I hate marine layers

kimberlyanne546

Final Approach
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Jun 9, 2011
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Display name:
Kimberly
Whoever told you that California is the perfect place to fly . . . is . . . wrong!!!

Anyways, this past weekend - both Saturday and Sunday - plus almost every weeknight for several weeks - my flying has been affected by IFR conditions.

My instructor and I met on Thursday of last week for some practice checkride stuff. Then he told me that I would fly on Saturday (solo) to the exact same airport where I would hopefully one day pick up a DPE.

Not only did he want me to practice flying (and parking) the route which I would take to meet this guy in the future, but also I had calculated my only remaining "requirements" were 1.2 hours of solo. I am not sure about the "checkride prep" 3 hours requirement since we've been preparing for the checkride for weeks now. So I'm not going to worry about that requirement.

So I wake up on Saturday to find IFR conditions forecasted through the afternoon. I call the flight school and luckily nobody has the plane after I do, since I had planned a morning flight which will now be impossible. Conservatively, I book the plane from 1pm - 4pm but tell them they can contact me if anyone wants to use it. I show up and there are still clouds in Petaluma, but they are getting better. I decide to preflight and get gas and then contact the AWOS / ATIS to be sure I'm legal at both airports.

This was not "full" IFR. This was a case of the entire universe having blue skies - the entire universe except one stubborn cloud looming over Petaluma Airport and another stubborn cloud looming over Santa Rosa Airport. Not even many in between or to the South. It is like they were out to get me, these clouds. They only wanted to go where I needed to go that day.

Because it was indeed a nice day I tried not to worry too much about it (big mistake) and even my instructor said "if things haven't cleared up at Santa Rosa yet, but Petaluma is still VFR, just stay here and shoot a couple of shorts and softs before heading over to Santa Rosa."

Good idea, I thought.

So I go to the gas pump and both are in use by pilots. I realize how long it takes to fill up a plane with gas and I am not sure how to form a "line" or who to line up behind or if I should turn off my engine since I am getting charged Hobbs time. I choose to line up behind the guy who seems to be already mid-pump. The other guy hasn't even grounded his aircraft yet. Besides, mid pump guy has some sort of expiremental airplane that seems small and can't hold that much gas.

(mistake number two)

After what seems like forever I realize he is just standing there with 5 other guys talking about his plane and not fueling anymore. Finally he realizes I'm there (how could he not?) and hand pushes his tiny airplane a few feet away so at least I can pump. (grumble)

I fill my 152 with gas, well almost full, because I know someone has the plane at 4pm and I want to be nice. I hate it when I come out to an empty plane.

The winds seem fine and the clouds are gone and only after my takeoff did I realize that I FORGOT to call the ATIS for Santa Rosa from my cell phone! Oh no, I thought. So I get up in the sky and point the plane towards Santa Rosa which is about 18nm away to the North.

As I head to the North I think of the rule about being at least 500 feet below the clouds. I also know that I want to remain at least 1000 feet above the terrain. Petaluma has an elevation of 92 and Santa Rosa has an elevation of 128 so I am trying to fly at 1500 feet. Those pesky clouds, however, seemed to really be in my way. I tune in the ATIS for STS only to hear there is a ceiling of 1700 broken. Even though I would still be "legal" to fly VFR there it seems kind of marginal to me . . . which is because as I look towards the direction of the airport I cannot see past a certain point.

Add to all this the fact that a banner tow plane keeps circling the entire area where I want to fly. It looks like he is at least several hundred feet below my current altitude, but even so, it felt strange to fly that close to another aircraft.

With all of this going on I decide it would be best if I head back to Petaluma, shoot a couple of landings, and then try to fly north again to Santa Rosa. So I fly back, do a NICE short field landing (for what feels like the first time), and an OK soft field landing. I get back in the air again, check the ATIS again, and look at the clouds again. No improvement.

Then I have a new idea: fly around just outside of the class D airspace (can't climb above it due to clouds so I'm stuck to the south side of the wall of clouds) - and WAIT until the next ATIS comes out over the frequency. It said :53 so I figured I could kill 20 minutes doing something. But NOPE - that darned banner tow plane is still there. He must think I'm stalking him at this point as I try to go above him and away and around.

Another small plane flies overhead and I realize the importance of keeping my eyes outside the cockpit. My low altitude, the other planes close to me, and the solid wall of clouds are all making me somewhat nervous.

However, I have a mission objective here and gosh darn it I'm going to see if I can do it, safely and legally of course. I need to have the plane back by 4pm so when the new ATIS comes out at :53 and says "1700 scattered" instead of "1700 broken" I'm less than thrilled but I decide to go ahead. So I switch to tower frequency and realize they are somewhat busy. I let them know when I'm 8 miles out and I get there just fine. I think I may have gone too slow though since right before my landing I heard him tell another plane to go around.

