Howzit Gonna Be?

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Landon Johnson

Filing Flight Plan
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Jan 26, 2009
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Landon Johnson
Greetings!

I just signed up here and already I am amazed at the amount of good knowledge on here - I love forums and discussion boards and make no decision without them...

That being said, I see no post that echoes my unique situation so I'm asking myself...

On June 2, 1982 I was returning home from a short trip across town (from Timmerman to Mitchell) in a rented 150 with a friend of mine. On final, my 6' companion had her knees all up blocking my flare - when I asked her to please move them, she stomped on the rudder pedal - touchdown, quick veer - off to the left, impacted a windsock pole with the left wing at around 40 MPH, did substantial damage to the plane, got in the car and went to Denny's for a bite.

Watching the aftermath on the 6:00 news that night I received a telephone call from the FAA asking me to send my license back voluntarily. I complied, knowing full well that this was a rule violation on my part - something about not familiarizing my passenger with the airplane and its controls. I had about 170 hours in 150s and Archers.

I have flown once since, with my friend Joel Stoller, who is a pilot and CFI out of MKE I believe (Midwest Express). I had no problems and made a decent landing in - oh, about 1996. There was no fear or apprehension; only a queer acknowledgement of how small and fragile that 150 seemed (I got my license when I was 17, I was 24 when this happened; I'm 50 now)

Now, I really want to think about getting my license back, even if I never use it again (yeah, like THAT'll ever happen!)

My questions are:

1. What will I need to do in order to earn my license back? A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then; I understand the mistake I made and believe me, that sort of omission will never happen again.

2. What can I expect in terms of how the sport (or practice) of SEL leisure flying has changed since 1982? I know there are lots of new technologies (do people even use those Jeppesen plotters anymore?) and new regs, as well as new types of licenses.

3. Should I look into, what is it called, an LSA license? I don't see myself doing much more than keeping current with an occasional weekend touch and go session, or a short trip across town (what got me into this situation in the first place!)

There is a flight training place right up the road but I want an objective opinion, not someone trying to sell me time and instruction I may not be required to receive, or want. I want to know what my options are before I set foot at York Airport. (Orvilles has great food, by the way!)

Thanks in advance for any help you might offer me.

Landon Johnson
 
First and foremost, you need to consult with a qualified aviation attorney (and just not an attorney who happens to like aviation, like me...).

A lot depends upon whether your certificate was suspended or revoked.

Before you blunder around FAA-world, spend a few bucks with learned counsel to evaluate options.

Best of luck in the process, and keep us posted. The intervening years have surely added a bit to your bag of wisdom, and the aviation bug never stops biting, does it?
 
Welcome to the swamp!

I think a bit more information will be needed.

1) Did you simply surrender your certificate or was it revoked?

2) Have you had any "motor vehicle actions" (e.g. DUI/DWI, license suspensions etc) that haven't been reported to the FAA within 60 days of the occurance?

3) Do you still have your training records (logbook)?


I believe that if your certificate was revoked (seems awfully harsh for the circumstance you described), you are allowed to retake the written and practical tests and upon passing would be issued a new certificate. AFaIK there's no specific training requirements for this beyond learning what's needed to pass the tests.

If you have reason to believe that you wouldn't qualify for a Class III medical certificate but don't have a condition that would make you unfit to be a pilot then your best bet would be to go for a SP certificate. Otherwise if I were you I'd retest for a PPL. Beware that if you apply for a class III medical and fail you won't be able to qualify as PIC in a Light Sport Aircraft either.

In any case, if you're serious the first thing I'd do is sign up with AOPA's legal services plan and consult with one of their participating attorneys. The world of FAA enforcement is a tangled web of totally illogical procedures and requirements that shouldn't be navigated solo.
 
Yes it was rather bizarre - there was no paperwork, I was asked to just put it in an envelope and send it in. I felt as though I deserved to give it back because I realized that it was totally my fault - I guess in my own mind I figured that I did not 'deserve' to fly.

According to my CFI friend, he thought at the time that it was suspended, not revoked. At the time of the accident he said that I would have to take a checkride and probably do some dual landings. He seems to think that by sending it in voluntarily I avoided the investigation that might have led to revocation. Is there a 'voluntary suspension' status?

Is there really a difference either way, after all these years? Even if it was 'just' suspended, wouldn't I still end up paying the same after an attorney and whatever flight/instruction time I would need to get current again?


Thanks again,

Landon Johnson
The whole event seems like it's out of the dark ages - a phone call, no paperwork, just send it in.
 
Did you simply surrender your certificate or was it revoked?

2) Have you had any "motor vehicle actions" (e.g. DUI/DWI, license suspensions etc) that haven't been reported to the FAA within 60 days of the occurance?

3) Do you still have your training records (logbook)?


I just surrendered it. I sent it in the next morning.

