I request help with planning an adventure across the northern tier.

Morgan3820

Morgan3820

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El Conquistador
I promised my Daughter a graduation trip and she has certainly earned it (3.92 GPA biochemistry, minor in classic languages). The details are 3 weeks next May in my Arrow II stopping at the national parks in the northern US. Leaving eastern NC and starting, I think, with the Badlands, Wind caves in SD, then Yellowstone, Grand Tetons, Glacier, Teddy Roosevelt, Voyagers, Isle Royal. I know that there is a lot more to see but her goal is to visit all of the national parks. I had thought about continuing to the west coast and the parks in the NW but I don't think that the time allotted will allow for that.
I have never been to this part of the country either so it will be an adventure for both of us. I am seeking experienced advice regarding flying up there, accommodations, ground transportation, what to see/avoid. And anything else that might help.
Because of her future plans, I expect this to be the last opportunity to have this large a chunk of time with her, so I want to make the best of it.
Thank you.
 
I am planning something similar from central NC to ND, MT, ID and WA, with the destination being Olympic National Park. Looking for some guidance on the routes through the high country. We will be coming back hopefully around Mt Rainier & St Helens, then onto the Tetons/Yellowstone and probably Badlands/Rushmore. We were a bit late in planning, so Olypmpic was the only NP available. If you are starting now, you should be able to reserve spots (and car passes) in Glacier, etc. I will post back what I find out.
 
I have been through or flown over most of these. That is a lot of items to discuss but you have time to plan it out. Sounds like a great trip.

One thing to know about Isle Royale is that there is no airport or motorized transport on the island. So you will need to travel there by ferry or seaplane.

If before Memorial Day, you will be able to avoid some of the worst crowds in Yellowstone.
 
I think one has to plan the extended stops to get the most out of a few days. Many sites can be done with ‘fly-overs’. We were just in the ‘Badlands’ a few weeks ago, ground vehicle. The scenery was great, but a flight through would of been enough.

No sense to spend the effort to get to Isle Royal unless the trip is prepped & planned for a few days. A flight stop on Mackinac Island makes more sense.
 
So. How does a visit to a national park work? I’ve been to the Shenandoah national park just seem to drive through your own car. The only way you know where you are in a national park is when you read the sign. Are the other ones different I heard vehicle passes mentioned.Do you need tickets?
 
Did something similar in April. We flew down the east coast and across the gulf out to Arizona. We stopped in Carlsbad, NM and the FBO had low cost rental cars for a trip to the caverns. We pack a tent and have often camped on the ramp, or you can FBO Hobo in the pilot lounge. Youe can do a lot of research on AirNav.com to plan a route and check out what the FBOs offer. A lot of small airport have motels close to the entry road, although you may want to camp after seeing what the motel looks like.
 
Morgan3820 said:
I promised my Daughter a graduation trip and she has certainly earned it (3.92 GPA biochemistry, minor in classic languages). The details are 3 weeks next May in my Arrow II stopping at the national parks in the northern US. Leaving eastern NC and starting, I think, with the Badlands, Wind caves in SD, then Yellowstone, Grand Tetons, Glacier, Teddy Roosevelt, Voyagers, Isle Royal. I know that there is a lot more to see but her goal is to visit all of the national parks. I had thought about continuing to the west coast and the parks in the NW but I don't think that the time allotted will allow for that.
I have never been to this part of the country either so it will be an adventure for both of us. I am seeking experienced advice regarding flying up there, accommodations, ground transportation, what to see/avoid. And anything else that might help.
Because of her future plans, I expect this to be the last opportunity to have this large a chunk of time with her, so I want to make the best of it.
Thank you.
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Real mountain flying experience?
 
Near Glacier N.P. I took a mountain-flying lesson. Great place for it, with low elevation yet nice mountains. You could repurpose such a lesson to be more of a guided tour so that your daughter enjoys it, with three aboard in your plane.

I also enjoyed a helicopter tour of Glacier National Park.
 
Theodore Roosevelt National Park has three units, two main units (North and South) and the smaller Elkhorn Ranch. A vehicle pass for one unit is good for all of them, but I think your trip calls for the $80 annual pass that covers all the parks. Don't forget to get the National Parks passport book and get a stamp at each park you visit.

