Hung up my wings

C

collinnewberry

Filing Flight Plan
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Jan 26, 2014
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MuffinPilot
Like the title indicates, I hung up my professional pilot wings back in 2012 for a career as an officer in the Army. Unfortunately I am not a pilot in the Army which makes life a little sadder. I was DQ'd from my flight physical when I attempted to fly for the Marine Corp. After a depressing year I found myself back in college in the Army ROTC Unit. I was also a flight instructor for the university I was attending. I had to say good-bye to my flying job when I reported for active duty. I decided that being an officer in the Army was a better decision financially for my family as college and flight training had left me with $100,000+ student loan bill, and being an officer was always an ambition of mine. Now I fly a desk in Korea and often wish I had my crappy paying flight instructor job back. I'll never get to be a military aviator as I had always wanted and have accepted that. I will go back to the world of professionally flying when I retire from the Army. In the meantime I really don't know what to do besides hit up the local FBOs when I get the chance, but keeping my knowledge base sharp as well is also a concern (the flying club in Osan, AFB is 3 hours away). I'm a low time pilot (TT450) and really don't want to re-enter the flying world as still a low time pilot. What has anyone else done who have had to furlough their aviation career for an extended period of time? What do you/I do when finally get to fly professionally again at such low pilot time? Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks
 
collinnewberry said:
Like the title indicates, I hung up my professional pilot wings back in 2012 for a career as an officer in the Army. Unfortunately I am not a pilot in the Army which makes life a little sadder. I was DQ'd from my flight physical when I attempted to fly for the Marine Corp. After a depressing year I found myself back in college in the Army ROTC Unit. I was also a flight instructor for the university I was attending. I had to say good-bye to my flying job when I reported for active duty. I decided that being an officer in the Army was a better decision financially for my family as college and flight training had left me with $100,000+ student loan bill, and being an officer was always an ambition of mine. Now I fly a desk in Korea and often wish I had my crappy paying flight instructor job back. I'll never get to be a military aviator as I had always wanted and have accepted that. I will go back to the world of professionally flying when I retire from the Army. In the meantime I really don't know what to do besides hit up the local FBOs when I get the chance, but keeping my knowledge base sharp as well is also a concern (the flying club in Osan, AFB is 3 hours away). I'm a low time pilot (TT450) and really don't want to re-enter the flying world as still a low time pilot. What has anyone else done who have had to furlough their aviation career for an extended period of time? What do you/I do when finally get to fly professionally again at such low pilot time? Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks
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First post.......... Welcome to POA..:cheers:

Ps.... How did you run up a 100,000$ student loan bill...:confused:
 
Since your in the army you can count on moving a a fairly regular basis ( like this is a surprise :)) At your next assignment look at instructing locally and that should meet your need for flying as well as keep you skills current.
 
Are you doing 20 years? Flying clubs when they are close, keep the CFI renewed, try to use it, you'll be fine. Although it sounds like a bad career choice if you are hating it already.
 
bartmc said:
Not that hard to do, my sister managed $50K and she didn't log a single hour of flight time.
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I'm sorry, but I have a bit of skepticism about the validity of those huge student loans. I had a client that ran up over $30,000 in veterinary services over two years. She always paid late. She would bring in stray animals and beg us to wait until her "student loan" came in. She always paid us from those loans, but I am sure she is still paying the loans today (10 years later), unless she got some sort of forgiveness.

Student loans are one thing. Student lifestyle loans are another. I know kids living in executive suites that they are paying for with student loans. I worked pumping gas (back in the days of full service gas stations) and waiting tables and tending bar in order to pay for my education. It took me 7 years to get my 4 yr degree, but I graduated debt free. And I ate a lot of beans and used a lot of 2 for 1 coupons. The average veterinary student graduates with almost $200,000 debt. That is hard to pay off with a $65k salary.
 
bartmc said:
Yup, and she managed to do it at one of the most affordable universities in America…. and that was 10 years ago.
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I went to University of Nevada, Reno in the 90s (I had lived in Nevada nearly my whole life). I think between classes and books, it cost me about $8,000 for 4 1/2 years. I paid cash and took no debt.

