I need help with getting over a sensation

LoLPilot

LoLPilot

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LoLPilot
I need some help with getting over a fear of falling. I would like to get my CFI, and I need to do my spin endorsement to do that. I also want to get aerobatic training, not because I anticipate routinely flying aerobatics, but because I want to have that level of knowledge, confidence, and control in the flight envelope.

I hate the sensation of falling and weightlessness, though. I HATE rollercoasters, to the point where if I go to an amusement part with friends and they want to ride them I'm the person that says I'll hold your keys/wallets/whatever and see you at the end. I obviously need to get over that. I've had to get over some of it practicing the stalls in the PPL. I had a spin demonstrated for me with the acro instructor at my school, and when the pitch and roll initially happened I completely froze and closed my eyes until I felt positive G's again. Positive G's I'm fine with and I actually enjoy the sensation of being pressed back into the seat, but I really hate the feeling in your gut of weightlessness.

Any advice?
 
Sounds like something you’ll just have to get over. Not sure what kind of advice to offer you. Just keeping doing it?
 
Go get your USPA A license. Tons of fun, great social scene and it should fix your scared ways.

Look at it this way, as someone who deals with people close to meeting their maker, chances are it won’t be a plane that’s the instrument of your demise.
 
LoLPilot said:
I need some help with getting over a fear of falling. I would like to get my CFI, and I need to do my spin endorsement to do that. I also want to get aerobatic training, not because I anticipate routinely flying aerobatics, but because I want to have that level of knowledge, confidence, and control in the flight envelope.

I hate the sensation of falling and weightlessness, though. I HATE rollercoasters, to the point where if I go to an amusement part with friends and they want to ride them I'm the person that says I'll hold your keys/wallets/whatever and see you at the end. I obviously need to get over that. I've had to get over some of it practicing the stalls in the PPL. I had a spin demonstrated for me with the acro instructor at my school, and when the pitch and roll initially happened I completely froze and closed my eyes until I felt positive G's again. Positive G's I'm fine with and I actually enjoy the sensation of being pressed back into the seat, but I really hate the feeling in your gut of weightlessness.

Any advice?
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I don't know if this is any help, but keep in mind that you are in control of the plane. Maybe get some conditioning at Great Flags or another of the reputable amusement parks, start with small rides and work up.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I don't know if this is any help, but keep in mind that you are in control of the plane. Maybe get some conditioning at Great Flags or another of the reputable amusement parks, start with small rides and work up.
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I've thought about going to a "flags" amusement park - we have one near me - and starting with small drops like water rides and just doing those over and over until they don't bother me.... Then swallow my pride and ride the old, slow rollercoasters with the little kids :D. I have a friend who loves coasters and he told me he would go with me and badger me until I rode the biggest and baddest rides there.:rollercoaster:
 
LoLPilot said:
I had a spin demonstrated for me with the acro instructor at my school, and when the pitch and roll initially happened I completely froze and closed my eyes until I felt positive G's again. Positive G's I'm fine with and I actually enjoy the sensation of being pressed back into the seat, but I really hate the feeling in your gut of weightlessness.
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Funny, I'm the exact opposite. I love the weightlessness and could kill an entire weekend riding the stuff at Six Flags. I think my friend and I once many years ago rode Superman at Six Flags New England 7 times in one day (77 mph, 208 ft drop, etc.). The positive G's in a plane freak me out because A) I just imagine that massive force on the wings and B) if you brown / black out and lose control of the plane that can very well kill you. On the coasters the positive G's I tolerate, but they're generally unpleasant to me with the pressure on your back, neck, etc. I do believe I'm an outlier here as most people like the positive G's and hate the freefall, hence why most park rides just spin you and loop your round and round. No thanks. I'll pass on that
 
Tantalum said:
Funny, I'm the exact opposite. I love the weightlessness and could kill an entire weekend riding the stuff at Six Flags. I think my friend and I once many years ago rode Superman at Six Flags New England 7 times in one day (77 mph, 208 ft drop, etc.). The positive G's in a plane freak me out because A) I just imagine that massive force on the wings and B) if you brown / black out and lose control of the plane that can very well kill you. On the coasters the positive G's I tolerate, but they're generally unpleasant to me with the pressure on your back, neck, etc. I do believe I'm an outlier here as most people like the positive G's and hate the freefall, hence why most park rides just spin you and loop your round and round. No thanks. I'll pass on that
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Yeah my head felt light just looking at the thumbnail on the YouTube video of the Superman coaster! Roundy-rounds are the kind of stuff I think are fun. So we are the exact opposite in that regard!
 
