I just don't know...

F

Flyfishingpilot

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
282
Location
Can
Display Name
Display name:
KC1
I've been looking to buy a plane for the past 3 months. As most recommend, I've defined my "mission", flying around the patch, a few x-country trips (under 600nm) here and there, flying to the Bahamas. 90% of the time, I'll fly alone. I'm 170, she's 105. We'll have about 50lb of luggage so we have a total weight 325, 350 at the most. I've trained on 172 so I'm used that the high wings. I also like looking down.
I've always favored the taildraggers, so at first I looked at 170B (no fabric). I really like the plane's look but the panel is usually basic and I don't care for the gauge lay-out (no six pack). Some of the ealier 172 have newer panel but the plain-vanilla look doesn't do much for me. Another plane that I like is the Varga, though I have concerns about spare parts, etc. Then I look at Cherokee 180 which seems to give you a lot of bang for your buck. Same with the C182...

The only true requirement is IFR so that I can get my ticket.

As you can tell, I'm all over the map. Not a single plane type has really been the "I want THAT!" and I've looked at just about every aircraft made. This buying process seems to be just like boats, It's all a compromise, and I have to decide what I can live with.
Sorry for the rant, it's just seems like the buying process confuses me more and more ....

Anyone else went through the same ordeal? What did you settle on?
 
Last edited:
How much do you have to spend? Can you get a hangar? Do you mind old airplanes as long as they fit your other requirements?
 
At my base, Wiscasset, Maine KIWI I know of two airplanes for sale. One is a 172, though I'm not certain of the year. It's owned by the family of my CFI who is 18 years old and in August will bead for ERAU Daytona. He uses it to teach, though I've not been in her because I have my own plane. The listed price is $27,000.00.

The other plane is an RV-4(polished aluminum) and will come with a new annual. Steve, the owner, I think is Army or National Guard. My understanding is that he doesn't have much free time to fly but the spare time can be observed as he regularly tinkers and tunes. $45,000.00. Both planes hangared, though the RV-4 mainly during the winter when Steve occupies the hangar of another RV-4 which winters in Florida. E-mail me if you want names. Also, watch the September issue of AOPA Pilot. My CFI will be a feature subject on the last page. His plane might be shown, though I'm uncertain about that.

HR
 
Ken Ibold said:
How much do you have to spend? Can you get a hangar? Do you mind old airplanes as long as they fit your other requirements?
Click to expand...

About 50ish or so. No hangar. I love old planes but not having a hangar to store a tube/fabric plane precludes that option...:( Old metal planes is fine...
 
Last edited:
Warrior, Cheetah, 172 would all do what you want.
 
Lawreston said:
The other plane is an RV-4(polished aluminum) and will come with a new annual. Steve, the owner, I think is Army or National Guard. My understanding is that he doesn't have much free time to fly but the spare time can be observed as he regularly tinkers and tunes. $45,000.00. Both planes hangared, though the RV-4 mainly during the winter when Steve occupies the hangar of another RV-4 which winters in Florida. E-mail me if you want names. Also, watch the September issue of AOPA Pilot. My CFI will be a feature subject on the last page. His plane might be shown, though I'm uncertain about that.

HR
Click to expand...


I like the rv-4 especially the aerobatic ones. I don't know how to judge an experimental plane. How can you tell if it was built right? The other thing that I don't know is how long to glass planes last? Is there a definite lifespan?
That's one advantage of tube/fabric planes... you can resurrected them without too much fuss...
 
Flyfishingpilot said:
I like the rv-4 especially the aerobatic ones. I don't know how to judge an experimental plane. How can you tell if it was built right? The other thing that I don't know is how long to glass planes last? Is there a definite lifespan?
That's one advantage of tube/fabric planes... you can resurrected them without too much fuss...
Click to expand...

The best way to check out a homebuilt is to find someone with lots of experience WORKING on them (not just flying them) and have them check it out. Sometimes it's an A&P and sometimes it's just Joe Hangar-Guy, the guy down at the end of the hangars that's built 10 RV's in his life. Any A&P can give you an idea of if it's fly-able, but it takes someone with in-depth knowledge of the build process to be able to determine how well it was built in the beginning.
 
I love homebuilts, but I wouldn't recommend one to a fist time buyer. The learning curve is steep enough as it is.

The time to buy is now, and the money you quote will buy a lot of airplane. Figure out what floats your boat, it will be out there.
 
steingar said:
I love homebuilts, but I wouldn't recommend one to a fist time buyer. The learning curve is steep enough as it is.

