I start Sport Pilot training tomorrow!

bullwinkle

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Bullwinkle
I have been doing self-study ground school for about nine months, and tomorrow I start my flight training for my sport pilot certificate! I'll be training in an AMD Zodiac CH601XL. Any advice on training, that type of airplane, or anything else?
 
Good luck Bullwinkle! If this is your first foray into the world of flight you won't be able to wipe the grin off your face. Flying a new, modern LSA is an exhilarating experience. I fly Tecnam aircraft, but I've heard a lot of good things about the Zodiac. Enjoy the journey and keep us posted.
 
I have been doing self-study ground school for about nine months, and tomorrow I start my flight training for my sport pilot certificate! I'll be training in an AMD Zodiac CH601XL. Any advice on training, that type of airplane, or anything else?

Don't get so focused on the glass panel that you forget to look outside :)

Randy
 
Look outside, enjoy the view. :)

Don't get frustrated at things that take practice. Nobody is perfect at these things on the first try... especially landings. Patience will go a long way.

Most of all, have fun! :yes:
 
Good luck and more importantly, have fun! Jay Maynard can give you more info on the Zodiac itself. I've never flown one, but it looks like a fun little airplane!
 
Great to hear that another pilot is getting started on the journey. It's mostly fun but there will be a few frustrating moments along the way. Ok, I had something more like frustrating hours rather than momemts but I'm hardheaded...anyway, hang in there. In twenty or thirty hours you'll be passing the first check ride.

As far as advise goes, just remind yourself to relax and don't hesitate to talk through procedures with your instructor when things don't seem to go right.

Post your progess here if you feel like it. Most (all?) of the posters here have been through it so we can celebrate or commiserate with you.
 
bullwinkle, congratulations! You'll wish you'd done it a long time ago.

The Zodiac is a nice airplane to fly, once you get used to how it handles. This is much more of a change for folks who are used to flying other aircraft with different flying qualities; since you're starting from scratch in it, you won't have any problems. Just remember that you're not moving the controls, but rather pushing on them, and you'll do fine.

I'll echo other comments here: The XL you'll be flying most likely has a nice Dynon glass panel. Don't stare at it, as you'll probably want to do. You should be looking outside, both to keep the aircraft pointed where you want it and to watch for other aircraft. Look around. Enjoy the view. The Zodiac's bubble canopy makes that even easier than it is in a lot of other aircraft.

The sport pilot license is listed as taking a minimum of 20 hours of flying. Don't worry if it looks like you won't get done in that short a time. You're learning a whole new skill, and it'll seem hard for what feels like forever until, one day, you'll just magically get it. Keep after it, and don't get discouraged.

You'll also be doing things that you didn't expect. Don't let them scare you; everything you do during training is safe, even when it seems like you're pushing the edge of falling out of the sky. The Zodiac is a docile airplane at the edges, and you'll know it long before you get in trouble.

Where are you flying out of? There are more and more Zodiacs available for training these days, but they're still kinda scarce; there are lots of homebuilts, but less than 100 factory-built airplanes (including mine).

Have fun, and let us know how it goes.
 
Thanks for the encouragement everyone! Jay, I'm flying out of Gwinnett Briscoe Field near Atlanta, KLZU.

I'm not worried about getting frustrated, I figure that's all part of the experience...anything new and strange will feel hard at first. I can't wait!
 
This is ironic I too have talked to Eric @KLZU about flight training in the Zodiac. I will probably start in Feb or Mar. Let us know how it goes especially with Eric as an instructor. I live about 5 minutes away from there. Good luck and have fun.
 
This is ironic I too have talked to Eric @KLZU about flight training in the Zodiac. I will probably start in Feb or Mar. Let us know how it goes especially with Eric as an instructor. I live about 5 minutes away from there. Good luck and have fun.

Will do! I'll post in this thread after my first lesson tomorrow and let you know how it goes. I took a disco flight with Eric a few months ago, he seemed a pretty good guy.
 
Congrats to both of you and keep us posted! I am always excited to hear about new pilots in the making.
 
LZU has a controller whose name I cannot recall. He has a real, down home accent and fits right into Jawjuh.

Somehow, I can't imagine him clearing a "disco flight." :)
 
Okay, flight completed!

