Hurricane Relief Flight- Post Dorian

Mooney Fan

Mooney Fan

Cleared for Takeoff
PoA Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
1,184
Location
Indian Mound, TN
Display Name
Mooney Fan
Home Airfield
KHVC
Question for if Dorian makes landfall in the US

Anyone familiar with the group(s) that fly in supplies after the storm? I know PAWS will be busy but I'm also looking into other ways to help.

Thx
 
Operation Airlift. They have a huge GA relief organization. The head guy is very active on Beechtalk. I think they either are or will be a 501c group.
 
Do you mean the legitimate groups bringing insulin in on C-130s or the groups using light GA aircraft to bring in toilet paper? LOL

Having been through a bunch of the FEMA courses for planning such things, I had to ask. LOL.

Minus flooding that closes or destroys ALL roads in and out of an area, aviation is the worst possible way to bring supplies into a disaster area.

Expensive, carries little, etc.
 
denverpilot said:
Do you mean the legitimate groups bringing insulin in on C-130s or the groups using light GA aircraft to bring in toilet paper? LOL

Having been through a bunch of the FEMA courses for planning such things, I had to ask. LOL.

Minus flooding that closes or destroys ALL roads in and out of an area, aviation is the worst possible way to bring supplies into a disaster area.

Expensive, carries little, etc.
Click to expand...


I’ll bet GA can get those supplies there much quicker and to more inaccessible areas though. An Army of GA can do a lot collectively. Realize, they are volunteering so cost is a moot point. Supplies, being moved rapidly. The Op Airdrop is really only to get the ball rolling till heavy movers get in. Kinda like quikclot....stops the bleed till higher care takes over.
 
Unit74 said:
I’ll bet GA can get those supplies there much quicker and to more inaccessible areas though. An Army of GA can do a lot collectively. Realize, they are volunteering so cost is a moot point. Supplies, being moved rapidly. The Op Airdrop is really only to get the ball rolling till heavy movers get in. Kinda like quikclot....stops the bleed till higher care takes over.
Click to expand...

That’s the theory anyway. Same theory behind all the ham radio volunteers that mostly get in the way.

Three days maximum for the need for light GA, if at all. And usually not at all. Not in real planning for any serious sized city.

It’s kinda the kiddie pool, not to be too mean about it. The real planners are getting the heavy equipment staged within a day’s drive to hit the roads and power long before the crap hits the fan, and can’t really count on any particular GA organization to really really really be anywhere or hit a time table.

Not to mention the mess GA flights make for the low level SAR folks and ATC.

The joke in real planning about the ham radio groups goes, “ARES, getting in the way since 19XX”, insert whatever year you like.

It’s not meant as an insult — it’s a nice thing to try to do — but unless you’re showing up with thousands of pounds of medical supplies, water, or food, you’re a group filling in on the fringes for “comfort” not “life safety”. After three days, the bulldozers are in and main roads are being cleared or repaired to get the heavy hitters on eighteen wheels in.

There always can be little tiny cut off pockets where GA caravans are better, but ironically a Caravan or two is going to handle that better than a fleet of Bonanzas. Call up Fedex or UPS and they’ll have a regional over there and the job done before “XyZ Volunteer Pilots Group” from three states away even arrives.
 
denverpilot said:
That’s the theory anyway. Same theory behind all the ham radio volunteers that mostly get in the way.

Three days maximum for the need for light GA, if at all. And usually not at all. Not in real planning for any serious sized city.

It’s kinda the kiddie pool, not to be too mean about it. The real planners are getting the heavy equipment staged within a day’s drive to hit the roads and power long before the crap hits the fan, and can’t really count on any particular GA organization to really really really be anywhere or hit a time table.

Not to mention the mess GA flights make for the low level SAR folks and ATC.

The joke in real planning about the ham radio groups goes, “ARES, getting in the way since 19XX”, insert whatever year you like.

It’s not meant as an insult — it’s a nice thing to try to do — but unless you’re showing up with thousands of pounds of medical supplies, water, or food, you’re a group filling in on the fringes for “comfort” not “life safety”. After three days, the bulldozers are in and main roads are being cleared or repaired to get the heavy hitters on eighteen wheels in.