@LoLPilot indeed we are! You would hate the Scream ride there.. it's just a big tower that drops you lol. In all seriousness, the "falling" thing may just be something you'll need to get used to. It will never go away, but you can get "used" to it if you are exposed to it enough. If you plan to fly often and seriously in your life (which it sounds like you will) then even some moderate turbulence in GA will give you that sensation pretty often. Imagine if you are a CFI and you spend your day with various students doing stalls, etc.

Sorry I don't have better advice, just something you'll have to get used to I guess

By the way, someone above brought up control. That's a great point, even when you're body's physiological response is "holy crap! we're falling!" you can still control the plane.. so that helps you to power through it. The plane itself is NOT falling, it is usually just a physics and momentum velocity thing where you're downwards acceleration matches that of gravity
 
Tantalum said:
@LoLPilot indeed we are! You would hate the Scream ride there.. it's just a big tower that drops you lol. In all seriousness, the "falling" thing may just be something you'll need to get used to. It will never go away, but you can get "used" to it if you are exposed to it enough. If you plan to fly often and seriously in your life (which it sounds like you will) then even some moderate turbulence in GA will give you that sensation pretty often. Imagine if you are a CFI and you spend your day with various students doing stalls, etc.

Sorry I don't have better advice, just something you'll have to get used to I guess

By the way, someone above brought up control. That's a great point, even when you're body's physiological response is "holy crap! we're falling!" you can still control the plane.. so that helps you to power through it. The plane itself is NOT falling, it is usually just a physics and momentum velocity thing where you're downwards acceleration matches that of gravity
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Well I've gotten used to turbulence. When I restarted after a year away I made a comment after my CFI and I hit some turbs that ws like "I need to get my flying butt back." He laughed at that.

And the control thing helped. That was actually what the acro instructor and I were doing was deep stalls - he was showing me, "watch, we can get this big wing drop and we can still control it. We are still flying the airplane even though we are mushing along and losing altitude." That really helped me with stalls. And once I "catch up" to the plane I'm usually perfectly fine. Turbs and stalls don't bother me anymore! The stuff like the spin and the zero G noseovers just seem a lot more "severe" and I'm wondering if I can get used to that!
 
LoLPilot said:
The stuff like the spin and the zero G noseovers just seem a lot more "severe" and I'm wondering if I can get used to that!
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You should with enough practice. You got used to the other stuff. Humans are pretty adaptable, especially if you have the will behind it. Cheers and good luck!
 
You need to join a shaming group where they give you **** repeatedly at the amusement parks until you man up and put on your big boy pants!
 
You're obsessing and stressing and overthinking. It happens. You say you were only demonstrated a spin. Much better to actually be flying the airplane yourself. You will get over your fear quickly just by doing it yourself a few times.
 
RoscoeT said:
You're obsessing and stressing and overthinking. It happens. You say you were only demonstrated a spin. Much better to actually be flying the airplane yourself. You will get over your fear quickly just by doing it yourself a few times.
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I think there may be something to this. I started my commercial work last week and I thought the chandelle was a weird feeling maneuver til I flew it. Then I thought it was fun and we did about four of them!

I really want to learn to do this stuff though. In addition to the fact that I think Aero is beautiful to watch, I like to explore the envelope and get better at new things and I'd like to learn how to control the aircraft throughout its capabilities.
 
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LoLPilot said:
I need some help with getting over a fear of falling. I would like to get my CFI, and I need to do my spin endorsement to do that. I also want to get aerobatic training, not because I anticipate routinely flying aerobatics, but because I want to have that level of knowledge, confidence, and control in the flight envelope.