First impressions of the AMD CH601XL:

1) It's small. Think really small and then subtract 10% from that. The cockpit makes my friend's Miata look spacious. At full deflection the stick hits my knees on either side. You can only load one person at a time, to avoid tipping it back on its tail. So, okay...SMALL.

2) It's responsive. Almost to the point of "twitchy." I had been warned that it was sensitive in pitch, but I'd say it's just sensitive overall, maybe a little more so in pitch. When I pulled back to rotate on takeoff I overcontrolled it and we took off like a rocket. lLuckily it seemed to not mind too much (the freezing temps helped there for sure). Once I figured it out I was okay with it.

3) It's drafty! N130AW has a small hole in the rear bottom of the canopy due to somebody incorrectly slamming it shut. Even if that had not been the case, the vents don't really seal shut and the cabin heat is barely worthy of the name. We could see our breath the entire flight!

4) It is highly susceptible to wind/turbulence. ATIS reported "wind calm", but we still got shoved around a few times, occasionally causing a wing to dip quite a bit. This is probably an issue with this entire class of aircraft, but it does dampen the fun a small amount. I can't imagine flying this plane in even moderate turbulence or gusty winds. Eric (instructor) confirmed his wind tolerance for going up in the Zodiac is much less than for even a C172.

5) It has nice avionics. Dynon glass, Garmin 496 with traffic from a GTX330 transponder, and an autopilot. Plenty of toys, though I will be ignoring most of them for quite a while to just learn to fly the darned thing.

Eric said I did really well, and was able to hold my altitude very well (usually within 50ft). Airspeed stayed right around 90 knots unless I let the pitch wander. I couldn't hold a heading very well by the glass, but once I started picking landmarks outside to steer by I did much better with that.

So, 1.2 hours in a Zodiac, my logbook now has 1.7hrs total. Woo-hoo! You gotta start somewhere. I have Monday off for MLK day, so up I go again. :thumbsup:
 
1) It's small. Think really small and then subtract 10% from that. The cockpit makes my friend's Miata look spacious. At full deflection the stick hits my knees on either side. You can only load one person at a time, to avoid tipping it back on its tail. So, okay...SMALL.
Small for a car, true, but not that small for an airplane. The seats are the same size as two first class seats on an Airbus A320, at least in the Northwest Airlines incarnation. As long as you can reach the rudder pedals, and your knees don't hit the panel, it should be fine - and it's more comfortable for long flights than you might think at first.

2) It's responsive. Almost to the point of "twitchy." I had been warned that it was sensitive in pitch, but I'd say it's just sensitive overall, maybe a little more so in pitch. When I pulled back to rotate on takeoff I overcontrolled it and we took off like a rocket. lLuckily it seemed to not mind too much (the freezing temps helped there for sure). Once I figured it out I was okay with it.
Yup. Remember what I said about pushing on the controls instead of moving them? It's all about how hard you push. Don't push hard and it won't change attitude as much.

3) It's drafty! N130AW has a small hole in the rear bottom of the canopy due to somebody incorrectly slamming it shut. Even if that had not been the case, the vents don't really seal shut and the cabin heat is barely worthy of the name. We could see our breath the entire flight!
There are a few things you can do to improve this. The biggest is to put a couple of pieces of foam on the canopy itself right at the corner where it meets up with the panel. You can also stick a couple of pieces of foam in the canopy frame tubes (the square ones) right at the front, to keep air from blowing in there and back out right by your shoulders. You're right about the heat, unfortunately, but most light aircraft heaters don't work all that well.

4) It is highly susceptible to wind/turbulence. ATIS reported "wind calm", but we still got shoved around a few times, occasionally causing a wing to dip quite a bit. This is probably an issue with this entire class of aircraft, but it does dampen the fun a small amount. I can't imagine flying this plane in even moderate turbulence or gusty winds. Eric (instructor) confirmed his wind tolerance for going up in the Zodiac is much less than for even a C172.
This is due to the required low wing loading to get the stall speed down to the LSA maximum. LSAs as a class are like this. I find myself climbing as much as I can to get above the turbulence.

5) It has nice avionics. Dynon glass, Garmin 496 with traffic from a GTX330 transponder, and an autopilot. Plenty of toys, though I will be ignoring most of them for quite a while to just learn to fly the darned thing.
Exactly. Your eyes should be outside the cockpit.