S25 is the airport for the North Unit (15 road miles) and 20U is the best bet for the South Unit (24 road miles). Both have courtesy cars. Of the two, S25 has better hotel and dining options, but the South Unit is more popular because it is on I-94 and is next to the historic town of Medora, which offers experiences ranging from great locally made fudge and saltwater taffy to the nightly pitchfork fondue and Medora Musical, which is worth going to for the amphitheater view alone. In either unit of the park, you are all but guaranteed to see prairie dogs and bison, even if you only drive through. If you want to go a little farther down the road and see a National Historic Site, Fort Union is awesome and nearby Fort Buford can be fun as well. The former is a rebuilt fur trading post.

There are some great hikes of various lengths in the North Unit, or you can go all-out and hike or bicycle the Maah Daah Hey Trail for about 120 miles between the North and South Units. (Bikes and dogs are prohibited on trails in the park and the MDH is free and dog-friendly so I hike portions of it regularly instead of entering the park.)

Please keep in mind that the POA rules of conduct prohibit flying through this area without showing me your airplane.

As far as the route, other than the Black Hills in SD there isn't any terrain to be concerned with until you get halfway across Montana or Wyoming. The prior owner of my Arrow flew it from western ND to KMSO several times without trouble and I would imagine KGPI or S27 are similar. The bigger challenge is just the sheer distance. Montana alone is almost 500 nm wide. You will also want to brace yourself for some wind.
 
Morgan3820 said:
So. How does a visit to a national park work? I’ve been to the Shenandoah national park just seem to drive through your own car. The only way you know where you are in a national park is when you read the sign. Are the other ones different I heard vehicle passes mentioned.Do you need tickets?
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Seems odd you have never been in one of the more controlled ones.

There is often an entrance gate and you need to buy a pass to enter. In this case you will likely want to get an annual pass for all the parks. About $80. https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/passes.htm
 
sourdough44 said:
We were just in the ‘Badlands’ a few weeks ago, ground vehicle. The scenery was great, but a flight through would of been enough.
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Personally, I really like the Badlands from the ground. Getting out and hiking a bit reveals a lot of cool, almost unworldly, geology. There is a great deal of wildlife to see.

Mt Rushmore is also worth seeing, though it's not a place at which people typically spend a lot of time. The unfinished Crazy Horse monument isn't too far away. It'll still be unfinished when your daughter is flying her college grads around on a National Park tour.
 
@Radar Contact I just heard on your most recent video about the West Coast Swing! Exciting. I was hoping it would be before my trip so I could see your route, but alas, its not. Happy to share my experience as well.
 
kiltedpiper said:
@Radar Contact I just heard on your most recent video about the West Coast Swing! Exciting. I was hoping it would be before my trip so I could see your route, but alas, its not. Happy to share my experience as well.
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I’ll be looking forward to hearing about yours and picking up some pointers!
 
If you are up around the Duluth area I really like the Two Harbors (KTWM) airport. Nice long runway. And if you contact the airport guy in advance they will reserve a airport car for you :)

Landing at Duluth (KDLH a delta) is nice and the Cirrus are made there. I think there is some type of museum or tour. Nice FBO and not far from downtown.

If you are crossing Minnesota up in the northern half, my favorite airport is Brainerd (KBRD). Two nice long runways and restaurant right on the field which is rare for Minnesota.

Going west from Minnesota I really like the Sioux Falls airport (KFSD) and the Pierre (KPIR) airports of which only one will be on your way. Maverick FBO in Sioux Falls is awesome. To me, the Midwest starts to become the Outwest up north right at Pierre and hence their slogan at Mustang Aviation. Nice FBO. And the scenery with the Missouri and the large dam and lake is awesome. Plus, departing Pierre leaves about 50min to Rapid City. Which is perfect to get on with Ellsworth Approach and have them Vector to Mt.Rushmore and Crazy Horse. To me, from the air Crazy horse is more impressive. You can flight directly across from it. We just circled around it and this tiny mountain to the east several times. Very cool.

The FBO at Rapid City (KRAP) is very nice. More importantly, its a regional commuter airport so there is a standard rental car building literally like 2 blocks walk from the FBO. The downside to KRAP is that it is a long ways from the downtown. If you get a car at KRAP and want to double back on I-90 to the east about an hour or so you can see badlands and its really cool.

