I don't understand

[Alan]

Why do people have to be so dam#ed grouchy. What follows is an edited (the red letters are the edits) letter I'll be sending a FBO via registered mail in the morning. What could I have done to avoid this? This was at a "non-air carrier" airport. GA only...



Dear Sir/Madame:

I had an unfortunate experience at **** Jet Center this morning of which I think you should be aware.

I arrived at your town on Friday evening at around 8 PM. Knowing I may be arriving after closing, I emailed a few days earlier to ask where I should park and how to get in/out. I received a timely reply describing where I should park my aircraft (Cessna 421-C, N421DC) and how I could get out of the ramp area. I described to my passenger/friend how we were instructed to open the gate so that the gentleman picking us up could drive on the ramp to load our luggage. Loaded with the aircraft tied down, we left the airport until Tuesday morning without incident.

Upon arrival on Tuesday, the same friend was in the front passenger seat of the car that was delivering us to the plane and volunteered to “open the gate”. This gentleman is not a pilot and has little experience at FBO’s. Since he opened the gate on Friday night for us to depart, he assumed that he should do the same on Tuesday so we could load the plane to leave. When he opened the gate, the counter clerk came out of the door and confronted him for not having her open the gate. My friend apologized to her for not his error, but she continued to berate him. After a few minutes of watching this, I left the car and walked over to see what the problem was. She told me that we had violated airport rules by opening the gate without her permission. I too apologized and she then threatened to call the police. She demanded to know what aircraft I was in and I told her. She continued with her tirade until I volunteered (without sarcasm or bitterness) that we should drive the car back outside the gate and enter as she wished. My friend said he had already offered to do this but she wasn’t interested in this remedy. After informing me that I had to pay for the ramp time, she walked back inside. I have been to your town many times and have always paid my bill.

I gave the aircraft key to my friend and went inside to pay for the overnights. She then demanded my name and the name of the owner of the aircraft. I answered her questions and paid her with a credit card and left; buying fuel at your self serve because I didn’t want to have to deal with her again.

My friend was embarrassed and upset by her attack. I tried to tell him that it was an innocent mistake, but the actions of your clerk had visibly upset him. This gentleman is businessman and flies general aviation jets as a passenger, but he never has any responsibilities in interaction with the FBO in the office or on the ramp.

I ask that a letter of apology be written to him by you and this clerk. I did not dare ask her name, but she was on duty on Tuesday morning, June 7 at 9 AM.

He may have made an error, but both he and I apologized multiple times to her for his actions. I ask that she be required to do the same.

By the way, I was at your airport in the same aircraft on March 12, 2005 and your lineman (Marty, I think) hit my wingtip against a prop spinner of another aircraft and broke my nav light lens and strobe tube. The repairs required that we delay our departure 3 hours, with 4 men patiently waiting on the ramp. I did not complain and thanked them for dealing fairly with me. I didn’t berate the lineman for his mistake and told him accidents happen. Ask him about it, I’m sure he’ll remember.

My friends name and address is:

John Doe
232 Pleasant Dr.
Somewhere, KY 427**


Thank you for your prompt response to this matter,



Alan Bernard
My address

My phone #

 

[wsuffa]

I've seen a few of those. There really is no excuse.

Airport security may be a problem, though. I parked my car inside the first gate (and right next to the road, with the building between me and the ramp)at SAT one day to drop off keys to the plane at an avionics shop. I was in for less than 5 minutes, and the Airport cops were in the door, demanding my ID - all because I didn't have a piece of paper in the window stating I was at XXX company. Apparently the security folks at SAT have told that company that they are on a short list for eviction if there are more violations of the security procedure - even a stupid little procedure like a sign in the window.

 

[Henning]

Some people shouldn't be allowed to work in the service sector. She was lucky you weren't me, I don't put up with that for a minute, I would have been calling the owner of the FBO in.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Some people shouldn't be allowed to work in the service sector. She was lucky you weren't me, I don't put up with that for a minute, I would have been calling the owner of the FBO in.

Unfortunately in the new environment, all she would have to do is report a security threat and your troubles compound exponentially.

 

[Henning]

Unfortunately in the new environment, all she would have to do is report a security threat and your troubles compound exponentially.

Nope, local cop would see right through it. Besides, they had been given the proceedure for getting through the gate by the FBO. If there was a breech in security, it was on the part of the FBO for giving out the code. If she would have threatend me with cops, I would have told her to call, because her boss was gonna be in more throuble than me. Although since no aircarrier services that airport, I doubt anyone would have found the situation particularly interesting.