There always can be little tiny cut off pockets where GA caravans are better, but ironically a Caravan or two is going to handle that better than a fleet of Bonanzas. Call up Fedex or UPS and they’ll have a regional over there and the job done before “XyZ Volunteer Pilots Group” from three states away even arrives.
Click to expand...

New Bern and the test of eastern NC was shut off from the rest of the world for several days after Hurricane Florence. If I had a C-130, I’d bring it. But I work with what I got.
 
denverpilot said:
That’s the theory anyway. Same theory behind all the ham radio volunteers that mostly get in the way.

Three days maximum for the need for light GA, if at all. And usually not at all. Not in real planning for any serious sized city.

It’s kinda the kiddie pool, not to be too mean about it. The real planners are getting the heavy equipment staged within a day’s drive to hit the roads and power long before the crap hits the fan, and can’t really count on any particular GA organization to really really really be anywhere or hit a time table.

Not to mention the mess GA flights make for the low level SAR folks and ATC.

The joke in real planning about the ham radio groups goes, “ARES, getting in the way since 19XX”, insert whatever year you like.

It’s not meant as an insult — it’s a nice thing to try to do — but unless you’re showing up with thousands of pounds of medical supplies, water, or food, you’re a group filling in on the fringes for “comfort” not “life safety”. After three days, the bulldozers are in and main roads are being cleared or repaired to get the heavy hitters on eighteen wheels in.

There always can be little tiny cut off pockets where GA caravans are better, but ironically a Caravan or two is going to handle that better than a fleet of Bonanzas. Call up Fedex or UPS and they’ll have a regional over there and the job done before “XyZ Volunteer Pilots Group” from three states away even arrives.
Click to expand...
Even if true, I'm not sure there's any positive effect of posting it.
 
Morgan3820 said:
New Bern and the test of eastern NC was shut off from the rest of the world for several days after Hurricane Florence. If I had a C-130, I’d bring it. But I work with what I got.
Click to expand...
Indeed. Anyone who believes you only need the 'recommended' 3 days of water (3/g for each person) is enough, you're in denial.
 
I know many of the boarded members of Operation Airdrop. Great people, highly motivated and organized.
 
AggieMike88 said:
I know many of the boarded members of Operation Airdrop. Great people, highly motivated and organized.
Click to expand...


And get supplies on ground before the storm clouds have moved on...... I'm sure those in need can attest to the value of those pilots, even if they never know where the supplies came from.
 
AggieMike88 said:
I know many of the boarded members of Operation Airdrop. Great people, highly motivated and organized.
Click to expand...

As are all sorts of volunteer organizations. Nobody argued that. Read the post very carefully without any assumptions about what it said.

If you’re arriving with a SAR asset, you’re on the A list. If you’re arriving with lifesaving goods you’re on the B list. If you’re arriving with diapers and TP you’re on the C list.

Same with sizes of cargo space compared to available infrastructure to move it on. If the runway will take a Metroliner, or an ATR from a regional Purple or Brown affiliate, or a C-130 from a Guard unit we already have on speed dial, A list.

This is straight from the ICS materials, and isn’t intended to “offend” anyone arriving with TP. You’ll be on the air ops planning whiteboard somewhere. It just won’t be at the top unless there’s a 2500’ runway and that’s the only thing near the hospital that wasn’t evacuated. It’s okay.

Even then, that Caravan flown by a pro crew is looking better on the list. It’s just the way it works.

Tabletop exercises for these sorts of things are enlightening. Air Branch is usually the last asked to bring things in and only when there’s absolutely no other way. It’s too much coordination and effort for too little material.

The same thing happens on the Comm side which I’ve done far more tabletops for.
 
I don’t know @denverpilot, you might be right.

But, when I flew relief missions last year, I carried far more than TP in my Cherokee 6. Several flights with 4 ground relief operators and their gear into a 1700 foot airstrip. Multiple trips with water, gas, oil, food, chainsaws and various other things.

The people we met, cut off from rescue services, tired, thirsty, hungry seemed to be pretty happy we were there.

You’re right @denverpilot, my effort are barely a drop of water in the glass that is the over all relief efforts; hardly a hill of beans. There’s no news coverage; no glory; no reward.