I switch to ground and tell them I need to park at the Sonoma Jet Center. It is of course one of less than 5 times now I've ever gone to park the plane somewhere new. I feel kind of cool seeing all the actual JETS all around me. This line guy makes large hand gestures which I'm sure means I tried to get on the wrong ramp lines like three times but eventually I get where he is trying to park me and I am OK and shut off the plane. He comes over to chock my wheels and I tell him not to which confuses him as I try to explain why I'm faking a trip to the Jet Center. I start up again, go through the motions again (get the ATIS, dial in ground, dial in tower on standby etc). I depart and make it home with less than 30 seconds to spare but I am not late and the 4pm renter is happy I brought the 152 back on time.

I guess it was an "uneventful" flight but to me it was my first real weather experience. Nothing scary happened but it was just a reminder of the delays and other inconveniences I will have in the future as a VFR pilot. I am not complaining here about that, just learning. And since that may or may not be my last solo it was a bummer it wasn't more special and I feel that a lot of time was wasted in the air waiting for the clouds to lift. I do wish I could have been more productive and done some manuevers but that would not have been safe.

Oh well, live and learn. I am almost a pilot! Sunday and Monday and Tuesday were all supposed to be possible flight days (we were going to do a full length, pass / fail style mock checkride) but Sunday turned into a 2 hour mock oral since the IFR stuck around all day and we couldn't fly. Monday and Tuesday we forgot the plane was in the shop for mx (100 hour inspection). Now I am supposed to do that flight on Saturday morning. It should be a good test of where I am at (literally).
 
Learn to use your Class G airspace when it is available - makes some flights under the marine layer doable. Doesn't help you on a trip from 069 to STS though.

I would have just gone for it myself, but don't push your limits if you aren't comfortable with it.
 
Whoever told you that California is the perfect place to fly . . . is . . . wrong!!!

Not exactly. Those that say the weather in CA is perfect for flying have instrument ratings.

I love California flying, because I never need a safety pilot!

Don't worry - you'll get there.
 
Not exactly. Those that say the weather in CA is perfect for flying have instrument ratings.

I love California flying, because I never need a safety pilot!

Don't worry - you'll get there.

Shuttling between the Bay Area and the Central Valley, I'm usually assured of an approach in IMC at one end or the other at any given time of the year!
 
Whoever told you that California is the perfect place to fly . . . is . . . wrong!!!

I love southern California. It is indeed the perfect place to fly. It's just that the weather doesn't always cooperate.

(I know what you're getting at, I'm just ribbing you.)
 
From my perspective Kim, you are fortunate to be allowed to use PPL weather standards. Students where I trained cannot fly less than 4,000 ceilings and 5 miles viz (dual) or 4,000/10 miles and 10kt Xwind (solo).
 
From my perspective Kim, you are fortunate to be allowed to use PPL weather standards. Students where I trained cannot fly less than 4,000 ceilings and 5 miles viz (dual) or 4,000/10 miles and 10kt Xwind (solo).

Thanks - my solo endorsement actually has NO limitations! I guess he knows I'll make OK decisions. We did meet before I took off to discuss what to do if the weather got worse etc.
 
So you got the 1.2 required done now, good. Time for your check ride. BTW, you don't always need to be 1000'AGL to be legal, only in densely populated areas (basically the yellow places on your sectional). Outside of that, the requirements are to be able to execute a safe landing (not always possible regardless altitude) and stay more than 500' from people or man made structures, and that's measured as a radius dome of a half sphere.
 
Learn to use your Class G airspace when it is available - makes some flights under the marine layer doable. Doesn't help you on a trip from 069 to STS though.

I would have just gone for it myself, but don't push your limits if you aren't comfortable with it.

Puget Sound has more VFR days than So-Cal. (our marine layer is higher)
 
So you got the 1.2 required done now, good. Time for your check ride. BTW, you don't always need to be 1000'AGL to be legal, only in densely populated areas (basically the yellow places on your sectional). Outside of that, the requirements are to be able to execute a safe landing (not always possible regardless altitude) and stay more than 500' from people or man made structures, and that's measured as a radius dome of a half sphere.

I know but I actually met the banner tow pilot later (he came into my flight school and I took him to the mx hangar and helped him find string to tie up his banners). Turns out he was around 1,000 while I was at 1,500 or so. I told him I was the one stalking him and I guess he had flight following or something and ATC was constantly warning him about me even though I wasn't talking to anyone LOL.
 