I hate the sensation of falling and weightlessness, though. I HATE rollercoasters, to the point where if I go to an amusement part with friends and they want to ride them I'm the person that says I'll hold your keys/wallets/whatever and see you at the end. I obviously need to get over that. I've had to get over some of it practicing the stalls in the PPL. I had a spin demonstrated for me with the acro instructor at my school, and when the pitch and roll initially happened I completely froze and closed my eyes until I felt positive G's again. Positive G's I'm fine with and I actually enjoy the sensation of being pressed back into the seat, but I really hate the feeling in your gut of weightlessness.

Any advice?
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Face your fears, as this guy did: https://www.thriveglobal.com/stories/15644-overcoming-fear-with-aerobatic-pilot-sean-d-tucker
It's not easy, BTW, but it is doable. I think the issue is that with zero-to-negative G's, rather than just the feeling being uncomfortable, one feels as if they are not in control. I wasn't a fan of stalls or spins until circumstances arose that required me to face them. After about six or seven, it was no big deal, though still uncomfortable.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Face your fears, as this guy did: https://www.thriveglobal.com/stories/15644-overcoming-fear-with-aerobatic-pilot-sean-d-tucker
It's not easy, BTW, but it is doable. I think the issue is that with zero-to-negative G's, rather than just the feeling being uncomfortable, one feels as if they are not in control. I wasn't a fan of stalls or spins until circumstances arose that required me to face them. After about six or seven, it was no big deal, though still uncomfortable.
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Im planning on asking my tailwheel CFI to do some parabolic stuff with me. I read the article from Capt Geoff, and that subgrav sensitivity really sounds like me. Like I would describe it as borderline painful, like the sinking feeling in your gut after you get kicked in the nuts. I'm sure it's psychosomatic because I used to hate stalls and now they don't bother me. Turbs don't really bother me unless they're severe and sudden and even that is usually just a fraction of a second.
 
For what it's worth, I hate roller coasters. The last one I was on I forgot to breathe on the way up. I only realized it when I made a big gasp for air about halfway down the slope. I had no issues with some basic aerobatics (loops, rolls, hammerheads, etc.)
 
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skier said:
For what it's worth, I hate roller coasters. The last one I was on I forgot to breath on the way up. I only realized it when I made a big gasp for air about halfway down the slope. I had no issues with some basic aerobatics (loops, rolls, hammerheads, etc.)
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This makes me feel a bit better. The initial drop on coasters is what I don't like. Like I said I love positive G stuff. When the instructor demonstrated a spin for me I hated the pitching moment. After my body "caught up" to the plane I was fine and I giggled like a little kid when we pulled a couple G's on the recovery. Same thing with dives. In winter my first CFI and I practiced an emergency decent where we were well in the yellow and at about -2000 ft/min. I thought it was great fun except for the entry, which I hated.

So I guess I'm trying to find if there's anyone else out there who has the same apprehension/sensitivity and if you found a way to desensitize yourself. The first time I had a parabola demonstrated to me I almost stopped taking lessons, but I reminded myself how much I loved every other part of flying and I went back. I just don't want to be limited as to opportunities I could pursue for training and experiences by an irrational reaction to something, and I don't feel comfortable carrying passengers knowing that there is a situation that could arise where I become useless.
 
LoLPilot - it's (as you already know) a mental state. You just have to be self-aware that YOU are in control.

In California, there are a lot of people who are traumatized by earthquakes. One of the psychological ways of dealing with it is to pound on the ground with your feet or hands and command the earth to stop shaking. It seems silly, but people adjust better to an earthquake when the earthquake stops and they somehow feel they managed to command it to stop. (In a large earthquake, you may be yelling for 45 seconds to a minute and resort to borderline pleading and begging, but I'm told it still kind-of works.)

Maybe go to some of those smaller, more gentle rides and pretend you are in control of the roller coaster or that it's a flight. When you expect weightlessness, flex your abdomen muscles and grunt (like fighter pilots do) to try to force blood upwards in your torso. See if this helps with overcoming some of that free-fall/weightlessness fear.
 
steingar said:
I have no fear of falling whatsoever. I do have a rather sensible fear of impacting the ground at high speed.
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LOL! My wife claims she has a fear of heights, yet she can look out the window of an airplane at altitude (commercial as she won't fly with me. :eek: ) But I keep trying to tell her that she has no fear of heights if she can look out the window, but only a fear of that instantaneous deceleration if she were to fall out of the window. She doesn't seem to appreciate that guidance. o_O:rolleyes::p
 
Well I have my first tailwheel session this Saturday. That instructor is also the acro/spin instructor. I plan on telling him about the issue and we can see if he has any ideas, even if that's just to make me weightless until I get used to it.
 