 

[Alan]

Some people shouldn't be allowed to work in the service sector. She was lucky you weren't me, I don't put up with that for a minute, I would have been calling the owner of the FBO in.

I thought about that, but she would have happily called the cops and my guy was torn up enough without having to deal with more. I won't let my passenger know that I'm sending the letter. I hope she has to call me personally.

If it's a securtiy threat during the day, why do they describe how to use the gate opener at night?

 

[Henning]

I thought about that, but she would have happily called the cops and my guy was torn up enough without having to deal with more. I won't let my passenger know that I'm sending the letter. I hope she has to call me personally.

If it's a securtiy threat during the day, why do they describe how to use the gate opener at night?

Exactly why I would have called her bluff. "Go ahead, call the cops, y'all gave me the code to open the gate, let's see who gets in **** with the Feds..."

 

[sere]

Exactly why I would have called her bluff. "Go ahead, call the cops, y'all gave me the code to open the gate, let's see who gets in **** with the Feds..."

I agree with you. I would of hit the press to test button in short order if it was just me. I understand where he had a customer on board that was a problem. Using the term "security" is no excuse for the lack of being a professional.

 

[RogerT]

Wow .. we've made airports so secure .. pilots and passengers
can't get into them. What a concept.

Can we have the name of the airport and FBO, Alan?

 

[Henning]

I agree with you. I would of hit the press to test button in short order if it was just me. I understand where he had a customer on board that was a problem. Using the term "security" is no excuse for the lack of being a professional.

Yeah, I guess it really does matter what kind of client you have. Most of my clients would have ate that girl for lunch, while she was still alive for added cruelty, she'd have been lucky to deal with me, I'm at least not cruel. She would call a cop, they would call their in house legal team faster, suite would be filed before the cop got there. The owner of the FBO would have shown up real quick and put an end to the nonsense. I just don't accept people in the service sector treating their clientelle like that. I don't accept it from my employees, and I especially don't accept from the employees of businesses I do business with. There are no Problems in the service sector.

 

[bbchien]

I just don't accept people in the service sector treating their clientelle like that. I don't accept it from my employees, and I especially don't accept from the employees of businesses I do business with. There are no Problems in the service sector.

Alan, I agree this person would have lasted precisely 2 minutes after this even, in my business. That's the time it takes to print the dismissal acknowledgement, to be signed so that I can release the final paycheck.

 

[spiderweb]

Alan, please keep us updated on this.

 

[woodstock]

you might want to point out in your letter that as you were given the code by the FBO, you certainly can't see how this is a security issue, gosh, I sure hope not, right? why would your esteemed FBO give out security codes to people they thought might be a threat?

 

[Alan]

There is no "code" as is with most FBO's. Just a button with a sign near it that says "Gate Opener". Real secure huh?

I want to give them an opportunity to reply before I identify them publicly. Heck, for all I know she owns the place . I've been treated rudely at this airport before. I seem to get the best treatment at FBO's of major airports, Midway, Love, Port of Columbus, Cleveland, etc.

I'll let you know if I hear from them within a week or so. I'll also put a note on Airnav if they don't respond favorably.

Here is the email message they sent me with the names blacked out:

Our hours of operation are from 0730 to 1930. If you need any services, such as fuel or after hours help (which costs $75.00 per hour), please call ***-***-**** x3 to speak with one of our customer service representatives. If you do not need assistance, you can park in front of the ********** restaurant (directly to the *********** Jet Center) in one of the available tie down spots. If you will be staying overnight, you may leave through the drive thru gate adjacent to ****** Jet Center. There is a button to let you out. Beware that you may not reenter the premesis once you leave for the night. If you have any additional questions feel free to give us a call. Hope this info helps.

 

[gkainz]

Our (my company's) American programmers are in at 9:02am and out at 5:58pm with 1:02pm for lunch. The foreign programmers we have sponsored on H1-B's visa's are in at 7:30am...out at 9pm...and eat lunch at their desk.

People get mad and say that foreign programmers are taking "American" jobs...but I'll tell ya...I'm much more likely to give that job to somebody who wants to work hard -- and I'll pay him or her 125% of what I'd pay an American -- because I get at least that much work out of them.

Show me an American who works like that, and I'll pay them the same....but they are few and far between.

"One.... two.... three... four... five... six... seven... eight... nine... ten..."

