I have no words...

mondtster said:
I've always wondered how the average PoA pilot flys compared to the average pilot I see. With the way things are presented here online everyone here must be Bob Hoover Jr. except for me since they make no mistakes.

My bet is that the average pilot here is much like the average pilot that doesn't participate, even though it sure doesn't appear that way by what you read.
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I disagree. There is a selection effect. Those that seek out this site, read and post are staying mentally active and are learning from their peers. Those that don't may not be keeping their head in the game. Surely not all, but some of those pilots aren't. So, I do think on average those that come here will be better informed, and are more sharp on the procedures.
 
steingar said:
I must disagree quite violently. If a pilot is reading these pages, odds are his or her head is a least a little in the game. Pilots crash because their heads aren't in the game, at least not enough. Reading social media posts is certainly no substitute for flying the airplane, but it can keep you in the game to some degree.
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Preposterous! :)
 
steingar said:
I must disagree quite violently. If a pilot is reading these pages, odds are his or her head is a least a little in the game. Pilots crash because their heads aren't in the game, at least not enough. Reading social media posts is certainly no substitute for flying the airplane, but it can keep you in the game to some degree.
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Having textbook knowledge of procedures and airplane flying theory is one thing. Having actual stick and rudder skills, instrument flying skills, and some flight experience is quite another. I'd bet the average PoA participant is wildly average in the skill and experience department although I'd agree that they may be more book smart than the average non-participant.

The way people rip each other apart around here would lead a person to believe that everyone has above average skill and experience yet when you really read many of the comments it appears to me that the average experience level is relatively low and the breadth of that experience is relatively narrow. At least of the ones doing the majority of the posting...
 
Only good part of that is he's no longer in the same airspace as me.
 
RileyMitchum said:
Just curious what another good resource for NTSB reports would be, besides sifting through the original report yourself? Is there some other "news" style site that has an article associated with a report?
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Good question.
Kathryn's Report webpage collects reports on incidents and often has basic information and pictures up even before the NTSB opens a report.
You can search it by tail #, location, etc. For this suicidal CFIT event (NOT exactly an accident), they have a page with a lot of information.
 
If he was in a Comanche, which has a connected rudder and aileron . .. then the paraplegia may not have been completely disabling. But he wasn't!

Oh well - the kind of guy the criminal statutes were designed for . . .
 
BigBadLou said:
Good question.
Kathryn's Report webpage collects reports on incidents and often has basic information and pictures up even before the NTSB opens a report.
You can search it by tail #, location, etc. For this suicidal CFIT event (NOT exactly an accident), they have a page with a lot of information.
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That's just the site I was looking for, thank you! For anyone interested here is the Kathryn's Report version. http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2017/04/cessna-310h-n1099q-fatal-accident.html
 
Reading Kathryn's report for this accident it appears that both the pilot and pilot rated passenger had current class-3 medicals!
 
orange said:
You can disagree vehemently, but there's no need for violence. :p:p:p
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Obviously you haven't seen the violence of which the steingar is capable. He might just fold someone into a bird or a plane.
 
orange said:
You don't think that maybe they just wanted him gone.
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Departing Albuquerque one day, as I changed from ground to tower, the controller was yelling at someone, I mean loudly. I came in late on the conversation so I do not know what the problem was, but the controller ended to conversation with something like, "TURN HEADING 270, CONTACT DEPARTURE ON 127.4, GET OUT OF MY AIRSPACE AND DO NOT COME BACK.!!! GOOD DAY.!!!!" Very strong emphasis on good day.

I was a little afeared to click on and say I was ready to go on runway 8...but a few seconds later another controller came on frequency.

In all my years flying I have never heard a controller lose it as badly as this guy did. Maybe it was appropriate, I don't know. I did not hear what brought on such a tirade.
 
I was at an airport last Sunday... A lot of student pilots (two flying schools there) and an operating tower... The controller must have felt he was on the faculty of both (maybe he was) but he was sure "in command" of his airspace... In the same breath he tells me to report base to final turn and "clear to land...." so me, taking the cautious option, called my turn... "I already cleared you to land, don't need a turn by turn" was his response.... Some people, Geeze! LOL... This guy would have shut him down in a second!
 