Eric said I did really well, and was able to hold my altitude very well (usually within 50ft). Airspeed stayed right around 90 knots unless I let the pitch wander.
This is what trim is for. The pitch trim in the Zodiac is quite sensitive. I find myself adjusting it by just pecking at it. A little goes a long, long way.

I couldn't hold a heading very well by the glass, but once I started picking landmarks outside to steer by I did much better with that.
Yup. The same goes for the pitch attitude and keeping the wings level, too.

So, 1.2 hours in a Zodiac, my logbook now has 1.7hrs total. Woo-hoo! You gotta start somewhere. I have Monday off for MLK day, so up I go again. :thumbsup:
Sounds like you got a good start. Keep it up!
 
Small for a car, true, but not that small for an airplane. The seats are the same size as two first class seats on an Airbus A320, at least in the Northwest Airlines incarnation. As long as you can reach the rudder pedals, and your knees don't hit the panel, it should be fine - and it's more comfortable for long flights than you might think at first.

Yeah, I didn't find it "uncomfortable" per se...just cramped. Honestly, I was pretty comfortable, except for the frigid cold. I was wearing gloves; I don't know how my CFI survived, since we wasn't wearing any.

Yup. Remember what I said about pushing on the controls instead of moving them? It's all about how hard you push. Don't push hard and it won't change attitude as much.
It makes more sense now. You really just push slightly against the resistance more than make any actual deflection, as you say. I found this particularly true of the rudder pedals; I never actually felt them deflect, but the rudder was definitely working!

There are a few things you can do to improve this. The biggest is to put a couple of pieces of foam on the canopy itself right at the corner where it meets up with the panel. You can also stick a couple of pieces of foam in the canopy frame tubes (the square ones) right at the front, to keep air from blowing in there and back out right by your shoulders. You're right about the heat, unfortunately, but most light aircraft heaters don't work all that well.
Thanks for those tips, they make save me a trip to the ER for frostbite! :eek:

This is due to the required low wing loading to get the stall speed down to the LSA maximum. LSAs as a class are like this. I find myself climbing as much as I can to get above the turbulence.
I figured as much...hard to fight physics.

This is what trim is for. The pitch trim in the Zodiac is quite sensitive. I find myself adjusting it by just pecking at it. A little goes a long, long way.
I made good use of the trim...as you say, I'd just stab is as quickly as I could and *boom* up/down goes the nose.

Sounds like you got a good start. Keep it up!
Thanks...looking forward to the next flight Monday!
 
Bullwinkle - thanks for telling us about your flight and keep us posted! Welcome to PoA!

I was checked out in a Sky Arrow 600 Sport at Cobb County (Kennesaw, GA) with Hansen Air Group. That plane as well as the other sport planes I've flown are a bit more sensitive on the controls than a 172, but that's also part of their appeal. Once you're used to it you hardly notice it anymore, then when you switch to something heavier you think, "Come on, move, you big brick!" :)

I rode in Jay's Zodiac -- what a great view out of that plane, and nice performance. Not bad at all. I think it would be fun to learn to fly in one.
 
Glad to hear about your successful first lesson. I second Jay's comments - your general impressions of the Zodiac are generally how I felt when I had the opportunity to fly in Jay's.

Excellent write-up, and keep at it! You'll be there before you know it! :yes:
 
One comment regarding controls - the light controls do take a bit of getting used to, but in my opinion they are preferable. The Mooney I fly has extremely heavy controls. The plane is also very stable, but it's annoying to be fighting turbulence (especially when that comes with crosswinds on a landing), and also have to be fighting the controls to make the plane do what you want it to. Really, when the plane will just go ahead and do what you want it to with minimal work, I find that preferable.

Not saying I don't love the Mooney, but I was thinking about this and it came to mind, having just gotten back from a flight with crosswinds and turbulence that I had to fight with the heavy controls. My arms are tired (no joke)!
 
Should I tell you about the time my Instructor and I were returning to LZU, in that very plane, from WDR after shooting touch & gos for a while and had a flat tire when we landed at LZU. Actually, now that I think about it, we had been practicing all kinds of emergency procedures too!