I counted (manually) on the calendar and 90 days from my initial solo endorsement of May 7, 2011 would be something like tomorrow (August 4). Is it "three months" as in August 7th? Or is it "90 calendar days" as in August 4th or 5th timeframe? Either way I won't be able to solo anymore - or take my checkride - without an additional endorsement. Last time I asked my CFI about this he told me not to worry about anything. I hope he signs it when I see him on Saturday but you never know.
 
BTW, you don't always need to be 1000'AGL to be legal, only in densely populated areas (basically the yellow places on your sectional).

Or wherever the FAA decides to use the rule against you in the event of an accident or complaints.
 
I counted (manually) on the calendar and 90 days from my initial solo endorsement of May 7, 2011 would be something like tomorrow (August 4). Is it "three months" as in August 7th? Or is it "90 calendar days" as in August 4th or 5th timeframe? Either way I won't be able to solo anymore - or take my checkride - without an additional endorsement. Last time I asked my CFI about this he told me not to worry about anything. I hope he signs it when I see him on Saturday but you never know.

What is the wording in the FARs (teach a pilot to fish...)
 
I counted (manually) on the calendar and 90 days from my initial solo endorsement of May 7, 2011 would be something like tomorrow (August 4). Is it "three months" as in August 7th? Or is it "90 calendar days" as in August 4th or 5th timeframe? Either way I won't be able to solo anymore - or take my checkride - without an additional endorsement. Last time I asked my CFI about this he told me not to worry about anything. I hope he signs it when I see him on Saturday but you never know.
I had to get a second endorsement before my checkride too. Yes it is your CFI's decision and he could decide not to... but considering how much progress you've made and how close you seem to be, it should really be just a formality.
 
Good, real life, decision making experience. You done good :wink2:
 
What is the wording in the FARs (teach a pilot to fish...)

Solo flight (each additional 90-day period): section 61.87(n).
I certify that ([FONT=JFILBL+TimesNewRomanPS]First name, MI, Last name[/FONT]) has received the required training to qualify for solo flying. I have determined He/She meets the applicable requirements of section 61.87(n) and is proficient to make solo flights in ([FONT=JFILBL+TimesNewRomanPS]make and model[/FONT]).
[FONT=JFIKGN+TimesNewRomanPSMT][DATE] Instructor Name, 1234567CFI, Exp. 12/31/2010[/FONT]
 
Solo flight (each additional 90-day period): section 61.87(n).
I certify that ([FONT=JFILBL+TimesNewRomanPS]First name, MI, Last name[/FONT]) has received the required training to qualify for solo flying. I have determined He/She meets the applicable requirements of section 61.87(n) and is proficient to make solo flights in ([FONT=JFILBL+TimesNewRomanPS]make and model[/FONT]).
[FONT=JFIKGN+TimesNewRomanPSMT][DATE] Instructor Name, 1234567CFI, Exp. 12/31/2010[/FONT]

It's good for 90 days. 5-7 + 90 days is August 5th. You'll need a new endorsement to solo after that. I can't imagine why your instructor wouldn't write it for you.
 
In my experience, CA is about as close to perfect for flying as you can get within the continental US. From about May to October, the weather is almost always perfect in most of the state. Of course, if you're only talking about the coast line, things change - as they always do when the ocean comes into play.

My problem in CA is that I can't ever get enough IMC to stay current. The only time there is any significant IMC is in the winter, and then there are often icing concerns, especially in NorCal. I have done quite a few flights from LA to SF in the winter in IMC the entire time that were unproblematic, though. Helps to be able to read a skew-t in this area. If you want to do a challenging training XC, I suggest a flight to http://www.airnav.com/airport/AAT in the winter!

From Petaluma, you need to go just a few minutes inland to find pretty much perfect weather all summer long.
 
Be happy the marine layer keeps things cool in the summer and warm (relative to other parts of the country) in the winter. :)

I was in SF last week and wore a jacket every morning while reading about people baking elsewhere.
 
In my experience, CA is about as close to perfect for flying as you can get within the continental US.

Actually, it's about as far away as you can get in the Continental US. Florida is much better....:D Not to mention you can get in the ocean year round without a wetsuit.
 
It's good for 90 days. 5-7 + 90 days is August 5th. You'll need a new endorsement to solo after that. I can't imagine why your instructor wouldn't write it for you.

Jesse, I just realized I have other endorsements too. Not sure if they "override" the first or "reset" the count down?

Here is what I have:

1. On the day of my solo my instructor signed the back of my first class medical / student pilot certificate. That was May 7 2011 and it is good for 90 days.

2. On the day of my solo my instructor also signed a page in my log book under "initial solo endorsements". That was May 7, 2011 and it is good for 90 days.

3. On the day of my first solo cross country my instructor signed the back of my first class medical / student pilot certificate. That was July 9, 2011 (not sure the duration?)

