I lied on Turbomedical AOPA Practice

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But don't really want to lie to the real AME.

Couple of questions really scared me.

1. ever been prescribed meds for motion sickness: Yes, about 3 years ago. Meclizine and Xanax.

I haven't taken any in years, but when I disclose this, what's going to happen?

2. Ever been denied an application for life insurance? Yes, about 3 years ago (see above answer for reason why)

other than that, everything is perfect. How much do I have to worry for my 3rd class?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
What answer do you get on the Turbomedical when you put in the right answers?
Click to expand...

Quote from the Turbomedical:

"Medications to treat motion sickness can cause adverse side effects and are not allowed by the FAA. Motion sickness that occurs early in flight training, persists for only a few lessons, and resolves without medication usage should not be a problem for certification. For additional information, click here."
 
Jaybird180 said:
I don't understand #2. Please expound.
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Actually I was talking that over with my wife today, and I remembered that I wasn't turned down for the life insurance policy. I told them to stuff it, when they grilled me on my usage of motion sickness meds. The next company I applied to gave me the policy without incident after a physical.

So I was technically never turned down for life insurance. Mistake on my part.
 
Unregistered said:
But don't really want to lie to the real AME.

Couple of questions really scared me.

1. ever been prescribed meds for motion sickness: Yes, about 3 years ago. Meclizine and Xanax.

I haven't taken any in years, but when I disclose this, what's going to happen?
Click to expand...

When I looked up both Meclizine and Xanax on the AOPA medicatin database, I found the following:

attachment.php


attachment.php


Dr. Bruce Chien will be along in a while to provide the best advice of how to approach this. Listen to his sage advice and follow it to the "T" and you'll be able work this through.

My guess is that the Meclizine would just be a simple status letter saying something like , "prescribed on this date, desired results achieved, patient has not had repeat episodes and has been off of the medication since mm/dd/yyyy with no adverse effects", since it is an antihistamine that requires self grounding until it's 100% out of your system.

The Xanax is likely to be a completely different story. As an anti anxiety, this opens up different areas of yourself that the FAA wants lots of documentation about.

Again, it's likely still doable, but you'll need to obtain all of the right documentation. Again, Dr. Bruce is "THE BEST" at helping you with this.


I'm also gonna search for some past threads on this. For some reason, I remember that's it's possble with Xanax, but there are some strict conditions.
 

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Found it.

In this thread, Dr. Bruce says: (bold emphasis is mine)

Dr. Bruce Chien said:
Ambien is not for anxiety.

There are NO RXs that are acceptable to the FAA for anxiety. If you must take something do so for LESS THAN SIX MONTHS and self ground. Why less than six months? The resultant full metal jacket psych eval that will become necessary for return to service will make you quite anxious.....if the duration was less than six months, the AME can make the issuance call without a psych.

But for certain, don't just take a "try this you'll feel better" medicine. Uh uhhhh.
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With this, one bit of advice I'd offer is to find an AME that fits Dr Bruce's criteria for a "rock star" AME. Otherwise, you might get stuck out to dry without recourse because the AME didn't fully know what to do.

Criteria:
1) Is a pilot himself (preferrably current)
2) Does AME-ing as a primary gig, not just a filler
3) Is a Senior and/or Difficult Case AME
4) Has the right folks at OKC on speed dial and is willing to use them
5) Is willing to hit the speed dial button and be your advocate right then and there (as long as you brought in EVERYthing needed to support issuance).

There are likely more, but this covers the biggies.
 
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Thanks for that. I appreciate it.

I was secretly hoping that the 3 years 3 months since the prescription would avoid me having to disclose this, but I think I was wrong. I simply didn't think they went back that far. Big mistake on my part.

As far as out of my system, well, the meclizine didn't even work. That was out of my system in 2008. Xanax still sits on my shelf. Took a couple and it worked like a charm.

Wish I had chosen a different path for my scripts.
 
I'd hold up for a bit and wait for Dr. Bruce to provide the right help.

You can also go to www.aeromedicaldoc.com and get his email address from the contact info. Then email him your question directly. He has helped countless airmen this way. Including me!
 
Unregistered said:
But don't really want to lie to the real AME.

Couple of questions really scared me.