Congratulations on your first lesson. Sounds like you're pretty pumped up. Make sure you can fly pretty regularly, at least once a week and two if you can. Have fun!!

Randy
 
It makes more sense now. You really just push slightly against the resistance more than make any actual deflection, as you say. I found this particularly true of the rudder pedals; I never actually felt them deflect, but the rudder was definitely working!
You'll be thankful for that effective rudder when it comes time to learn how to do crosswind landings. I've landed in 25-knot crosswinds before with little trouble. The factory test pilot told me he's landed in a 38-knot direct crosswind; I wouldn't push it that far, but I can believe the airplane would handle it.

I made good use of the trim...as you say, I'd just stab is as quickly as I could and *boom* up/down goes the nose.
Your instructor will likely get after you about that in another few hours...that's not quite the best way to find the proper trim. Fortunately, the flip side of the Zodiac's trim being sensitive is that it's pretty easy to find the proper setting with just a little poking.
 
Congrats on getting started! Maybe we can arrange a get together at LZU one of these days. Does the Flying Machine have a stocked fridge now? Last time I went they were out of all the steaks. :rofl:
 
Hey all...lesson 2 today, standard rate turns and descents. Still having trouble holding a heading very well, and rolling out on heading from a turn but Eric assures me that will come with experience.

One point of excitement: the first time we did a simulated landing decent, as directed I reduced throttle from 2300rpm to 1700rpm. Nose dropped normally and I retrimmed from 85kts to 65kts. Then I added some flaps...nose dropped more. I pulled back on the stick and retrimmed again, then added the rest of the flaps. BAM the nose dropped sharply, and I didn't pull back the stick quickly enough and Eric had to take over. We busted the 80kt max flap speed by a few knots before Eric levelled it. Oops. That got my heart going. Apparently the flaps don't create enough drag in the Zodiac to really slow you much in a nose down attitude... :nonod:

Other than that, good lesson. Next lesson is stalls next Saturday...I'm sure that will give even more palpitations... :eek:
 
Stalls are not a worry as they are a normal part of every flight (at the very end). Yup, ya have to learn to steer and level the wings with your feet - it's a good habit to get into. I like slow flight 'cause it seems like you're just sort of motorboating around the sky - mush off to the left, much off to the right, tease it into a slow climb, rein it back in a slow descent. After all that ya get to do the stall series. :smile: Does the 601 have much of a nose drop?

As with everything else, practice practice practice.

I didn't fly for a month 'cause of an electrical problem that was difficult to track down (and neither the A&P nor I had a lot of time to work on it) and it seemed like I lost all my skills. It was practice practice practice for me this weekend....
 
:smile: Does the 601 have much of a nose drop?

Yes! I was expecting a little pitch up with flaps, but the 601 pitches down pretty hard with full flaps. I did much better the second time when I was expecting it!
 
Ahhh, I was curious 'bout the nose drop in the stall. I've flown a couple LSA and they seemed pretty docile. The Gobosh just sort of mushed along - not even a falling leaf. I'll swear that it won't drop a wing. The Remos had a break, as I recall, but it wasn't much of an attention "getter." I was about half a ball off on an approach stall and all it took was a little rudder to control it. (The check pilot did flinch a bit until he realized I could recover it.)

Anyway, stalls are no big deal, just keep it coordinated and enjoy the ride. If ya want a little fun ask your instructor to demonstrate a trim stall...:D I thought we were going over on our back the first time I rode through one.
 
Ahhh, I was curious 'bout the nose drop in the stall. I've flown a couple LSA and they seemed pretty docile. The Gobosh just sort of mushed along - not even a falling leaf. I'll swear that it won't drop a wing. The Remos had a break, as I recall, but it wasn't much of an attention "getter." I was about half a ball off on an approach stall and all it took was a little rudder to control it. (The check pilot did flinch a bit until he realized I could recover it.)

Anyway, stalls are no big deal, just keep it coordinated and enjoy the ride. If ya want a little fun ask your instructor to demonstrate a trim stall...:D I thought we were going over on our back the first time I rode through one.

