How'd you fix the paper work

Call the FSDO and ask what needs to be done.
 
EdFred said:
Call the FSDO and ask what needs to be done.
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Once SEA FSDO hears that, they will tell you to recover the records, any requests to register it again will be denied.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
Was it ever built & flown? It says the data plate it missing. Maybe it was never there.
How the heck does he know that it has been flown 700 hours?
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Wouldn't you have to take his word for that ?

You know he is doing the CYA thing for liability.
 
Tom-D said:
Wouldn't you have to take his word for that ?

You know he is doing the CYA thing for liability.
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If it flew 700 hours then there WAS an N-number for it. Somebody flew it. There is an N-Number is a pilot's log book. Somebody worked on it. There is a maintenance log book somewhere. There is a chance that an A&P worked on it. He has his personal records.

To claim it flew 700 hours but that there is NO record of it is BS one way or the other. Either it flew or it didn't. Either it was registered or it was not. Use the data plate on the engine to get some background info from Lycoming. Get the info from the prop. Who was it sold to?
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
If it flew 700 hours then there WAS an N-number for it. Somebody flew it. There is an N-Number is a pilot's log book. Somebody worked on it. There is a maintenance log book somewhere. There is a chance that an A&P worked on it. He has his personal records.

To claim it flew 700 hours but that there is NO record of it is BS one way or the other. Either it flew or it didn't. Either it was registered or it was not. Use the data plate on the engine to get some background info from Lycoming. Get the info from the prop. Who was it sold to?
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IOWs you'd chase the old paper work and not try to do new.
 
Offer 100 bucks for the entire plane and motor.....

Keep the motor experimental,, no need for paperwork

Plane is already experimental.... Get a new log book , make entries to show it being put back to airworthy....

All ya need is a A&P to sign the logs,,, and ol Tom is already one of those...;)
 
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Tom-D said:
IOWs you'd chase the old paper work and not try to do new.
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What new? How can you do a new E-AB registration if it's already registered?

Is the paperwork "lost" or was it de-registered?

If the first case, find the original N number, make a new data plate, and get copies of the original registration and operating limitations from the FAA.

In the second case, I suspect that you are parting out the engine / instruments after you cut up the airframe and haul it to a landfill.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
What new? How can you do a new E-AB registration if it's already registered?

Is the paperwork "lost" or was it de-registered?

If the first case, find the original N number, make a new data plate, and get copies of the original registration and operating limitations from the FAA.

In the second case, I suspect that you are parting out the engine / instruments after you cut up the airframe and haul it to a landfill.
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I would not cut it up...... Personally, I would throw a cheap paint job on it and sell it to a bar to hang from the ceiling.....

Just over the cockpit canopy I would add lettering that says.." Pilot- John Denver"
 
Not sure it's possible. Unless t has a traceable hull number, might just have to keep this one in a hangar and fly it bare.
 
N801BH said:
Offer 100 bucks for the entire plane and motor.....

Keep the motor experimental,, no need for paperwork

Plane is already experimental.... Get a new log book , make entries to show it being put back to airworthy....

All ya need is a A&P to sign the logs,,, and ol Tom is already one of those...;)
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That.

If I were a AP I'd probably be interested.

Do some detective work or just start from....scratch...with the paperwork.

If the hull and engine are sound seems like it could be a great deal.
 
James331 said:
That.

If I were a AP I'd probably be interested.

Do some detective work or just start from....scratch...with the paperwork.

If the hull and engine are sound seems like it could be a great deal.
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Except it doesn't have a data tag. How can you have a logbook or airworthiness certificate on a plane with no data tag?:dunno:
 
Henning said:
Except it doesn't have a data tag. How can you have a logbook or airworthiness certificate on a plane with no data tag?:dunno:
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Maybe someone mistyped and it was a project which was started but never finished, perhaps the build records will turn up.
 
James331 said:
Maybe someone mistyped and it was a project which was started but never finished, perhaps the build records will turn up.
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Exactly, which means you need to produce the paper trail/builder's log and positively identify it to this aircraft. Then they can issue you authority for a replacement data tag and an airworthiness certificate. But if the records are unavailable, how do you meet that requirement? There's too much missing to form identification. I would not think about buying it on the pretense the records will 'turn up'. If you have a project one you're building, this one is worth the parts you can take from it, unless you're willing to submit fraudulent data.
 
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
What new? How can you do a new E-AB registration if it's already registered?
How do you know if it is registered?
Is the paperwork "lost" or was it de-registered?

We don't know that? do we ?

If the first case, find the original N number, make a new data plate, and get copies of the original registration and operating limitations from the FAA.

How would you find that out if you have no paper trail?

In the second case, I suspect that you are parting out the engine / instruments after you cut up the airframe and haul it to a landfill.
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Well he didn't, did he.

Keep focused, read the ad, stay with what we know.

If you bought it, how would you gain certification with out lying your a$$ off to the FAA?

Remember you can't prove it was Amateur built. You have no records that show it was.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
I'm saying if it really has 700 hours on it then it is not "new" and cannot be registered as a new plane.
If there is no paperwork and was never registered, then you can do it as a new plane.
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How do you prove it was Amateur built with no records ? the DAR will want to see some proof prior to issuing the airworthiness certificate and repairman's certificate.

Granted,, with new paint, interior, and new (just issued) N number it will be easy to pass as new.
 