4. On the day of my first solo cross country my instructor also signed a page in my log book under "Cross-Country Solo Endorsements." That was July 9, 2011 (not sure the duration?) and it said I am allowed to fly cross countries

5. On the day of my first solo cross country my instructor also signed a section below the solo cross country endorsement which detailed my exact cross country from O69 - KUKI on that exact day (July 9).

6. On the day of my second (and final) solo cross country my instructor also signed a section below the KUKI area which detailed my exact "long" cross country from O69 - KCIC - KSTS - O69 on that exact day (July 10).

7. On the day of my second (and final) solo cross country my instructor and I were concerned my transponder had issues so he also signed me to fly to the DPE airport (KSTS) in the other page: "Additional Airport Within 25nm Solo Endorsements". This was BACKDATED (wow odd I just saw that) to July 2 and I don't know why. Must be a mistake.


So I guess my question is does an item like #7 over-ride item #1 or do I have to get a new #1 this weekend?

Kimberly
 
Learn to use your Class G airspace when it is available - makes some flights under the marine layer doable. Doesn't help you on a trip from 069 to STS though.

I would have just gone for it myself, but don't push your limits if you aren't comfortable with it.

Thanks, Sac. It was my first time so I was nervous. I don't know what my "limits" are yet.
 
Jesse, I just realized I have other endorsements too. Not sure if they "override" the first or "reset" the count down?

Here is what I have:

1. On the day of my solo my instructor signed the back of my first class medical / student pilot certificate. That was May 7 2011 and it is good for 90 days.

2. On the day of my solo my instructor also signed a page in my log book under "initial solo endorsements". That was May 7, 2011 and it is good for 90 days.

3. On the day of my first solo cross country my instructor signed the back of my first class medical / student pilot certificate. That was July 9, 2011 (not sure the duration?)

4. On the day of my first solo cross country my instructor also signed a page in my log book under "Cross-Country Solo Endorsements." That was July 9, 2011 (not sure the duration?) and it said I am allowed to fly cross countries

5. On the day of my first solo cross country my instructor also signed a section below the solo cross country endorsement which detailed my exact cross country from O69 - KUKI on that exact day (July 9).

6. On the day of my second (and final) solo cross country my instructor also signed a section below the KUKI area which detailed my exact "long" cross country from O69 - KCIC - KSTS - O69 on that exact day (July 10).

7. On the day of my second (and final) solo cross country my instructor and I were concerned my transponder had issues so he also signed me to fly to the DPE airport (KSTS) in the other page: "Additional Airport Within 25nm Solo Endorsements". This was BACKDATED (wow odd I just saw that) to July 2 and I don't know why. Must be a mistake.


So I guess my question is does an item like #7 over-ride item #1 or do I have to get a new #1 this weekend?

Kimberly
No. Those basically add privileges to your ability to solo, but they do not extend the solo past the initial 90 day period. To extend the solo past the initial 90 day you'll need an endorsement calling out 14 CFR Part 61.87(n)

See Advisory Circular 61-65E.
 
Actually, it's about as far away as you can get in the Continental US. Florida is much better....:D Not to mention you can get in the ocean year round without a wetsuit.
Yes, I'll grant you that the water here, especially in the winter, is icy. But as far as flying goes - sure, FL is perfect if you like flying over boring flatlands and haze :D
 
Yes, I'll grant you that the water here, especially in the winter, is icy. But as far as flying goes - sure, FL is perfect if you like flying over boring flatlands and haze :D


Clears up nicely in about 15 minutes as I enter the Bahamas....;)
 
Don't sweat the STS DPE he is good and fair. I had several 90 day extensions due to money and ... you will get the sign off. We appear to have the burn off at 11 for the next 3 days so plan to sleep in if you are flying this week end :wink2:
STS notes:
I am parked down by DragonFly in the Butler building if you are wandering around behind the Sonoma JetCenter (N79021) . By the way the Line staff there has a bunch of CFIs (ask for Andy or Garrett) so you have a good support group if you fly in here and they are willing to help get you a PPL
 
Don't sweat the STS DPE he is good and fair. I had several 90 day extensions due to money and ... you will get the sign off. We appear to have the burn off at 11 for the next 3 days so plan to sleep in if you are flying this week end :wink2:
STS notes:
I am parked down by DragonFly in the Butler building if you are wandering around behind the Sonoma JetCenter (N79021) . By the way the Line staff there has a bunch of CFIs (ask for Andy or Garrett) so you have a good support group if you fly in here and they are willing to help get you a PPL

More local pilots! I attended a WINGS seminar regarding VFR cross countries by a DragonFly CFI, he seemed like a nice guy. Plus they have Tecnams, so I will be checking them out once I am a pilot.

Kimberly
 
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