$20K a year seems very expensive when mine was under $1000 per semester.
 
Student loan debt exceeds credit card debt in this country. It is a big black hole that doesn't have a lot of awareness. These people won't be able to buy your house or your plane when you are ready to move on. They already have mortgages on nothing.
 
To the OP, I apologize for getting off topic.
And I want to commend and thank you for your service. Your military career is nothing to be ashamed of. Quite the contrary. As someone else said, you career will take you to many places. Some better than others, but you will learn from all of them and become a better person. If you want to continue to fly, you just need to make that your priority. It will be easier or harder at different times and places. But keep your goal in mind. And in the meantime, be the best you can at what you are doing. It is appreciated.


JOhnH said:
I'm sorry, but I have a bit of skepticism about the validity of those huge student loans. I had a client that ran up over $30,000 in veterinary services over two years. She always paid late. She would bring in stray animals and beg us to wait until her "student loan" came in. She always paid us from those loans, but I am sure she is still paying the loans today (10 years later), unless she got some sort of forgiveness.

Student loans are one thing. Student lifestyle loans are another. I know kids living in executive suites that they are paying for with student loans. I worked pumping gas (back in the days of full service gas stations) and waiting tables and tending bar in order to pay for my education. It took me 7 years to get my 4 yr degree, but I graduated debt free. And I ate a lot of beans and used a lot of 2 for 1 coupons. The average veterinary student graduates with almost $200,000 debt. That is hard to pay off with a $65k salary.
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collinnewberry said:
Like the title indicates, I hung up my professional pilot wings back in 2012 for a career as an officer in the Army. Unfortunately I am not a pilot in the Army which makes life a little sadder. I was DQ'd from my flight physical when I attempted to fly for the Marine Corp. After a depressing year I found myself back in college in the Army ROTC Unit. I was also a flight instructor for the university I was attending. I had to say good-bye to my flying job when I reported for active duty. I decided that being an officer in the Army was a better decision financially for my family as college and flight training had left me with $100,000+ student loan bill, and being an officer was always an ambition of mine. Now I fly a desk in Korea and often wish I had my crappy paying flight instructor job back. I'll never get to be a military aviator as I had always wanted and have accepted that. I will go back to the world of professionally flying when I retire from the Army. In the meantime I really don't know what to do besides hit up the local FBOs when I get the chance, but keeping my knowledge base sharp as well is also a concern (the flying club in Osan, AFB is 3 hours away). I'm a low time pilot (TT450) and really don't want to re-enter the flying world as still a low time pilot. What has anyone else done who have had to furlough their aviation career for an extended period of time? What do you/I do when finally get to fly professionally again at such low pilot time? Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks
Click to expand...

I started flying in Korea a long time ago. There was a CFI in a similar situation as yours. He ran a ground school in TDC every couple months and would collect us students up and we'd all bus down to Osan for the weekend. He'd reserve a plane for the weekend and each student would fly once or twice each day, he'd log 10-12 hours for the weekend. Most students didn't finish up in Korea but rotated back and some finished up back here. Most just checked off a bucket list item and did something else but he stayed in the game and got some interesting hours flying in Korea. I think he got about 200 hours in 13 months...

Also, check at your local airfield, there are a lot of aircraft moving around the country and it was surprisingly easy to hop a ride on a UH60 to Osan or Pyongtaek to avoid the bus.

...just an idea to hold you over till you get back...
 
DesertNomad said:
I went to University of Nevada, Reno in the 90s (I had lived in Nevada nearly my whole life). I think between classes and books, it cost me about $8,000 for 4 1/2 years. I paid cash and took no debt.

$20K a year seems very expensive when mine was under $1000 per semester.
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You're not accounting for dorm/apartment, transportation and food either.

I graduated 2003, tuition has more than doubled since then, probably quadrupled since you were there. i did exactly as you did. Though I had to take a loan for books and tuition for one semester it was less than 3K. in state/out of state makes a big difference too.