Zeldman said:
In all my years flying I have never heard a controller lose it as badly as this guy did. Maybe it was appropriate, I don't know. I did not hear what brought on such a tirade.
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Heard similar from San Antonio approach a few years ago. Pilot with thick Russian accent reporting "inbound landing" like it was a non-towered field (no other info). Controller over next 10 minutes tries to get an N number and location and the pilot just doesn't get it. Finally SAT approach issues a squawk, which the pilot does, and they get a location on him. They tell him to remain clear of the Class C, he responds "cleared into the class C" and the ugly starts again. It was nearly an hour of this total I heard inbound from El Paso to Stinson and they were dealing with him and a ton of traffic on a Saturday morning right before July 4th.
 
Norman said:
While I will not defend the pilot in any way perhaps I can offer some insight. I've no information other than the report on this particular accident but base my observations on past experience.
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Norm, while your post is certainly saddening and can certainly affect people (we all have heard ads for drugs on TV where the listed side effects include "suicidal thoughts or tendencies"), I don't think that was necessarily the case here. Reading through the report, he called for a briefing saying he was heading to L51 airport, Amarillo. L51 is in Montana, and L51 was part of the airport information for Amarillo.

It seems far more likely that he misread the sectional (especially believable given the toxicology report I read which included (summarized) ethanol, blood pressure meds, Benadryl, and meth), plugged in the airport L51, had no idea which direction he was actually going, and followed the magenta line into the mountain.

mondtster said:
I've always wondered how the average PoA pilot flys compared to the average pilot I see. With the way things are presented here online everyone here must be Bob Hoover Jr. except for me since they make no mistakes.

My bet is that the average pilot here is much like the average pilot that doesn't participate, even though it sure doesn't appear that way by what you read.
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There was a statistic that said people who participate in type clubs are some percentage less likely to have a fatality than those who don't belong to a type club. I think the number was around 20%. The idea was more or less how others responded to you - the idea that if you seek out a pilot community you've got your head more in the game and probably also care more about safety.

I have flown with a good number of PoA pilots over the past 10 years. For the most part, the pilots we have are better than the average pilot I've come across. Yes, there are some with whom I will not get in an airplane, but most I don't worry about.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I have flown with a good number of PoA pilots over the past 10 years. For the most part, the pilots we have are better than the average pilot I've come across. Yes, there are some with whom I will not get in an airplane, but most I don't worry about.
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I agree with this. I have flown with a few PoA folks locally and also at Gastons.
 
I would think the average POA pilot is the same as the average non POA pilot. Still doesn't mean they can't offer guidance or correct someone who is in the wrong. I don't care if you're the worst pilot we have on POA, you should be able to call a spade a spade. In this case, calling the guy bat**** crazy is not out of line.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I have flown with a good number of PoA pilots over the past 10 years. For the most part, the pilots we have are better than the average pilot I've come across. Yes, there are some with whom I will not get in an airplane, but most I don't worry about.
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Let it be widely known that Ted has never been in an airplane with me.
 
Norman said:
@denverpilot

Nate,

While I will not defend the pilot in any way perhaps I can offer some insight. I've no information other than the report on this particular accident but base my observations on past experience. I'm going to open up here, and to those who can't deal with suicide I suggest you stop reading now. Perhaps the non rated pilot had the same drug-induced problems as my late wife. The drug she was taking, and was prescribed in good faith by our doctor, was her downfall. It was not till after her death that I took time to research the drug. I contacted a high powered lawyer who dealt with these situations and was advised to not spend money taking them to court. He said the pharmaceuticals had paid a lot of "hush money" but had never lost a case in court. I dropped the idea of suing them. Money would not have brought her back and would have been of little consolation. I had no will to sue our doctor. He acted in good faith based on information from the pharmaceutical company. Sadly, the information they provided excluded the notation that their drug, in some circumstances, induced people to take their own lives.

With or without drug influence there are those who think suicide is the best option. I can't justify that unless toward the end of life becomes intolerable. Nuff said.

I'm not looking for, nor do i expect sympathy for my post I'm simply stating what happened. **** happens, and we who survive it have to deal with it as best we can.
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I'm sorry for your loss and I'm not a fan of SSRIs and their results. Those opinions are from watching quite a lot of people who are prescribed them, and just a personal opinion. I know they do help a large number of people as well. The problem to me, is that when they go wrong, they go very wrong. Quickly.