The other way to see the badlands in that area is to land at Wall (6V4). Plus this is the "Wall Drugstore" that is a staple of that area. The airport is pretty close to town. Just not sure if they have a car. But you are literally just a few miles from the best entrance to the Badlands, awesome pictures, etc.

Also by Wall are (3) Minute Man missile silo museum sites. One is a view of a silo. One I think is a tour of a launch facility. And One is a actual Museum which is very nice. As the land slowly passed you by in the area (to the north of the I90) you might start spotting all the old decommission silo sites.

Personally, I think one of the best places to land is Spearfish (KSPF).

We were just out there (driving trip). If there is any way you can see Devils Tower from the air I bet it is awesome. But find a way, even if it means driving a car from Spearfish, to go and see it directly.

Custer (KCUT) is also a great airport in a great location!

We did the Jewel Caves and it was awesome. I think the Wind Caves are also awesome but they are different. We did not care for the Mammoth part of the trip.

If you do the Needles Highway drive from south towards Mt.Rushmore, you will drive through a couple of carved out short tunnels. IIRC, both directly face "The Faces" which makes for a great camera shot or video clip.

Keystone is at the base of Mt.Rushmore and has a few western themed restaurants.

The best light is on Mt.Rushmore in the morning.

The Mt.Rushmore guided talk down in the artists/creators building was really cool.

I've driven it more than flown it. Coming from the east as you get to KRAP you will start to see some pretty high DA's as compared to the flatlands...maybe good practice for going farther west!

If you decide to cut the northern part out and are going for time across the Twin Cities area, there is a great restuaurant on the field at Eau Claire (KEAU) and a even better one right on the field at downtown St.Paul (KSTP) call Holman's Table.

The early evening flying out here is awesome...especially if your plane isn't broke :(
 
I'm thinking of doing Yellowstone and some of the ones on the way next summer, so I'll be following this thread.

We just got back from voyageurs. There's really no way to see it without a boat. We did 3 days on a houseboat, which was about right. If you didn't want the experience of camping, you could see most of it in a day or two on a powerboat. It's beautiful, but islands with trees start to look the same after you've seen enough of them. We used Voyagaire who run a lodge and boat rental outfit on the south half of the park. They picked us up at KORB for $150 round trip. It's about a half hour drive. The park is split into two by a dam at kettle falls, where there's a historic hotel. The outfitters on the north half are pretty close to International Falls.

The folks at voyagaire said they're already getting booked up into next summer. I suspect all the NPs are similar, so we both probably need to start making plans yesterday.
 
Parks in the West(and I assume elsewhere) are way over-crowded. As are campgrounds located near the parks, hotels, etc. It is just crazy. We start making a list in August of places to go for the following year, and then book ASAP. Being semi-retired we have a lot of flexibility but it is still extremely difficult. Some reservation systems let you book 9 months out; some 6 and still others have a 30 day rolling period. Glacier and Yellowstone are very difficult and you now need a separate pass for the Road to the Sun. West Yellowstone Airport (KWYS) does have a small campground on the airport that might be fun for an overnight stay.
 
Radar Contact said:
Will probably reach out here to people that live that way for route suggestions soon
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Hit me up if you do. I live basically directly under JABVU.

iamtheari said:
Theodore Roosevelt National Park has three units, two main units (North and South) …
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Lots of good info here. I personally liked the north unit better than the south as the Badlands are more dramatic there. It also allows for @iamtheari to cash in on wanting to see your plane

Jumpmaster said:
Parks in the West(and I assume elsewhere) are way over-crowded. As are campgrounds located near the parks, hotels, etc. It is just crazy. We start making a list in August of places to go for the following year, and then book ASAP. Being semi-retired we have a lot of flexibility but it is still extremely difficult. Some reservation systems let you book 9 months out; some 6 and still others have a 30 day rolling period. Glacier and Yellowstone are very difficult and you now need a separate pass for the Road to the Sun. West Yellowstone Airport (KWYS) does have a small campground on the airport that might be fun for an overnight stay.
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That’s what I love about our hidden gem in ND. No crowds at TRNP for the most part
 
Jumpmaster said:
Parks in the West(and I assume elsewhere) are way over-crowded. As are campgrounds located near the parks, hotels, etc. It is just crazy. We start making a list in August of places to go for the following year, and then book ASAP. Being semi-retired we have a lot of flexibility but it is still extremely difficult. Some reservation systems let you book 9 months out; some 6 and still others have a 30 day rolling period. Glacier and Yellowstone are very difficult and you now need a separate pass for the Road to the Sun. West Yellowstone Airport (KWYS) does have a small campground on the airport that might be fun for an overnight stay.
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That’s why you fly over at 2001’ AGL & call it good.
 