LoLPilot said:
Well I have my first tailwheel session this Saturday. That instructor is also the acro/spin instructor. I plan on telling him about the issue and we can see if he has any ideas, even if that's just to make me weightless until I get used to it.
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Nah, overthinking again. I'm willing to bet after 3 spins flown on your own, you'll be good. Great move getting this training.
 
LoLPilot said:
I've thought about going to a "flags" amusement park - we have one near me - and starting with small drops like water rides and just doing those over and over until they don't bother me.... Then swallow my pride and ride the old, slow rollercoasters with the little kids :D. I have a friend who loves coasters and he told me he would go with me and badger me until I rode the biggest and baddest rides there.:rollercoaster:
Click to expand...

Think long and hard about the fact that the rollercoaster is on a track, and you are strapped into a car on that track, which has been engineered to do one thing one way, and that every car is only going to roll along that track at very specific speeds, with very specific accelerations, and being scared or being thrilled or being bored has zero effect on the rollercoaster and the outcome of the ride. Suddenly they're neither all that much fun to ride, and certainly not scary after that. If you're scared in an airplane that you are flying then you need a.) more instruction, b.) 5-point harnesses and a 'chute, c.) a good instructor sitting where they have access to flight controls, or d.) it's time for your balls to descend. ;) There may be a few situations I have omitted in the interest of brevity.
 
LoLPilot said:
I need some help with getting over a fear of falling. I would like to get my CFI, and I need to do my spin endorsement to do that. I also want to get aerobatic training, not because I anticipate routinely flying aerobatics, but because I want to have that level of knowledge, confidence, and control in the flight envelope.

I hate the sensation of falling and weightlessness, though. I HATE rollercoasters, to the point where if I go to an amusement part with friends and they want to ride them I'm the person that says I'll hold your keys/wallets/whatever and see you at the end. I obviously need to get over that. I've had to get over some of it practicing the stalls in the PPL. I had a spin demonstrated for me with the acro instructor at my school, and when the pitch and roll initially happened I completely froze and closed my eyes until I felt positive G's again. Positive G's I'm fine with and I actually enjoy the sensation of being pressed back into the seat, but I really hate the feeling in your gut of weightlessness.

Any advice?
Click to expand...

You do not go weightless in a spin....it is a one-G maneuver. You will feel your butt pressed against the seat.

Bob
 
bobmrg said:
You do not go weightless in a spin....it is a one-G maneuver. You will feel your butt pressed against the seat.

Bob
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It's not 0g, but when the stall breaks and the noses pitches over it is less than 1 g. Depending on the plane, you can start to feel light in the seat.

@LoLPilot, I can totally empathize. When I was younger that feeling of your gut coming out your throat scared the hell out of me and I didn't do big roller coasters until I was 13. I still don't like it, but I've learned to deal with it and control my response, and decided that the enjoyment I get from the rest of it is worth the price of . For me it seems to be mostly about the feeling of losing control. I was finally able to get through it by deciding to act like it didn't bother me until it actually didn't bother me. I still don't like the sensation, but I decided not to mind it.

I once heard a story from a USAF instructor pilot about a student who would puke every time he flew a loop. It came down to his last flight, and the IP said "if you take off your mask and let go of the controls, I have to flunk you." The student puked into his mask, swallowed it back down, completed the flight, and passed. I figured if he can do that, I can get over just being a little scared.

The only advice I have is to find your inner John Wayne, tighten your lap belt, tighten your lap belt some more, and grit your way through it until you're used to it. Don't forget to tighten the lap belt a little more, too.

It helps to have a specific task to do. See exactly how long it takes to recover from the spin, and then practice stopping it after exactly 1, 1 1/2, 2, 2 1/2 turns, etc.
 
I hate roller coasters, high ladders, and balcony railings, but flying in a small aircraft doesn't bother me one bit in regards to heights. I'd say to get used to the sensation then just fly more. The other height stuff is kinda unrelated.
 
Eric Gleason said:
It's not 0g, but when the stall breaks and the noses pitches over it is less than 1 g. Depending on the plane, you can start to feel light in the seat.