Ok, hot button here, Robert, since I'm an IT consultant impacted directly by your example above. Are these programmers you cite above hourly or salaried? I suspect, based on your example above, that they are salaried. Long ago, the last time I was a salaried employee, the industry standard for a typical work week was about 45 hours a week. Based on your example above, it appears that you are setting forth an expectation for a 65 hour work week as the norm, regardless of deadlines and priorities. So, how does that break down as an hourly rate? Seems a bit disingenuous to me to set that as the bar and then use the "American programmer" as a negative example. Setting that expectation is, in my opinion, stealing from the employee just as much as an employee not putting in his best efforts for his employer is stealing from the employer.

When my clients and I have a good working relationship, I usually end up billing them 40 hours for more than 40 hours of work. When the relationship is, let's say, strained, they get billed for every hour I put in.

To me, my personal time and family time is worth more than my billable hourly rate, so I will never fault someone for taking that position. On the other hand, someone who will not rise to the occasional crisis or deadline and give it everything he has for as long as it takes is not someone I choose to have on my team. But, pulling off a miracle this quarter usually means that miracles are now the minimum required level of effort for next quarter.

The IT Mantra: "We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, have done so much with so little for so long, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing!"

Hope this doesn't come across as a personal attack - it is not meant as such - just blowing off a little steam after a 14 hour day of fighting buggy software being passed off as production quality stuff.

 

[SkyHog]

"One.... two.... three... four... five... six... seven... eight... nine... ten..."

Ok, hot button here, ....

Did I miss something here?

 

[gkainz]

Did I miss something here?

Yeah, and I 'm missing something, too! Like, how did I quote a post and respond, and the post I responded to is nowhere to be found? ... gremlins....

 

[Greebo]

Yeah, and I 'm missing something, too! Like, how did I quote a post and respond, and the post I responded to is nowhere to be found? ... gremlins....

The post you responded to was later deleted by the person who wrote it, that's all.

 

[sierra]

The IT Mantra: "We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, have done so much with so little for so long, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing!" .

this is also the mantra of those of us in academic research. or QE.

 

[PoAdeleted5]

I'm an engineer of both hardware and software. I frequently come in at the crack of noon and go home at 7, 8, 9....4 am or later sometimes. Sadly, I have 240 hours of unused vacation time - more actually, I just can't accumulate more than that.

American. We literally have thousands of programmers, native-born Americans and immigrants. Most all of them work pretty hard.

I'm wondering if Bob pays them 25% *more* or 125% more than the others. Big difference there. I'd also warn him to be careful of the overtime situation, it could come back to haunt you. Voice of experience. Also, no human can keep up 14 hour days and be productive forever. But I reckon you can always toss 'em back where they came from when they burn out.

 

[Henning]

"The foreign programmers we have sponsored on H1-B's visa's are in at 7:30am...out at 9pm...and eat lunch at their desk."

Heck, I can't ask my crews to work those kind of hours, it's illegal for them (or me) to accept. They have to volunteer for more than 8 hrs and are not allowed more than 12. I wouldn't ask or expect those kind of hours anyway, they relate directly to mistakes, often costly and in my business, deadly. Typically a person that works those kind of hours on a regular basis is less productive than the 8-9 hr a day person because of fatigue and the related errors. Emergencies pop up and everybody puts in whatever they have to to get through it because all our lives depend on it, but outside of that, get your rest, both physical and mental.

 

[Brian Austin]

I wouldn't ask or expect those kind of hours anyway, they relate directly to mistakes, often costly and in my business, deadly. Typically a person that works those kind of hours on a regular basis is less productive than the 8-9 hr a day person because of fatigue and the related errors.

This is actually why I got OUT of programming. Employers expect more for less and, if they don't get it, bring someone else in to do the same job...for less, of course. Quantity over quality. Push more code out and let the users beta test for us.

And some of our worst mistakes were Thursday and Friday mistypes, wrong variables, screwed up subroutines, etc.. Those 14 hour days look good on paper but don't last on a quality scale.

What really, really irked me was the same supervisors who would expect you to work those long hours worked 8-4:30 and were never, ever around on the weekends. That's when I told my own boss to take his keyboard and shove it up.... never mind. You get the picture.

 

[RobertGerace]

Yeah; I deleted it almost immediately after I posted it. I knew it would make people mad. If you've never been on the other side of the table you don't understand.

I've been on both sides.

My idea of 125% is $125,000 per year in North (no traffic) Atlanta for some combination of ASP, .Net, c++, C#, Transact-SQL.