1. ever been prescribed meds for motion sickness: Yes, about 3 years ago. Meclizine and Xanax.
Click to expand...
Where was your AME during all this? Did you even bother to call him up as ask what the implications might be? Do you maintain relationships or do you only punch the key when you perceive a problem? Or do you shop from AME to AME? More on this later on........
I haven't taken any in years, but when I disclose this, what's going to happen?
Click to expand...
See below....
2. Ever been denied an application for life insurance? Yes, about 3 years ago (see above answer for reason why)

other than that, everything is perfect.[
Click to expand...
Oh, just greeaaat.
How much do I have to worry for my 3rd class?
Click to expand...
First, if you haven't been issued yet, just tell the AME you omitted and put it in there, subject to the documentation below that you NEED TO HAVE WITH YOU AT EXAM. If you've already been issued.....well.....read every word.

I see #2 is not an issue. So I'll not go there.

The key to reporting #1 and not getting your proverbial ARSE kicked in by FAA for lying is to be able to show in the VERY NEXT interaction, all in once piece, that the condition is long gone and that you are certifiable NOW. Generally speaking unless they are worried that the condition still exists and that you will fly, they have bigger fish to refer to the FAA General Counsel for action. First of all you're not even Second class. They get really trigger happy about the IIs and Is.

If you still have a relationship with the doctor who prescribed this stuff, both VERBOTEN, get him to write a letter not to FAA but to your AME or to you, stating when the Rxs were LAST written, why they were given (for godsakes he needs to say the exact words "no psychiatric diagnoses") and then you should accompany that with a letter saying you did not fly during those periods and your omission was inadvertant.

That's a key word. Inadvertant. It's very hard to prove willfull and makes the General counsel's life hard. Usuallly, the FAA Medical examiner in OKC, who looks at your documentation will just send you a warning, that "if the condition returns you are to immediatly ground and inform the FAA" e.g, he'll take you OFF of 61.53 for THAT condition.

************

Now that having been said, DO BETTER. Get into a relationship with an AME that you can call when stuff happens; I have guys calling from the Dr's EXAM ROOM, saying he want to write an Rx for this or that.....is this one okay? I've had Cariologists call from the ER on the professional guys asking what needs done. Any AME worth a relational existence will ANSWER THE d_mned phone!

I had a guy who falsified, e.g, altered one of my medicals, and I ASSISTED FAA IN KICKING THE GUYS ARSE. He lost his ATP. I can't stand liars. In my office, it's "come clean with me with everything you can think of, I will assist and I will also tell you when to just NOT apply."

Sigh. Ethics, you see are not situational. You have to have control of them ALL the TIME. And now the FAA has teeth (alcohol and Marijuana).....and a lot of kids are having to come clean. I've never had so many FAA demanded monitoring programs running at once....

Now that you have the perspective, you can see that yours can be handled mostly likely without suspension.....The only exception is if you are in the Kansas City district. That requires someone like me. Then you should work your case through Memphis or Chicago, bypassing RFS Dr. L. W_lson, who is famous for making airmen's lives needlessly miserable and generating many enforcement referrals. He is problemmatic and is NOT an incentive for airmen to come clean.
 
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bbchien said:
Where was your AME during all this? Did you even bother to call him up as ask what the implications might be? Do you maintain relationships or do you only punch the key when you perceive a problem? Or do you shop from AME to AME? More on this later on........See below....Oh, just greeaaat. First, if you haven't been issued yet, just tell the AME you omitted and put it in there, subject to the documentation below that you NEED TO HAVE WITH YOU AT EXAM. If you've already been issued.....well.....read every word.

I see #2 is not an issue. So I'll not go there.

The key to reporting #1 and not getting your proverbial ARSE kicked in by FAA for lying is to be able to show in the VERY NEXT interaction, all in once piece, that the condition is long gone and that you are certifiable NOW. Generally speaking unless they are worried that the condition still exists and that you will fly, they have bigger fish to refer to the FAA General Counsel for action. First of all you're not even Second class. They get really trigger happy about the IIs and Is.

If you still have a relationship with the doctor who prescribed this stuff, both VERBOTEN, get him to write a letter not to FAA but to your AME or to you, stating when the Rxs were LAST written, why they were given (for godsakes he needs to say the exact words "no psychiatric diagnoses") and then you should accompany that with a letter saying you did not fly during those periods and your omission was inadvertant.