With out any records and the fact that the add says "no-N number" I doubt it is possible to register it or re-license it as E-AB. Could probably register it as Experimental Exibition and Racing, but that has a lot more limitations on it compared to E-AB.

Brian
 
Tom-D said:
How do you prove it was Amateur built with no records ? the DAR will want to see some proof prior to issuing the airworthiness certificate and repairman's certificate.

Granted,, with new paint, interior, and new (just issued) N number it will be easy to pass as new.
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It is a composite aircraft and NO way of verifying it is properly layed up, and is not a death trap.....

Any normal person would RUN from that thing... I am amazed you are even entertaining the thought to affix your name and reputation on that pile of parts...:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
N801BH said:
It is a composite aircraft and NO way of verifying it is properly layed up, and is not a death trap.....

Any normal person would RUN from that thing... I am amazed you are even entertaining the thought to affix your name and reputation on that pile of parts...:rolleyes::rolleyes:
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Where did you get the idea that I was buying it?
 
N801BH said:
:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:...
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Consider it a lesson for those would buy on why not to buy shi- like this.

But If I were thinking there was any money here, I do know how to sell and pass the liability.
 
The only way I see to pull this off and still be 'inside the lines' is to buy a cheap wreck and rebuild it using this airframe.
 
With no builders record,or a copy of the DAR sign off,I wouldn't touch any composite aircraft.
 
Henning said:
Except it doesn't have a data tag. How can you have a logbook or airworthiness certificate on a plane with no data tag?:dunno:
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simple, you buy it, get a BOS from the seller as partially built plans built aircraft, assign it what ever serial number you want. buy a set of long-ez plans, you make a data plate, call it what ever you want,and get it signed off. you are thinking as if it were a standard cat aircraft. people buy partially done aircraft every day and have no problem getting them a pink slip.

is it within the spirt of the law, im my option no, but it would be no problem to get a n-number and a pink slip for it.

bob
 
unsafervguy said:
simple, you buy it, get a BOS from the seller as partially built plans built aircraft, assign it what ever serial number you want. buy a set of long-ez plans, you make a data plate, call it what ever you want,and get it signed off. you are thinking as if it were a standard cat aircraft. people buy partially done aircraft every day and have no problem getting them a pink slip.

is it within the spirt of the law, im my option no, but it would be no problem to get a n-number and a pink slip for it.

bob
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Not sure that is going to get past a DAR on an original AW certificate. I can see it repairing an existing, but not making foundation for a new issue. You don't need a new tail number, you need a whole new original airworthy certificate.
 
Henning said:
Not sure that is going to get past a DAR on an original AW certificate.
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the fed that signed mine off did not even look at the builders log. he looked over my ad log, looked at the BOS from the kit supplier, checked the registration paper work submitted, took a quick look at the aircraft and issued a pink slip. No, you would never get it by a lot of them, but a lot would just issue the pink slip. getting a repairmans cert could be tougher, but you do not have to apply for that. look how many hired gun airplanes get through.

to be E-AB it must have been built for education and recreation, somebody built it and face it there isnt anybody building hired gun long-eze out there. the plans are not even for sale any more. the DAR's know that they have been through multiple owners many times.

is it right? no, but I am sure you could get it through.

bob
 
unsafervguy said:
the fed that signed mine off did not even look at the builders log. he looked over my ad log, looked at the BOS from the kit supplier, checked the registration paper work submitted, took a quick look at the aircraft and issued a pink slip. No, you would never get it by a lot of them, but a lot would just issue the pink slip. getting a repairmans cert could be tougher, but you do not have to apply for that. look how many hired gun airplanes get through.

to be E-AB it must have been built for education and recreation, somebody built it and face it there isnt anybody building hired gun long-eze out there. the plans are not even for sale any more. the DAR's know that they have been through multiple owners many times.

is it right? no, but I am sure you could get it through.

bob
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If the BOS was available, then it could be possibly be identified. What part of "no paperwork, no data tag" are you missing? There is nothing but an airframe there. We don't even know if the airframe is an unlicensed knock off from second hand plans.

It's going to take rebuilding a wreck to bring this airframe into play.
 
frfly172 said:
With no builders record,or a copy of the DAR sign off,I wouldn't touch any composite aircraft.
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I would, an O-scope with a 45° and 70° crystal ultrasonic rig will tell me what I need to know. I can rent a rig from Sperry for a week for not much.
 
Henning said:
If the BOS was available, then it could be possibly be identified. What part of "no paperwork, no data tag" are you missing? There is nothing but an airframe there. We don't even know if the airframe is an unlicensed knock off from second hand plans.

It's going to take rebuilding a wreck to bring this airframe into play.
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again, its EAB the data tag is what ever the builder feels like putting on it. call it a canard 1. what license? you are missing the point here, putting a new data tag on it with what ever name and serial number is how it becomes what ever it is. all you need in the way of a BOS is something from the guy on ebay saying bill of sales parts for plansbuilt aircraft. on a plans built there is no kit supplier so no BOS from them. it is nothing more than a collection of supplies put together and a data plate that the person trying to license it puts on it. there is very little paper the FAA wants to see to issue a pink slip. using a second hand set of planes is only a legal issue to the copyright holder, the FAA doesn't care. the FAA doesn't even care if there is a set of plans.

bob
 
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