I'm also of the opinion that the guy in the story doesn't appear to be suicidal, but he has some other sort of mental health issue. I'll leave it at that. He's dead, and he took someone out with him.

mondtster said:
Having textbook knowledge of procedures and airplane flying theory is one thing. Having actual stick and rudder skills, instrument flying skills, and some flight experience is quite another. I'd bet the average PoA participant is wildly average in the skill and experience department although I'd agree that they may be more book smart than the average non-participant.

The way people rip each other apart around here would lead a person to believe that everyone has above average skill and experience yet when you really read many of the comments it appears to me that the average experience level is relatively low and the breadth of that experience is relatively narrow. At least of the ones doing the majority of the posting...
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PoA and other online spots have replaced the old "hanging out at the airport" people used to do. I'd rather people do this than no socializing at all, really. The mix here is mostly weekend warrior GA pilots for sure, but that says more about cliques and Internet forum use than anything bad about the pilots. There's few here who wouldn't pass a checkride for their certificates again if it were a surprise requirement tomorrow.

Croomrider said:
Reading Kathryn's report for this accident it appears that both the pilot and pilot rated passenger had current class-3 medicals!
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Yep. Someone lied on a form. Happens.

Ted DuPuis said:
I have flown with a good number of PoA pilots over the past 10 years. For the most part, the pilots we have are better than the average pilot I've come across. Yes, there are some with whom I will not get in an airplane, but most I don't worry about.
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Same here for the most part.

Everskyward said:
I agree with this. I have flown with a few PoA folks locally and also at Gastons.
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If Mari got out of my airplane and wasn't concerned about anything I did, that would be high praise indeed. Haha. Not kidding either.

Clark1961 said:
Let it be widely known that Ted has never been in an airplane with me.
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LOL!
 
mondtster said:
I've always wondered how the average PoA pilot flys compared to the average pilot I see. With the way things are presented here online everyone here must be Bob Hoover Jr. except for me since they make no mistakes.

My bet is that the average pilot here is much like the average pilot that doesn't participate, even though it sure doesn't appear that way by what you read.
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I could not disagree more. My flying style can best be described as a series of dives into the Earth and missing... culminating with an attempt to stay airborne near my destination... and failing that as well.
 
This guy flies almost as good as KA550! :blowingkisses:
 
danhagan said:
Heard similar from San Antonio approach a few years ago. Pilot with thick Russian accent reporting "inbound landing" like it was a non-towered field (no other info). Controller over next 10 minutes tries to get an N number and location and the pilot just doesn't get it. Finally SAT approach issues a squawk, which the pilot does, and they get a location on him. They tell him to remain clear of the Class C, he responds "cleared into the class C" and the ugly starts again. It was nearly an hour of this total I heard inbound from El Paso to Stinson and they were dealing with him and a ton of traffic on a Saturday morning right before July 4th.
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SAT gets a LOT of foreign pilots because of the 141 schools there (and at SSF). I was based at SSF and had to deal with them coming down from SAT for practice.
 
mondtster said:
I've always wondered how the average PoA pilot flys compared to the average pilot I see. With the way things are presented here online everyone here must be Bob Hoover Jr. except for me since they make no mistakes.

My bet is that the average pilot here is much like the average pilot that doesn't participate, even though it sure doesn't appear that way by what you read.
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Reading the longest runway length for the Airport identifier is far below any private pilot skill level. Heck that's more in line with a 5 hour student pilot knowledge skills!

I get your point about how this board can crush pilots real fast but this is not the example you should use to make that point. This guy had it coming to him and broke about every line in the book!
 
If I ever had gotten in a plane with this nutter, I would exit at the first opportunity. Why the other pilot didn't take some action after the countless foul ups is completely mysterious to me. In this case, the alleged PIC, wasn't in command of himself, much less the aircraft. If somebody taxis into a ladder after not knowing what airplane he's in, I'd head to the FBO and get the hell out of Dodge.

I've taken action before when I felt the alleged PIC really wasn't up to the task. Cost me hard feelings from the "faulty stick actuator", aka pilot, but I'd rather be alive than a dead buddy of an incompetent aircraft driver.

Cheers
 
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