That's a key word. Inadvertant. It's very hard to prove willfull and makes the General counsel's life hard. Usuallly, the FAA Medical examiner in OKC, who looks at your documentation will just send you a warning, that "if the condition returns you are to immediatly ground and inform the FAA" e.g, he'll take you OFF of 61.53 for THAT condition.

You probably had Benign Paroxysmal Positional vertigo or a Viral Labyrinthitis (relative probabilities depend on your age). But it appears you don't know enought about it, and just waited for it (fortunately) to pass.

************

Now that having been said, DO BETTER. Get into a relationship with an AME that you can call when stuff happens; I have guys calling from the Dr's EXAM ROOM, saying he want to write an Rx for this or that.....is this one okay? And AME worth a relational existence will ANSWER THE d_mned phone!

I had a guy who falsified, e.g, altered one of my medicals, and I ASSISTED FAA IN KICKING THE GUYS ARSE. He lost his ATP. I can't stand liars. In my office, it's "come clean with me with everything you can think of, I will assist and I will also tell you when to just NOT apply."

Sigh. Ethics, you see are not situational. You have to have control of them ALL the TIME. And now the FAA has teeth (alcohol and Marijuana).....and a lot of kids are having to come clean. I've never had so many FAA demanded monitoring programs running at once....

Now that you have the perspective, you can see that yours can be handled mostly likely without suspension.....The only exception is if you are in the Kansas City district. That requires someone like me. Then you should work your case through Memphis or Chicago, bypassing RFS Dr. L. W_lson, who is famous for making airmen's lives needlessly miserable and generating many enforcement referrals. He is problemmatic and is NOT an incentive for airmen to come clean.
Click to expand...

Well, I've read this twice and will read it a few more times after this posting.

Thanks for your expertise and good advice.

To be clear, although it's probably not important to anyone but me, I haven't flown in over 4 years and at the time of the script, I thought my life of flying was over. I never really had a "relationship" with an AME and never gave any thought to having one until now. My GP, who prescribed such meds is still my GP and will certainly pen a letter for me, I'm sure.

I'm sure you get tired of this question, as I now see you've been answering them on this subject for some time, but it doesn't go in vein, it seems there is always something to learn by these threads.

I'll be more prepared for my visits to my GP from now on as I hope others like me that have been ignorant to such things will. My GP was even surprised that this drug was problematic for life insurance applicants. Perhaps something to be learned by that admission alone.

Thanks again. Appreciate it.
 
Someting to ask the OP because it isn't quite clear yet.

Do you currently hold a an active 3rd class medical? Or are you a student pilot who is seeking his first medical?
 
I got the impression that the OP was seeking his first medical - in which case it seems he's good as long as he gets the documentation Dr. Bruce is suggesting explaining when the meds were used, why the meds were provided for motion sickness and that there was no psych diagnosis involved, and no recurrence of symptoms.
 
Sorry if I was vague.

I have had several Class III medicals, but my last one was about 6 years ago. I haven't flown since then. I thought I was done flying and didn't give these meds any thought.

so I do not have a medical, it is NOT my first medical that I am seeking, my old medical obviously expired at its term about 4 years ago.

I've been flying with an instructor, but will need this before my BFR.
 
bbchien said:
Where was your AME during all this? Did you even bother to call him up as ask what the implications might be? Do you maintain relationships or do you only punch the key when you perceive a problem? Or do you shop from AME to AME? More on this later on........See below....Oh, just greeaaat. First, if you haven't been issued yet, just tell the AME you omitted and put it in there, subject to the documentation below that you NEED TO HAVE WITH YOU AT EXAM. If you've already been issued.....well.....read every word.

I see #2 is not an issue. So I'll not go there.

The key to reporting #1 and not getting your proverbial ARSE kicked in by FAA for lying is to be able to show in the VERY NEXT interaction, all in once piece, that the condition is long gone and that you are certifiable NOW. Generally speaking unless they are worried that the condition still exists and that you will fly, they have bigger fish to refer to the FAA General Counsel for action. First of all you're not even Second class. They get really trigger happy about the IIs and Is.