I think it's a good deal. I really don't care if the person is from Mars with purple stripes. If they background-check and work very hard, they will be very well compensated. If they come in and work 40 hours...they don't last.

For those who want that type of environment, it's a good deal for them. For those a little older with a family...my company is not the place for them.

But who says that I need to build and structure my company for the convenience of someone else?

 

[MSmith]

What really, really irked me was the same supervisors who would expect you to work those long hours worked 8-4:30 and were never, ever around on the weekends. That's when I told my own boss to take his keyboard and shove it up.... never mind. You get the picture.

How about me?

I work an 8-hour day, though I frequently work through lunch.

My bosses' boss tried to complain to my boss that I didn't work overtime (unpaid, as I am salaried) often enough. My boss replied (bless her heart) that I get more out of those 8 hours than any other 2 people put together achieve in 10 hours. Further, she expected (correctly) that I would be less productive when forced to work overtime for appearances - producing less in 10 hours than I had previously produced in 8.

Sorry, but I'm a "work harder, not longer" type of programmer. And I'm pretty offended by the now-deleted-but-quoted post.

 

[poadeleted3]

snip

For those who want that type of environment, it's a good deal for them. For those a little older with a family...my company is not the place for them.

But who says that I need to build and structure my company for the convenience of someone else?

So, what company, Bob? I'm assuming that since you don't want American family men working for you, you don't want us patronizing you either.

 

[RobertGerace]

Gentlemen,

You need not be offended. Every worker is his/her own small business.

Nobody owes you anything; and people who own companies have a right to demand whatever they want from their employees.

If you don't like or agree with what is being demanded of you; vote with your feet and leave. If, on the other hand, you welcome the opportunity to provide the precise and exact service your employer is looking for -- and feel you are being well compensated for it...embrace it and provide more...and you will likely be better compensated.

To say you are offended by an employer who demands more than 40 hours per week (whether your employer...or some other employer) is to imply that the world owes you something. Well, it doesn't.

You have literally millions of choices of places to work. You are free to seek out and work for any of them. Find one that works for you...

I'm offended that you guys are offended. My employees are happy...and banking an extra $25g a year. Most don't have relatives here and would rather be at work -- earning more money. Why should anybody have a right to say what I can do with my money?

 

[RobertGerace]

So, what company, Bob? I'm assuming that since you don't want American family men working for you, you don't want us patronizing you either.

Man, I really opened a can of worms here.

I never said I didn't want Americans working at my company...just that my view of American workers is that they (as a group) are lazy. We have some very hard working -- and very well compensated -- Americans working here. I would rather hire Americans for many reasons:

- loyalty to my country
- keeping U.S. money in the U.S
- no language barrier
- etc.

But business is business. People compete to work at my company...I don't seek out H1B-er's...it's just that they compete harder in my observations.

As to patronizing my company...well, that's kind of the whole point here now isn't it? I don't have a problem in the world if you don't want to spend your money at my company...after all it *is* your money and who am I to say what you do with it?

Being a business-to-business service, you would not be able to buy from my company unless you are a business...but still, I would not be offended if you didn't.

However, in the same way that I feel workers should be willing to do more than they are paid for...my customers feel that my company should provide more value than the competition at the same price...and don't have a care in the world when they are in meetings with my employees...and see deadlines met and expectations raised...not lowered.

 

[SJP]

This is actually why I got OUT of programming. Employers expect more for less and, if they don't get it, bring someone else in to do the same job...for less, of course. Quantity over quality. Push more code out and let the users beta test for us.

Amen.

I spend hours each day, debugging and reworking the badly written code, poor architectural designs, and downright laughable system integration produced by the low-cost resources management insist are more efficient, work harder, and cost less.

Of course, I still have to do all the work I was given after we took the coding, architecture and integration tasks away. and heaven forbid you try to call the original programmer to ask why they did something that way...

 

[RobertGerace]

"The foreign programmers we have sponsored on H1-B's visa's are in at 7:30am...out at 9pm...and eat lunch at their desk."

Heck, I can't ask my crews to work those kind of hours, it's illegal for them (or me) to accept. They have to volunteer for more than 8 hrs and are not allowed more than 12. I wouldn't ask or expect those kind of hours anyway, they relate directly to mistakes, often costly and in my business, deadly. Typically a person that works those kind of hours on a regular basis is less productive than the 8-9 hr a day person because of fatigue and the related errors. Emergencies pop up and everybody puts in whatever they have to to get through it because all our lives depend on it, but outside of that, get your rest, both physical and mental.