Here's your fall 2013 tuition for UNR.

http://www.unr.edu/tuition-and-fees/fall-fees

call it 200/hour @15hs per semester and you have $3,000 in tuition for one semester, non resident is $7,000 per semester.

Then you can start adding on the mandatory fees.

Non refundable Application Fee $60.00
Health Center (enrolled in 6 credits or more) $90.00
Counseling Services (enrolled in 6 credits or more) $35.00
Undergraduate New Student Fee $130.00
Student Union Fee Undergraduate (enrolled in 4 or more credits) $94.00
Performing Arts Fee All Students (enrolled in 1 or more credits) $5.00
Academic Success Fee Undergraduate (enrolled in 1 or more credits) $25.00

and there's some others if you're an engineering, out of state or international student.

Oh and med students pay $27,000 per semester.
 
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collinnewberry said:
Like the title indicates, I hung up my professional pilot wings back in 2012 for a career as an officer in the Army. Unfortunately I am not a pilot in the Army which makes life a little sadder. I was DQ'd from my flight physical when I attempted to fly for the Marine Corp. After a depressing year I found myself back in college in the Army ROTC Unit. I was also a flight instructor for the university I was attending. I had to say good-bye to my flying job when I reported for active duty. I decided that being an officer in the Army was a better decision financially for my family as college and flight training had left me with $100,000+ student loan bill, and being an officer was always an ambition of mine. Now I fly a desk in Korea and often wish I had my crappy paying flight instructor job back. I'll never get to be a military aviator as I had always wanted and have accepted that. I will go back to the world of professionally flying when I retire from the Army. In the meantime I really don't know what to do besides hit up the local FBOs when I get the chance, but keeping my knowledge base sharp as well is also a concern (the flying club in Osan, AFB is 3 hours away). I'm a low time pilot (TT450) and really don't want to re-enter the flying world as still a low time pilot. What has anyone else done who have had to furlough their aviation career for an extended period of time? What do you/I do when finally get to fly professionally again at such low pilot time? Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks
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Well Marine Corps would have been cool but I can tell you that if you got accepted in the Army, you would hate it. You'd still be flying a desk while the warrants are out flying. Very few commissioned stay in after their initial obligation. Not a single one of my commissioned friends went on to fly after the Army either. They just don't get enough hours while they're in.

Since you said you're going to retire, you've got 20 yrs to work at building hours. If you can make it to 20, use your GI Bill for any additional ratings you might need. Heck, get a rotorcraft rating while you're at it just to build the extra time. Get out in your mid 40s and hopefully you have a shot at flying professionally. Oh, not sure what your med DQ was but if it prevented you from getting a military class I, it might prevent you from getting an FAA Class I or II. Just something to think about.
 
I was curious too. What issue DQ'd you from military flying, but you can keep your civil medical?

The only thing I can think of is vision. Not 20/20 uncorrected.
Military wants perfect vision to get into the program. FAA allows glasses or contacts.
 
Velocity173 said:
...... Oh, not sure what your med DQ was but if it prevented you from getting a military class I, it might prevent you from getting an FAA Class I or II. Just something to think about.
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Yeah......... That was my first thought too...:confused:
 
BillTIZ said:
I was curious too. What issue DQ'd you from military flying, but you can keep your civil medical?

The only thing I can think of is vision. Not 20/20 uncorrected.
Military wants perfect vision to get into the program. FAA allows glasses or contacts.
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I don't know about other services, but USN and USMC are both only requiring 20/40 uncorrected, correctable to 20/20 these days. Astigmatism could be an issue, but with LASIK/LASEK being allowed now, it isn't as much of a show stopper as it used to be in the old days.
 
jtheune said:
Since your in the army you can count on moving a a fairly regular basis ( like this is a surprise :)) At your next assignment look at instructing locally and that should meet your need for flying as well as keep you skills current.
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What John said! And welcome to POA!
 
I was in your situation 8 years ago in college. I'm an Army Officer as well, but don't fly. I always thought about it but never wanted to fly as a career scared that one day I'd fall out of love with what I truly love to do. At the time, it was 20/20 uncorrected so I knew I couldn't fly in the Army.

