I need a lawyer!!!!!!!!!

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
Here is what its all about.

There is this really cool homebuilt out there for which plans used to be available. (that is the gist of this post; we can not get plans in the US for anything, despite a large following.)

It was designed in a european country.
The plans and a kit were distributed by a US dealer for a while, and this distributor altered the plans/kit to include - a fatal modification.
So; one crashes, kills the pilot, and the widow sues....the original designer! Not the US guy who altered this excellent design - but the innocent, out of country designer who had nothing to do with it!!
This lawsuit scares the cr@p out of him, costs a small fortune to defend, and guess what - now he won't let the plans go to ANY North American country! He sells to S.A., Europe, Asia, etc etc etc - but no way will he have anything to do with us. A lot of us want to get ahold of these plans. (I myself am in limbo because I bought an 'unauthorized' set before I knew all this)

Because of all the pressure to acquire the plans, there is some under-the-radar activity going on, which greatly wrankles a lot of the O.D.'s supporters (OD=original designer). And a lot of decent people who are seriously interested in the airplane (me) are backing off because they don't want to get involved in possibility of copyright infringement or even slighting a good man (the OD).

So any ideas out of this? I suspect it will involve some legal maneuvering to make this happen.

How to bring these plans to the US, and protect the OD from lawsuits, and give him his due for his intellectual rights?
All in the face of a very stubborn OD, he will not likely want to play our game.
Impossible? Looking for someone who doesn't believe in impossibilities!
 
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"Dave Taylor -- meet David Taylor,"(the other one on the board). He's a lawyer. Similarity of names ought to confuse any jurist, eh?

HR
 
Similar story. When I was stationed in Germany in the early 90's I (and a lot of American GI's) wanted to watch English speaking TV. British Brodcasting Service was broadcasting a couple of dozen channels on digital satellites. The problem was they would not sell outside of England.
Because of this it was legal to purchase a system from England (you had to go there and get it because they would not ship it outside the country) and install a hacked decoder chip. The guy selling the chip had a 365 day timer installed in it so it had to be replaced 365 days after it was turned on the first time after activation. Soon after finding all of this out I had a small side business installing digital satellite receivers (that I installed a socket to accept the new decoder and installed the new decoder)for GI's and updating their "subscription" (install a new chip).
This was legal because the BBS was not loosing any money due to due to us receiving and decoding the satellite signal in an area where they could/would not sell services. I hope yours ends up in the same boat.
 
1 roll a sec. - I know I don't have enough..... but, it does look fun.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Here is what its all about.

There is this really cool homebuilt out there for which plans used to be available. (that is the gist of this post; we can not get plans in the US for anything, despite a large following.)

It was designed in a european country.
The plans and a kit were distributed by a US dealer for a while, and this distributor altered the plans/kit to include - a fatal modification.
So; one crashes, kills the pilot, and the widow sues....the original designer! Not the US guy who altered this excellent design - but the innocent, out of country designer who had nothing to do with it!!
This lawsuit scares the cr@p out of him, costs a small fortune to defend, and guess what - now he won't let the plans go to ANY North American country! He sells to S.A., Europe, Asia, etc etc etc - but no way will he have anything to do with us. A lot of us want to get ahold of these plans. (I myself am in limbo because I bought an 'unauthorized' set before I knew all this)

Because of all the pressure to acquire the plans, there is some under-the-radar activity going on, which greatly wrankles a lot of the O.D.'s supporters (OD=original designer). And a lot of decent people who are seriously interested in the airplane (me) are backing off because they don't want to get involved in possibility of copyright infringement or even slighting a good man (the OD).

So any ideas out of this? I suspect it will involve some legal maneuvering to make this happen.

How to bring these plans to the US, and protect the OD from lawsuits, and give him his due for his intellectual rights?
All in the face of a very stubborn OD, he will not likely want to play our game.
Impossible? Looking for someone who doesn't believe in impossibilities!
Click to expand...

First, I don't the first thing about copyright law, patent infringement, or intellectual property! Those are very specialized areas and, unfortunately, I have no knowledge or education in any of them. If you want to do a little research on your own, a website like findlaw.com has some good starting points.