Henning,

BTW...I don't employ a pilot (yet). However, my comments were certainly not directed at pilots -- as far as working extra hours. Not only the legal issues that you cite, but also the safety issues you cite make it impractical to ask that from a pilot.

However, I would not have a care in the world about asking my pilot to load baggage, handle the maintenance on my airplane, get it washed, etc. I also would not have any problems asking him/her to reposition it on their kid's birthday.

The fact that they have a kid, and the fact that their kid has a birthday is not my problem. My problem is that I need my airplane repositioned today...not tomorrow or yesterday. If the pilot working for me tells me he 'can not' because he has family commitments...he's the wrong pilot for me.

Sigh; some will most likely be offended by this as well. To them I say...if you don't want to be away from home on your kid's birthday..either don't be a pilot...or take a 9-5 flying job.

However, if s/he is willing to work under the terms above, that has value to me, and I don't mind paying a premimum for it.

 

[Brian Austin]

You have literally millions of choices of places to work. You are free to seek out and work for any of them. Find one that works for you...

Which is exactly what I did. I didn't "demand" anything more. I just decided that this wasn't my type of work and left. The keyboard up the ... comment was because my supervisor defined the word a$$ to a T.

Employment is about priorities (heck, everything is about priorities). I choose a job where I have plenty of personal time, get paid well but not extraordinary for this position, and have flexibility to determine the course of both my professional and personal life.

To say that I'm "lazy" because I choose to work a job that requires a mere 50-60 hours a week is a slap in the face, imnsho. I've done the 70-90 hour a week jobs. I spend my evenings working in my shop vs sitting in front of a TV or coding on a computer. When we're down (thankfully not often due to some proactive stuff on my part), I'm at the office all night as needed.

Employ who you want to employ but don't call the rest of us "lazy" because we choose to have a life outside of a 10x10 cubicle.

 

[AdamZ]

WHOA! Is this what is referred to as Thread Creep?

More to the point Alan that was a Damn good letter! Keep us updated

 

[RobertGerace]

Brian,

Good points. I need to refine my comments. There are very hard working people who work 40 hours per week...and they are not lazy. I apologize for lumping all 40-a-week-ers into the 'lazy' category. That is not my true feeling.

However, in all cases where I've had people cutting corners and screwing off at work, they have been American workers. I need to say that I do not mean ALL American workers are lazy. My observation over 13 years of being an employer however is that all people who have been lazy and who have screwed off...have been American.

I just fired an American woman the other day. I got my 'Big Kahuna' report from Websense and saw that Joanna was spening two hours per day surfing the web. (Websense was a high-dollar item that I was forced to install because of Steve...another WASP sort of guy.)

It turned out that she was looking for apartments in Florida because she was getting ready to quit and move there. So, why not spend Robert Gerace's money for weeks looking for apartments.

We thought she had been blocked from actually finding a job (and getting paid by me to do it)...because we blocked job search sites. However, she was smater than me. She went to www.sneakysurf.com and was able to look for jobs without Websense stopping her.

So, my AMERICAN...GREAT WORKER Wide Area Network Administrator blocked 'Proxy Avoidance Sites' and now...we are no longer paying people to look for jobs...sigh...

On a side note, the WAN Admin works 40 hours per week -- in the office. He has a robust family life and also...using his awesome skills...has set up a VPN and all the tools necessary to do all of his work from home. He benefits because in reality he works 50 or 60 hours per week...and the rest of my company benefits because we can be anywhere and literally be connected to our secure, internal network...without worry.

BTW...he needs a company car because he travels around Atlanta to our remote computer sites / colocation centers, etc. He gives clients tours -- not in his job description, but...to my point...some extra value he offered. So, I leased him a car.

How many 27 year old WAN guys do you know who drive a fully-decked-out Cadillac CTS-V on top of an already very lucrative salary? It's what he wanted. I have a company full of those types of people...American, and several other nationalities...

 

[RobertGerace]

WHOA! Is this what is referred to as Thread Creep?

More to the point Alan that was a Damn good letter! Keep us updated

Another reason I deleted. I consider Alan a friend and didn't want to creap his tread.

To that end, I'm silent on the creeped issue from this post forward...Alan, I'm sorry...I hope we can get back to your thread.

 

[woodstock]

actually Adam, was your reply way above, THEIR reply to you? that's it? that's not what I would expect from them.

 

[grattonja]

Hours aren't always the relevant issue to how hard anyone works, either. I work in government, representing those charged with offenses. Much of the time, it is an 8:30 to 5 job, fairly long lunch hour, lots of time sitting at desk, doing fairly mindless stuff.