Yes, I move every 2-3 years, but I fly everywhere I go. Texas, Kansas, VA, DC and now WA. I have a friend flying in Korea locally renting and can give you his info. I have 225TT and started my flying in college while doing ROTC. Yes, I was on a ROTC scholarship, but I still had student loans and paid for my own flight training which none was from scholarship or loan money.

I am slowly working towards my Commercial and then my CFI to part-time instruct everywhere I go. I slowly build my hours paying for each and every one. I would love to do a club or partnership, but moving so often does not make it beneficial with most buy-ins. I'm seriously looking to hopefully buy a DA40 if I can convince my wife it's a "good idea." :rolleyes: My aviation goal is when I do 20 and retire, I will have enough hours for my ATP and can get a flying job for fun at 42 when I retire for the military and hope someone will hire an old fart pilot. :D



collinnewberry said:
Like the title indicates, I hung up my professional pilot wings back in 2012 for a career as an officer in the Army. Unfortunately I am not a pilot in the Army which makes life a little sadder. I was DQ'd from my flight physical when I attempted to fly for the Marine Corp. After a depressing year I found myself back in college in the Army ROTC Unit. I was also a flight instructor for the university I was attending. I had to say good-bye to my flying job when I reported for active duty. I decided that being an officer in the Army was a better decision financially for my family as college and flight training had left me with $100,000+ student loan bill, and being an officer was always an ambition of mine. Now I fly a desk in Korea and often wish I had my crappy paying flight instructor job back. I'll never get to be a military aviator as I had always wanted and have accepted that. I will go back to the world of professionally flying when I retire from the Army. In the meantime I really don't know what to do besides hit up the local FBOs when I get the chance, but keeping my knowledge base sharp as well is also a concern (the flying club in Osan, AFB is 3 hours away). I'm a low time pilot (TT450) and really don't want to re-enter the flying world as still a low time pilot. What has anyone else done who have had to furlough their aviation career for an extended period of time? What do you/I do when finally get to fly professionally again at such low pilot time? Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks
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N801BH said:
Yeah......... That was my first thought too...:confused:
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What's to be confused about? LOTS of us are wanna be military aviators but didn't or don't have the vision for it.

For the OP, my suggestion (being a Navy guy who doesn't have gold wings) is to try and find tours where you can mix your personal aviation desires with work. My flying has had to take a back seat here and there during my sea tours, but I've managed to do my shore duty in places where I can fly a lot. I don't have my CFI ticket yet, but I have known guys who did CFI stuff on the side while on shore duty.

Obviously tough while you're in Korea. I was definitely craving flight time during my stint in Bahrain. My recommendation is to stay plugged in to forums like this and take the time while overseas to read/brush up on the book knowledge to keep your mind fresh. Then when you get back to CONUS, fly as much as money and family will allow.
 
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35 AoA said:
I don't know about other services, but USN and USMC are both only requiring 20/40 uncorrected, correctable to 20/20 these days. Astigmatism could be an issue, but with LASIK/LASEK being allowed now, it isn't as much of a show stopper as it used to be in the old days.
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When I got picked up it was 20/20 across the board. Now the Army allows no more than 20/50 distant but corrected to 20/20. Used to be you couldn't use contacts either but now they're authorized. Of course once they lifted the surgery restriction around 2002, we had a flood of applicants.
 
Ron would be a good person to ask about this.

My suggestion is when you get back to the States buy a VFR Cessna 150/152. Fly the heck out of it. When you PCS store it or sell it for about what you paid for it.

Compared to a few years ago, basic VFR airplanes are going for a song, much less than most officers pay for their cars.

When you retire you should be able to have close to that 1000 hours. You'll need to save up for the Part 121 fam/sim course that will be required for an ATP. Pass that and you should be good to go for a part 135 or part 121 regional job.

My last assignment before I retired from the Air Force was as an ALO at Fort Hood. My hat is off for anyone who can survive 20 years in the Army!! HOOAH!
 
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