I'll be able to report on stall behavior after Saturday morning... :smile:
 
Yes! I was expecting a little pitch up with flaps, but the 601 pitches down pretty hard with full flaps. I did much better the second time when I was expecting it!
I fly the pattern by slowing to 80 knots on downwind, then putting in half flaps abeam the numbers and slowing to 65 knots, and the remaining flaps on base and holding 65 knots. I find it takes about half-scale nose up trim with half flaps at 65 knots, and full nose up trim with full flaps. The Zodiac does indeed have a strong nose down pitching moment with flaps, but if you know it's coming, it's easy to deal with.

I routinely use flaps on landing, but when I first had the airplane, I routinely did not. The flaps don't add much drag at all.

In the stall, the Zodiac doesn't have a break at all with flaps up; it just mushes. (The factory demo pilot's favorite demonstration of this is to slow it down, pull the stick into his lap, and hold it there with his knees while twiddling his thumbs!) It'll break with full flaps, but it's not hard to control. Make sure to keep the wings level with the rudder. That huge, all-flying rudder will come to your assistance there, because it's got all the authority you could ever want.
 
I fly the pattern by slowing to 80 knots on downwind, then putting in half flaps abeam the numbers and slowing to 65 knots, and the remaining flaps on base and holding 65 knots. I find it takes about half-scale nose up trim with half flaps at 65 knots, and full nose up trim with full flaps. The Zodiac does indeed have a strong nose down pitching moment with flaps, but if you know it's coming, it's easy to deal with.

I routinely use flaps on landing, but when I first had the airplane, I routinely did not. The flaps don't add much drag at all.

In the stall, the Zodiac doesn't have a break at all with flaps up; it just mushes. (The factory demo pilot's favorite demonstration of this is to slow it down, pull the stick into his lap, and hold it there with his knees while twiddling his thumbs!) It'll break with full flaps, but it's not hard to control. Make sure to keep the wings level with the rudder. That huge, all-flying rudder will come to your assistance there, because it's got all the authority you could ever want.

That's what my instructor said; the Zodiac just loves to mush along.

BTW, what speed do you use for climb out? The book says Vy is 65kts, but my instructor likes 70kts+ better...he says at 65 it's a little too close to stall in the nose high attitude and the stall horn often blares through the climb at that speed.
 
BTW, what speed do you use for climb out? The book says Vy is 65kts, but my instructor likes 70kts+ better...he says at 65 it's a little too close to stall in the nose high attitude and the stall horn often blares through the climb at that speed.
I fly off the runway at 60, accelerate to 70 pretty much immediately (delaying only for obstacle clearance), and then accelerate to 80 when I'm past the immediate rush of getting things done and getting clear of the pattern. I then climb the rest of the way to cruise altitude at 80 or maybe a little lower. The airplane definitely likes to climb out faster than 70, especially when it's heavily loaded. If I'm staying in the pattern, I'll turn crosswind at about 600 AGL and past the end of the runway, and be at the 800 AGL pattern altitude very shortly thereafter; I'll power back to 2000 RPM and maintain 80 knots until it's time to descend again unless there's a good reason not to.
 
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I fly off the runway at 60, accelerate to 70 pretty much immediately (delaying only for obstacle clearance), and then accelerate to 80 when I'm past the immediate rush of getting things done and getting clear of the pattern. I then climb the rest of the way to cruise altitude at 80 or maybe a little lower. The airplane definitely likes to climb out faster than 70, especially when it's heavily loaded. If I'm staying in the pattern, I'll turn crosswind at about 600 AGL and past the end of the runway, and be at the 800 AGL pattern altitude very shortly thereafter; I'll power back to 2000 RPM and maintain 80 knots until it's time to descend again unless there's a good reason not to.

That makes sense. One thing I notice is that the Zodiac jumps off the runway pretty smartly, much more so than the 172 I flew once. 60kt is where I rotate as well, and if I blink after that I'll miss 70kt. It does seem elevator authority is a bit reduced at rotation, it takes more back pressure to get the nose up than it does in cruise flight.

We cruise at 90-95kt at about 2300rpm.
 
It does seem elevator authority is a bit reduced at rotation, it takes more back pressure to get the nose up than it does in cruise flight.

This is the case for all of your control surfaces. The control surfaces work by deflecting air. Since less air is traveling over the control surfaces when you're going slower, less air is deflected, and you require more input for the same response.

So, you've observed that the Zodiac obeys the laws of physics. This is a good thing. :)
 
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