If you still have a relationship with the doctor who prescribed this stuff, both VERBOTEN, get him to write a letter not to FAA but to your AME or to you, stating when the Rxs were LAST written, why they were given (for godsakes he needs to say the exact words "no psychiatric diagnoses") and then you should accompany that with a letter saying you did not fly during those periods and your omission was inadvertant.

That's a key word. Inadvertant. It's very hard to prove willfull and makes the General counsel's life hard. Usuallly, the FAA Medical examiner in OKC, who looks at your documentation will just send you a warning, that "if the condition returns you are to immediatly ground and inform the FAA" e.g, he'll take you OFF of 61.53 for THAT condition.

************

Now that having been said, DO BETTER. Get into a relationship with an AME that you can call when stuff happens; I have guys calling from the Dr's EXAM ROOM, saying he want to write an Rx for this or that.....is this one okay? I've had Cariologists call from the ER on the professional guys asking what needs done. Any AME worth a relational existence will ANSWER THE d_mned phone!

I had a guy who falsified, e.g, altered one of my medicals, and I ASSISTED FAA IN KICKING THE GUYS ARSE. He lost his ATP. I can't stand liars. In my office, it's "come clean with me with everything you can think of, I will assist and I will also tell you when to just NOT apply."

Sigh. Ethics, you see are not situational. You have to have control of them ALL the TIME. And now the FAA has teeth (alcohol and Marijuana).....and a lot of kids are having to come clean. I've never had so many FAA demanded monitoring programs running at once....

Now that you have the perspective, you can see that yours can be handled mostly likely without suspension.....The only exception is if you are in the Kansas City district. That requires someone like me. Then you should work your case through Memphis or Chicago, bypassing RFS Dr. L. W_lson, who is famous for making airmen's lives needlessly miserable and generating many enforcement referrals. He is problemmatic and is NOT an incentive for airmen to come clean.
Click to expand...

Bruce,

I think the OP only lied on the TurboMedical program....he hasn't applied for his medical yet, if I read the OP correctly.
 
I couldn't tell from it, so that's why the truly loooooonnnng winded post.

But if he's had a medical before, and has been away from flying, he may not be aware that it's still in force for FIVE years if it was issued before his 40th birthday.....
 
Actually, I learned a little something from that "loooooonnnng winded post" - I'm in the Kansas City district.
 
Short or long winded, we all learn valuable stuff from you, Dr. B!
 
Passed my medical today. No restrictions. Didn't even need my readers to pass.

Thank You Dr. Bruce for your Off-Line Help and advice you provided.

But........As my AME tells me, there is always a chance that within 4-6 weeks, the MAN in Oak City can kick it back to me and do any number of things with my application. Anything from follow up with ENT to complete denial.

He anticipates nothing from the Feds, but says its always possible. He has to give his thoughts about me as an applicant and he did "interview" me for a while on the reason for the prescriptions in the first place. There is quite a bit of subjectiveness behind this process.

As a side note: I will put this in caps for some reason:HE WAS TOTALLY SHOCKED THAT I DIDN'T LIE ON MY APPLICATION AND TOLD ME I WAS IN THE MINORITY WITH MY HONESTY. HE TOLD ME THAT I WOULD BE SHOCKED IF I KNEW HOW MANY FOLKS ARE POKING HOLES IN THE SKY WITH NO MEDICAL.

Hate to sound naive, but I wouldn't have thought that number was very high these days.
 
Watch your mail for sixty days. They can revoke with the burden on you in the first 60. After that, the can still pull it but the burden is on them.

Remember, if you have any assets at all, this is not about your ability to fly. It's about your ability to enforce an insurance payout and affirmative defence.

Get a relationship with a good AME, and stay with it. It's like a mechanic. Just as important.
 
bbchien said:
Watch your mail for sixty days. They can revoke with the burden on you in the first 60. After that, the can still pull it but the burden is on them.

Remember, if you have any assets at all, this is not about your ability to fly. It's about your ability to enforce an insurance payout and affirmative defence.

Get a relationship with a good AME, and stay with it. It's like a mechanic. Just as important.
Click to expand...

I don't want to make any assumption about what you mean here, so would you kindly elaborate sir?
 
If they question the issuance of the AME they have a much harder time if they don't notify you short 60 days.

If you have a good AME and they question the issuance, he will take the lead in your defense.
 
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