I don't have much to add to this, other than to say my boys and I flew to Rapid City last summer, and had a blast! We departed the Des Moines area, so flew over plenty of the Badlands. I remember seeing the area by car on a trip with my parents some 45 years ago, and they haven't changed much, but definitely worth seeing at least once from the air. We landed at KRAP, rented a car at the FBO, and spent a few days at an AirBnB and did the tourist stuff on the ground. On departure -- it was about 90 degrees, and density altitude was definitely a factor, in a heavily loaded DA-40NG -- and we did a few orbits around Mt. Rushmore (minimum 2000 feet AGL and 1/2 mile away). Then did the same around Crazy Horse before heading back east.

That's as far west as I've flown, but I'd certainly add the area to your itinerary if at all possible. My boys, 12 and 14 at the time, thought it was the highlight of their summer!
 
I recently completed a 3 week trip from California to the east coast and back (end of May to mid-June). Everyone likes to paint these rosy pictures of these multi-day continuous trips but my experience was not. In fact, by the end I had had enough.

Eating properly turned into a big challenge. Trying to eat a regular breakfast, lunch and dinner pretty much never happened on the trip. Sure, some airports have courtesy cars, but many do not. Eating around lunch time rarely happened on my trip. Breakfast was another problem. Dinner 90% of the time was junk food from some crappy fast food joint. This is no big deal for a day or two, but after a week or two this gets old.

The amount and length of weather delays was far more than I anticipated. I'm not IFR so this may be less of a concern, but it will still affect you. Sitting in some crappy hotel in some town in the middle of nowhere for 4 days in a row gets old fast.

The weather for almost my entire 3 week flight was turbulent, low visibility, and stressful. Basically, it sucked. I probably had 3 days out of 3 weeks where I actually enjoyed the flight. The rest of the many hours was not fun at all.

The constant adjustments to to flight planning, diversions, finding food, finding places to stay each night, verifying airports and fuel, updated weather briefings, trying to find a place to buy essentials, takes a significant amount of time. You can try and pre-plan your days but this goes out the window once you you leave the ground on your first day. This takes a major effort every day.

Getting from your airport to food or hotel is another challenge. Many airports do not have courtesy cars. Many towns do not have Uber or taxis. Most hotels will not come and pick you up at the airport. I had an electric scooter which I had to use on many occasions.

My personal experience was that this was not something I would want to share with my spouse, son, or friend. They would probably end up hating me for it. As a pilot it WAS an adventure. But it was also long, stressful ordeal.
 
I'm on my... Well, at least third trip across the northern tier states via GA. First was solo, second and third with my wife and son - He was about 2.5 years old on the 2nd and is 4.5 years old this time, so I tried to break it up a little.

I've gotta say, the Fagen Fighters WWII Museum at Granite Falls, MN KGDB is a hidden gem. We discovered it by accident on our last trip when we stopped in to buy some of the cheap fuel there, but this trip we planned a stop there. It is not the biggest museum I've ever been to, but it's definitely not the smallest either... And it is REALLY well done. They have a quonset hut briefing room, a control tower with period radio equipment and manuals, a restoration hangar you can peek into, and three hangars full of fighters plus a B-25. Some of their stuff is really unique: A restored, working Link trainer, a Waco CG-4A troop insertion glider, the aforementioned control tower, a Ford GPA amphibious jeep, and a D-Day display in one of the hangars with actual sand from Utah Beach. It's also one of the cleanest museums I've ever been to.

Highly recommend it as a good place to stop for a couple hours. They do have a courtesy car if you need to get some food, and like I mentioned before, cheap self-serve fuel.
 
BrianR said:
We landed at KRAP, rented a car at the FBO, and spent a few days at an AirBnB and did the tourist stuff on the ground. On departure -- it was about 90 degrees, and density altitude was definitely a factor, in a heavily loaded DA-40NG...
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So I guess you had a KRAPpy climb rate? :D
 
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