The time to buy is now, and the money you quote will buy a lot of airplane. Figure out what floats your boat, it will be out there.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but one caveat: make sure you leave plenty of money aside to deal with repairs and upgrades for those things that you're not completely fond of. You can get a lot of airplane for $50K, true, but you might be able to get even more for $35K with $15K in upgrades.
 
I just went through the decision making process so I can commiserate with your position. Yup, it seems like just deciding on a set of compromises and accepting them.

I decided I wanted the wing on the bottom, less than 5000 TT, at least 5 years left on the engine (defined as lots of engine time left :) ), servicable avionics and the ability to haul 4 with range to better bird hunting than we have around here. Then I looked west and said that it prolly should be able to get well above the bumps that somebody stacked up to better than 14K in places. The money limit grew as I shopped and decided that financing wasn't so bad.

I found a Dakota with 2,500 TT and 600 on a factory engine. The price was reasonable and I'm in the middle of the purchase. Found a problem on the inspection and the wings had to come off to fix it. It'll be awhile longer before it's mine... :(

Is it the perfect plane for me?...no...but it's pretty good and it'll be fun for many years. Lots of payload, range, and decent speed. Plenty of altitude capability. It'll do.
 
Flyfishingpilot said:
I like the rv-4 especially the aerobatic ones. I don't know how to judge an experimental plane. How can you tell if it was built right? The other thing that I don't know is how long to glass planes last? Is there a definite lifespan?
That's one advantage of tube/fabric planes... you can resurrected them without too much fuss...
Click to expand...

When I go to the airport I'll copy the data off the FOR SALE card that's on the cork board in the FBO.

HR
 
jmaynard said:
Agreed, but one caveat: make sure you leave plenty of money aside to deal with repairs and upgrades for those things that you're not completely fond of. You can get a lot of airplane for $50K, true, but you might be able to get even more for $35K with $15K in upgrades.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I have another 15-18kfor upgrades.
 
You are only limited by your imagination (and to an extent your wallet) in configuring a panel for a 170B. A true six pack is a little harder to pull off, because it requires a modification to the yoke assembly behind the panel - I believe there is an STC available for this- but many 170's have the gauges otherwise configured differently than stock - including me - and they are out there for sale.

The venturis are very reliable for IFR so long as 1) you don't encounter icing (why would you want to anyway?) and you aren't departing in 0/0 conditions. Lots of folks fly venturi-equipped 170's IFR.

All that being said, if you truly want a IFR-capable, six-pack equipped taildragger with your stated weight and mission requirements I would look for a 160 hp or 180hp Maule :yes:
 
I am working on a 170B right now. It will have fresh paint and new interior. I was originally purchased by a Doctor so it has a cool panel "remote compass" I am going to install a newer COM radio only though. To make a nice panel out of it one would put in a 300XL and a SL30. Problem I see with a 170B is it is no faster than a 150 so I'm told. Great STOL plane though. This will have most everything replaced as far as hoses and such.

Dan
 
stingray said:
I am working on a 170B right now. It will have fresh paint and new interior. I was originally purchased by a Doctor so it has a cool panel "remote compass" I am going to install a newer COM radio only though. To make a nice panel out of it one would put in a 300XL and a SL30. Problem I see with a 170B is it is no faster than a 150 so I'm told. Great STOL plane though. This will have most everything replaced as far as hoses and such.

Dan
Click to expand...

At recommended cruise RPM (2450) in the 5k to 7k altitude ranges I cruise at 115-120mph with a climb prop installed. I have a slightly bigger engine though. Don't know the speed of the 150. Book is "105 knots" cruise on stock 170's.
 
Given your weight requirements, you can buy a lot of plane for not a lot of money in the experimental market, but then again whether or not you are comfortable enough with your skill level to handle those planes is another matter entirely.

I'm going through a similar thing right now, except I'm even more all over the map than you. My range goes from a Lancair 360 to a Piper Aztec. :eek:

Clearly, though, I haven't figured out my requirements well enough yet.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Given your weight requirements, you can buy a lot of plane for not a lot of money in the experimental market, but then again whether or not you are comfortable enough with your skill level to handle those planes is another matter entirely.

I'm going through a similar thing right now, except I'm even more all over the map than you. My range goes from a Lancair 360 to a Piper Aztec. :eek:

Clearly, though, I haven't figured out my requirements well enough yet.
Click to expand...

Ted hasn't realized all he wants is wrapped up in a skin of an A36 Bonanza...