@LoLPilot, I can totally empathize. When I was younger that feeling of your gut coming out your throat scared the hell out of me and I didn't do big roller coasters until I was 13. I still don't like it, but I've learned to deal with it and control my response, and decided that the enjoyment I get from the rest of it is worth the price of . For me it seems to be mostly about the feeling of losing control. I was finally able to get through it by deciding to act like it didn't bother me until it actually didn't bother me. I still don't like the sensation, but I decided not to mind it.

I once heard a story from a USAF instructor pilot about a student who would puke every time he flew a loop. It came down to his last flight, and the IP said "if you take off your mask and let go of the controls, I have to flunk you." The student puked into his mask, swallowed it back down, completed the flight, and passed. I figured if he can do that, I can get over just being a little scared.

The only advice I have is to find your inner John Wayne, tighten your lap belt, tighten your lap belt some more, and grit your way through it until you're used to it. Don't forget to tighten the lap belt a little more, too.

It helps to have a specific task to do. See exactly how long it takes to recover from the spin, and then practice stopping it after exactly 1, 1 1/2, 2, 2 1/2 turns, etc.
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I think that the task oriented stuff will help rather than just "being along for the ride." Like I didn't like stall practice until I made it a game. "How straight can I keep it? How few feet can I lose during recovery?" And after that it got better. The harness in the Decathlon is a 5 point with a huge padded lap belt with a ratchet strap. I am going to try and make sure that the lap belt and shoulder harnesses are super tight. When we have flown my instructor is like "you don't have to tighten the shoulder belts down so much - they're just to keep you from hitting your head" and I'm thinking "yeah but tight is comfortable!"

But @Eric Gleason I am glad to know that I'm not the only one that hates the gut feeling of sub G! And the "gut coming out your throat" feeling is one of the best descriptors I've heard. But you have managed to desensitize yourself to it somewhat?
 
RoscoeT said:
You're obsessing and stressing and overthinking. It happens. You say you were only demonstrated a spin. Much better to actually be flying the airplane yourself. You will get over your fear quickly just by doing it yourself a few times.
Click to expand...

I would second this. I was frightened of spins when it was demonstrated to me, but once I started doing them, now I wish I could do them all the time. Once you come to terms with the idea that you are in control of the airplane, most of the fear may disappear.
 
So, at first it was a new sensation, but then you were hooked on a feeling?
 
LoLPilot said:
But @Eric Gleason I am glad to know that I'm not the only one that hates the gut feeling of sub G! And the "gut coming out your throat" feeling is one of the best descriptors I've heard. But you have managed to desensitize yourself to it somewhat?
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In the airplane, yes, I'm mostly desensitized. It's come through making it task-oriented like you said. I'm so focused on the flying part that I don't notice it as much. It probably bothered me for the first times I did it because I was piloting less and riding more.

I also realized that part of my discomfort was the fact that I was (fruitlessly) fighting the sensation because I didn't like it. That got me focused on the sensations I didn't like and made me tense, and that's a recipe for discomfort. With roller coasters, I kind of prep for it and try to relax at the push over, and after that I don't mind it so much.
 
Eric Gleason said:
In the airplane, yes, I'm mostly desensitized. It's come through making it task-oriented like you said. I'm so focused on the flying part that I don't notice it as much. It probably bothered me for the first times I did it because I was piloting less and riding more.

I also realized that part of my discomfort was the fact that I was (fruitlessly) fighting the sensation because I didn't like it. That got me focused on the sensations I didn't like and made me tense, and that's a recipe for discomfort. With roller coasters, I kind of prep for it and try to relax at the push over, and after that I don't mind it so much.
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Ever seen the movie "RIPD?" There's a part where Jeff Bridges is teaching Ryan Reynolds how to get hit by a bus (just go with it if you've never seen the movie). He walked out into traffic, spreads his arms and says "relax body," right before the bus hits him. I did a pushover once where as I pulled power and pushed the yoke forward I said "relax body," as a reminder. Oddly, it helped.
 
LoLPilot,
Were you able to overcome these issues? I have the same issue and I’m wondering if it’s possible to proceed with being a pilot with these issues.
Thanks!
 
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