But, please excuse me as I get ready for the next chance to help.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
drjcustis said:
I don’t know @denverpilot, you might be right.

But, when I flew relief missions last year, I carried far more than TP in my Cherokee 6. Several flights with 4 ground relief operators and their gear into a 1700 foot airstrip. Multiple trips with water, gas, oil, food, chainsaws and various other things.

The people we met, cut off from rescue services, tired, thirsty, hungry seemed to be pretty happy we were there.

You’re right @denverpilot, my effort are barely a drop of water in the glass that is the over all relief efforts; hardly a hill of beans. There’s no news coverage; no glory; no reward.

But, please excuse me as I get ready for the next chance to help.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That’s good! Someone knew to use the little aircraft. Or had absolutely no bigger resources left to go to the small airport. Or told the locals to coordinate it directly as to what they needed.

Was that day one, day three, or day six? Just curious. The tabletops change dramatically in a single week.

You get much further down the list away from continued evac and SAR (sometimes it’s better to keep getting people OUT who were told to leave a week prior than to try to logistically support then in-place, at least until lifesaving is completed - it all depends on size and scope) and into recovery as days go on.

Those decisions can even be neighborhood by neighborhood depending on how far recovery assets are away and when they’ll be able to get there.

Chainsaws and fuel sounds like “recovery” not initial attack and lifesaving. That’s why I ask. Truly curious.
 
Mission flight international is a group I hope to be joining soon.
 
denverpilot said:
That’s good! Someone knew to use the little aircraft. Or had absolutely no bigger resources left to go to the small airport. Or told the locals to coordinate it directly as to what they needed.

Was that day one, day three, or day six? Just curious. The tabletops change dramatically in a single week.
.
Click to expand...
Day 1-3 Well there is the problem of when the A team can't get to you and they are only 90 miles up the road.
help.jpg

And when was the last time you found a 911 system to handle 20,000 calls for water rescue?

It takes 5 days for the ICS to get up and going do you just let the people sit in their adult diapers?
 
This is the funniest picture I have. Ask yourself this question? Were are you going to put the people on the little rubber boat. Now refocus to the boat in the background and see how many people you can get on that boat.
diveteam.jpg
 
I mean they look cool and everything fully kitted out... but I will take the random guy in a bass boat any day to your supposed A team
 
Looks like you can get 7 people on a bass boat.20170831_184624.jpg
 
There aren’t bulldozers and 18 wheelers in the places this storm hit. GA will be a big help getting supplies to the out islands.
 
After 48 hours of pounding, there will be no infrastructure left. I would suggest evacuating all non able people to somewhere there is something left to work with.
 
flybill said:
There aren’t bulldozers and 18 wheelers in the places this storm hit. GA will be a big help getting supplies to the out islands.
Click to expand...
Just from watching the storm, and reports, Grand Bahama Airport is likely wiped out. I would be very surprised if the runway, already only yards away from the water in places, survived the day long intense surge, West End is likely still there, but the road toFreeport has been cut in the port area.

That leaves the closed runway at the old radar station, that has not been maintained for decades, but it is miles away from the town. Probably ok for mil stuff that is used to that environment, but not GA.

You must also consider that you will have to deal with the Bahamian Government, which seems almost disfunctional even in good circumstances.
 
Last edited:
Every little bit helps someone. AirDrop is an independent organization, so they aren’t really working through FEMA or any state agencies in an ICS structure. The only constraint they might have is if someone closes an airport they want to use, but that doesn’t really happen.

Reminds me a bit of Dunkirk. If everyone had said “oh, only the big ships should be used”, lots of men would have died.
 
yetti said:
After 48 hours of pounding, there will be no infrastructure left. I would suggest evacuating all non able people to somewhere there is something left to work with.
Click to expand...


There is more truth to this than most realize. Grand Bahama has basically been wiped clean. Consider it development of raw land at this point.
 
The problem is the BHS air system is unable to handle more than a few aircraft at any one time. With proper airspace control, it can be done. But anyone who has flown in the BHS area already knows that before the Cane hit, it was the Wild West. After the cane, it’s more like Thunderdome.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top