I have never had anything other than a speeding ticket - once in 1978. No DUI, no moving violations since. One accident in 1997 found 'niot my fault' (but we all know 'not my fault' means 'didn't do enough to prevent it'

Yes, I still have my logbook. I look at it every now and then because many of my teenage friends signed it (as my passenger).

It is a shame that I cannot just contact the FAA and get it straightened out. I have no issues with getting a medical but I would go LS if it's significantly cheaper based on my intended use.

Thank you very much!

Landon Johnson
 
Landon Johnson said:
Did you simply surrender your certificate or was it revoked?

2) Have you had any "motor vehicle actions" (e.g. DUI/DWI, license suspensions etc) that haven't been reported to the FAA within 60 days of the occurance?

3) Do you still have your training records (logbook)?


I just surrendered it. I sent it in the next morning.

I have never had anything other than a speeding ticket - once in 1978. No DUI, no moving violations since. One accident in 1997 found 'niot my fault' (but we all know 'not my fault' means 'didn't do enough to prevent it'

Yes, I still have my logbook. I look at it every now and then because many of my teenage friends signed it (as my passenger).

It is a shame that I cannot just contact the FAA and get it straightened out. I have no issues with getting a medical but I would go LS if it's significantly cheaper based on my intended use.

Thank you very much!

Landon Johnson
Click to expand...

If you never received any official sanction (it would have come by registered mail) you might still have a valid certificate. In that case your first step might be to just ask for a replacement certificate. If you go online and request one that doesn't have your SSN, you can even get it for free! (otherwise it's a whopping $2). I can't imagine that it could possibly hurt to try.
 
If you did not sign a letter of surrender, and the FAA did not go through the formality of suspension or revocation, I'm not sure your license was legally surrendered, and you may have cause to get it back now. As Spike said, get an aviation attorney to help you through that part of the process.

If your license was surrendered, you will have to go through the knowledge and practical tests again, but all your previous time still counts. Your old logbooks will suffice to prove your past training and flight experience. Of course, after 27 years, you may required nearly all the training you did back then to get back up to speed, but it may go faster than that. However, given that past experience, I suspect that getting a Sport Pilot ticket will be no easier than regaining your PP.
 
I went to the FAA website, and while I am in the system, the response to a request for a duplicate was that it is 'not available online'.

I am certainly not expecting to jump in and get a checkride, but I am blessed with a good memory for things like checklists and procedures (probably an attribute gleaned from the 'crash') so I want to get a decent instructor and ask him to let me run with it and see how far I get before I make a mistake. Sounds like fun to me.

I am now going to do a forum search for how to find a good instructor (I don't live anywhere near Joel)

Thanks again for your continuing help and support!

Landon Johnson
 
Landon,
Not much I can add to what's already been written above, but welcome to the board! I suspect that you're going to find that it's a non-issue, because it sounds as if, as Ron already indicated, you didn't do the formal surrender of certificate that's required, at least nowadays. However, it's much better to spend the $49 or whatever to join the AOPA legal plan and get an attorney versed in aviation law to check into it, than to blunder in and inadvertently mess things up.

Either way, I'm sure you realize that you're going to need some additional training to get you proficient again, whether it's required to get your certificate or not. We've had some other threads here about getting back to flying after long hiatuses that may be helpful.
 
I'd go with Spike's suggestion to seek out an aviation attorney. But in preparation for that, send a request to Oklahoma City for a copy of your records. Even if they are not required by the attorney, it would be a good idea to know what might have been filed in your name.

I followed the same process when I returned to flight a few years ago. Fortunately, things were more straight forward and did not require an attorney once the regional counsel spelled out what was required of me. I was able to slide by with nothing more than another check ride under 47709.

Here's the form for requesting your file:
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/media/COMPRQST.pdf

Best of luck returning to the sky. I hope it's a smooth process. You might say where you're located. You may receive some referrals on recommended CFIs in your area to prepare for this return.
 
If you do get your license back you need to do a Biennial Flight Review (BFR) with a qualified CFI (don't we just love our acronyms?). Of course, if you haven't flown for a couple decades that BFR could take awhile. Good luck, and welcome to the board.
 
You can also go to the faa.gov site and look up your certificate information online. I know that database still shows records of deceased pilots from the early 70's.
 
Welcome to the board, Landon, and hopefully, a quick, safe and uneventful return to the skies!

steingar said:
If you do get your license back you need to do a Biennial Flight Review (BFR) with a qualified CFI (don't we just love our acronyms?). Of course, if you haven't flown for a couple decades that BFR could take awhile. Good luck, and welcome to the board.
Click to expand...
except during my prep work for my "BFR" I was informed that the "B" is no longer part of the acronym, making one of our TLAs (Three Letter Acronym) a TLA (Two Letter Acronym) ... :D
 
RMCN172RG said:
You can also go to the faa.gov site and look up your certificate information online. I know that database still shows records of deceased pilots from the early 70's.
Click to expand...
On the site, you can only see certificate data and its validity; no other records regarding an airman. That information must be obtained in writing from OKC using the form I previously posted.
 
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