That said, what's the problem with going to Europe, buying whatever you need there, and bringing it back? I'm not recommending that you do that without speaking to someone knowledgeable in the area, but I don't see a problem with that. Or, why not have someone who lives in Europe (assuming you know one) buy in a "straw man" deal?

Along the same lines, is it possible to buy a used plane from someone living in Europe?

Again, I'm not recommending that you do any of the above without talking to someone who's wayyyyy more knowledgeable than me. There could be customs issues, laws either here or in Europe, or even treaties that wouldn't allow something like that.

I wish that I could be of further help, but this is an area I don't have any experience in.

On another note, this is how our legal system affects us on an individual basis. It's easy to ignore the effects when you insurance rates only go up a little bit. After all, what's $50 more when you're already paying $1000. But this is the price that we pay for allowing a bunch of GD'd lawsuits. Now that is something I do know a little bit about - and I'm more than happy to have a good rant if you'd like!
 
Dave, Won't comment about the law suit as thats not why you posted so why don't you just look into a freight forwarder? Your in Texas you could have the plans and parts if you need to get them from the OD shipped to Mexico and then forwarded here?

I also don't practice Intellectual property law but I don't see how you would be depriving the OD of value since you are still paying him for the plans its not like you took them from some aviation home built version of napster.

As for the Cri Cri its a neat plane but not sure I'd fly one I've see RC models bigger than the cri cri. Here is a good video of one.
http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006/cri-cri-p1.php
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
On another note, this is how our legal system affects us on an individual basis. It's easy to ignore the effects when you insurance rates only go up a little bit. After all, what's $50 more when you're already paying $1000. But this is the price that we pay for allowing a bunch of GD'd lawsuits. Now that is something I do know a little bit about - and I'm more than happy to have a good rant if you'd like!
Click to expand...

Remember no single engine pistons planes were made in the U.S. until the GA Revitalization Act made it possible to build them again and still risk the liability.

Burt Rutan hisself, along with Mike Melville, said he stopped selling plans because he had enough with being brought into courtrooms for days of "fun." He mentioned one case where a guy snapped a wing on his Long-EZ doing unauthorized and forbidden aerobatics. He had been doing rolls in the EZ for a few weeks before the accident. When Burt and Mike took a look at the Long-EZ they found that the guy had built and installed 4 fiberglass ribs in the wings where there were supposed to be 7. At that it held up for aerobatics.

One guy asked Burt about his project, which he called a Rutan-something. The guy was one of a long line of people who had a set of photocopied Long-EZ plans. He hadn't paid Rutan Aircraft Factory a dime, but he had no problem asking Burt for advice. Mike dressed him down and told him to name the plane something else so Burt wouldn't be called into another courtroom.

If I was the plane maker I would refuse to let the plane enter the U.S. by any means. There is no way to limit the maker from a lawyer who will go after them for the flimsiest of connections.

New Piper had to explain how they let JFK, Jr. kill himself.
 
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OK, I am going to rename this thread:

"I need a new legal system!!!!!!!!!"

Thanks for your thoughts,
 
Dave, just act like you will be bringing one into the USA. When the OD brings civil suit you can have Dave and Adam introduce (supoena?) Exhibit A (be sure all the parts you'll need are present and accounted). Free shipping to boot.

That'll be $200. Glad I could help.
 
Richard said:
Dave, just act like you will be bringing one into the USA. When the OD brings civil suit you can have Dave and Adam introduce (supoena?) Exhibit A (be sure all the parts you'll need are present and accounted). Free shipping to boot.

That'll be $200. Glad I could help.
Click to expand...


LOL Now there is some creativity!!
 
a) I am told that no one can sign away liability. The O.D. is always going to be answerable to a US lawsuit. (T or F?)

b) apparently others have offered the O.D. such ideas of protection and he is not interested in the slightest.

My thought is that with an unsatisfied demand and no ethical means of obtaining the desired item.....people will resort to less ethical means of acquisition.
Will the O.D. pursue legal action against such people? I suspect not (there is no financial loss, as he won't sell here. he obviously abhors lawsuits so you might think he would not sue).

What other way could copies of the plans be distributed? Get his written acquiescence (as apposed to approval)?
 
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