;-)
 
for a typical 225 lb and sometime 330 lb load, id think an IFR 150 or 152 would do the job. probably wouldnt be able to completely fill the tanks when going with the wife and bags, but you could spend the extra 25 or 30,000 bucks on stopping every couple hours for fuel. the wifes legs would appreciate it too.
 
tonycondon said:
for a typical 225 lb and sometime 330 lb load, id think an IFR 150 or 152 would do the job. probably wouldnt be able to completely fill the tanks when going with the wife and bags, but you could spend the extra 25 or 30,000 bucks on stopping every couple hours for fuel. the wifes legs would appreciate it too.
Click to expand...

A Beech Skipper would be in the same class, with similar payload, but a bit more comfy cabin.
 
dmccormack said:
Ted hasn't realized all he wants is wrapped up in a skin of an A36 Bonanza...

;-)
Click to expand...

Ted hasn't realized a lot of things, but I'm not so sure that's one of them. ;)
 
dmccormack said:
A Beech Skipper would be in the same class, with similar payload, but a bit more comfy cabin.
Click to expand...

true, but with the fleet size of the small Cessnas, support and general knowledge will become pretty valuable as the age increases. Pretty much any A&P can comfortably work on a 150. Ive never seen a Skipper in my life.
 
Flyfishingpilot said:
I've always favored the taildraggers, so at first I looked at 170B (no fabric). I really like the plane's look but the panel is usually basic and I don't care for the gauge lay-out (no six pack).
Click to expand...

I'm in the "must have a 6-pack" club too, and I used to simply pass on the planes that didn't already have one. Now, however, I found out that on a plane that simply needs a reconfigured panel and you're using the same instruments, it should be around $3,000 to remove what's there, fabricate a spiffy new 6-pack panel, and reinstall everything. Note that there may be additional work required for the 170 as Richard stated, but check into it further before you give up on that idea. It sounds like you'd really like a 170 but for the panel problem!

Another option that fits into the fun taildragger category and fits your mission requirements is the Globe Swift. Learn more about those, they're pretty neat. http://www.globetemcoswift.com/ redirects to the owners group, I can never remember the real address for it.

Another option, of course, is to skip the tailwheel thing and just buy a 172.

You mentioned the Cherokee 180 and Cessna 182 as well - Both good airplanes that do a lot of things very well. I'd suggest you try to learn about, and more importantly FLY, all of the above before you make your final decision. :yes:
 
C150 are just too cramped... it would not be a fun plane on a x-country.

I did research the globe swift. Beautiful plane but spare part issues kept on creeping up.

I'm really taking hard look at the Piper Cherokee 180. Seems like a decent plane. I see they have some that they call Challengers. Any variation better than the other? Any noteworthy "issues" with that product line?
 
Flyfishingpilot said:
C150 are just too cramped... it would not be a fun plane on a x-country.

I did research the globe swift. Beautiful plane but spare part issues kept on creeping up.

I'm really taking hard look at the Piper Cherokee 180. Seems like a decent plane. I see they have some that they call Challengers. Any variation better than the other? Any noteworthy "issues" with that product line?
Click to expand...

The 1973 model Cherokee 180 was called a Challenger. In 1974 they again renamed the 180 the Archer. No difference between the two though.
 
Flyfishingpilot said:
I'm really taking hard look at the Piper Cherokee 180. Seems like a decent plane. I see they have some that they call Challengers. Any variation better than the other? Any noteworthy "issues" with that product line?
Click to expand...

Along about 73 or so they added 5" to the cabin for more rear seat room. Also redesigned the seats about that time. There was an AD for spar inspection but that got rescinded when few problems were found. Have heard stories of corrosion that isn't found until the tanks are pulled. Check insurance as I've heard that there are higher premiums on the 180's.

My opinion was to say something along the lines of damn the fuel burn, I want 20 knots faster and 4000 feet higher than the 180 can deliver but YMMV.

By the book a Cherokee 180 does have a higher fuel burn than a Skyhawk XP, but similar cruise speeds. The Cherokee glides like a safe compared to the Skyhawk...The first time I flew a Piper I thought I was way too high after the turn to final. It turned out that I was just about right 'cause the darn thing just fell when the power was pulled back. Seventy-five knot final? No problem boss, just point it at the ground sorta steep like...:)

I fit in a Piper better than a Cessna but that's going to be an individual thing.
 
The Maule Orion M7 sounds perfect for you. Actually the description of the plane you wanted is how I would describe the Maule M7. Also it is more of a bush plane but it sounds good for you
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top