Then... I go to trial on a death penalty homicide. Hundreds of hours of prep work. Interviewing witnesses. Amazing that the GOOD witnesses have jobs and have to be met with during evenings. Time spent pouring over medical records that even docs can't read. Meeting with expert witnesses and trying to understand what they are talking about. Many hours go into a major case, whereas I am frequently cooling my heels at a desk when the major cases aren't going. Like now for example.

A month long trial. The stakes? In Pennsylvania, whether the guy I represent, all alone at that counsel table, lives or dies. I have heard three death verdicts in my time doing this. Jurors cry when they deliver it. The judge hides his face. I have gotten drunk with at least one of the DAs afterwards. During one of those trials, I work from something like 7am to 8 pm most days. I can eat anything I want, and I will lose 10 pounds in those 4 weeks. The stress is hell. But the adrenaline is a wicked ride, too.

Work is not all hours and slaving for the "man". Work can come in minutes of total stress when you have to make what may be a life or death call as a snap decision. I can't imagine what health care workers, like EMTs, must face for stress. My old best friend from forever is an EMT. Sleeps alot at work. Then goes and has to deal with the skiier who impacted a lift pole. Brains everywhere.

Oh, by the way, I don't care how important the case, nor do I care how much you pay me. My 6 year old daughter is more important than the case, more important than your business, more important than anything else to me. After your business is bankrupt, after my client is dead in a prison grave or elsewhere, after I am gone, she is here. Hopefully telling her grandchildren about the time she and I went flying out for dinner on a beautiful summer day. Maybe while she is flying one of them out to lunch somewhere. 50 years from now. Now that is time value.

And, to get away from the ugly thread creep here, that I just added to, had I been alone at that FBO, there is no way I would have put up with that crap. Not for a second. That lady would have had her head flattened as I went over her to a supervisor, who would have been less than happy to see me. And I post frequently on Airnav. I understand about respecting the passenger/client also.

Jim G

Edit: Sorry. I see that we have called this issue on account of thread creep. I shall say no more. Jim

 

[RobertGerace]

Why do people have to be so dam#ed grouchy. What follows is an edited (the red letters are the edits) letter I'll be sending a FBO via registered mail in the morning. What could I have done to avoid this? This was at a "non-air carrier" airport. GA only...

I think AirNav is our most important tool regarding these matters. At least in the East, we have so very many choices for airports that we don't have to put up with this crap.

Very little sucks more in aviation than to plan a stop at an airport...get there...have have crappy service or facilities.

Alan, if you don't want to publish the name of the airport, please do post on AirNav if you don't get satisfaction.

 

[MSmith]

I just fired an American woman the other day. I got my 'Big Kahuna' report from Websense and saw that Joanna was spening two hours per day surfing the web. (Websense was a high-dollar item that I was forced to install because of Steve...another WASP sort of guy.)

It turned out that she was looking for apartments in Florida because she was getting ready to quit and move there. So, why not spend Robert Gerace's money for weeks looking for apartments.

We thought she had been blocked from actually finding a job (and getting paid by me to do it)...because we blocked job search sites. However, she was smater than me. She went to www.sneakysurf.com and was able to look for jobs without Websense stopping her.

So, my AMERICAN...GREAT WORKER Wide Area Network Administrator blocked 'Proxy Avoidance Sites' and now...we are no longer paying people to look for jobs...sigh...

My employer blocks proxy sites, but does not block job search sites. Nor have they taken action against someone using job search sites.

Does it really matter if the person quits or you fire them? I thought that you were in better shape legally if they quit.

If they don't like working for you so much that they're searching for new jobs on the web, don't you want to help them along rather than hinder them?

On the other hand, if you feel you must control your worker's every minute - is it any surprise that some want to leave?

 

[RobertGerace]

Mark,

To avoid thread creep...I have replied to your post in a new Hangar Talk thread, "American Workers [NA]"

 

[MSmith]

Yeah, sorry about that. I didn't see the Thread Creep before I posted my last.

And Alan - it really is a good letter! Let us know what happens.

 

[gkainz]

However, if s/he is willing to work under the terms above, that has value to me, and I don't mind paying a premimum for it.

Not to beat a dead horse, but your premium logic just doesn't wash for me, Robert. If you demand an extra 25% or more in hours worked and justify it by a 25% pay premium, it's not a premium, it's just a recipe for burnout, in my opinion. BTDT...the money just isn't worth the pain.