How to Sail (Older boats)

wanttaja said:
Not a barque, it's square-rigged on the mizzen. Few ships ever set a sail on the crossjack, but you needed the mizzen course yard to set the mizzen topsail....the topsail sheets were reeved through the course.

Ron Wanttaja
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Ha ha, I'm from a landlocked state and know nothing about boats, but I have no idea what any of Ron's post means. :)
 
ColoPilot said:
Ha ha, I'm from a landlocked state and know nothing about boats, but I have no idea what any of Ron's post means. :)
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Grade school: Nativity Elementary, Fargo North Dakota
High School: Fargo South High School, Fargo North Dakota
College: North Dakota State University
Air Force Service: Buckley ANG Base, Denver ND.

One doesn't GET much more land-locked than me...~35 years on the wet coast, since the above, doesn't really count.....

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
Not a barque, it's square-rigged on the mizzen. Few ships ever set a sail on the crossjack, but you needed the mizzen course yard to set the mizzen topsail....the topsail sheets were reeved through the yard for the course.

Ron Wanttaja
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Is this what it is like for normal people when we say aileron and rudder and slip and crab?? No wonder people get confused!
 
overdrive148 said:
Is this what it is like for normal people when we say aileron and rudder and slip and crab?? No wonder people get confused!
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Yes. I'm new to sailing. Sometimes the captain will say something and I'll think, "WTF did he just ask me to do?". At least now I know what the halyard is, and the topping lift, and the pulpit, and the sheets, and the traveler, etc.
 
Everskyward said:
Squeezed between what? The lift on the sails and the water on the keel?
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Imagine you're pushing a long, thin wedge under a block of wood. The wedge travels horizontally faster than the block of wood does vertically. Now let's say you do the reverse, and push the block of wood (the wind) on to the wedge (angle between the sail and the keel.) If that makes sense.
 
overdrive148 said:
Is this what it is like for normal people when we say aileron and rudder and slip and crab?? No wonder people get confused!
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LOL, it is, though they probably understand rudder, even if they don't fully understand how we use it. I tried to keep it simple in this thread until I understood your level of knowledge.
 
Here's the way one takes in sail.... Imagine doing that in a storm, in freezing cold, rounding Cape Horn. He's furling a topsail on a schooner. They didn't have safety harnesses as he does, back in the day.


JAK_5082
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Here's the way one takes in sail.... Imagine doing that in a storm, in freezing cold, rounding Cape Horn. He's furling a topsail on a schooner. They didn't have safety harnesses as he does, back in the day

JAK_5082
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mug_on_wood_grande.jpg
 
Sac Arrow said:
Imagine you're pushing a long, thin wedge under a block of wood. The wedge travels horizontally faster than the block of wood does vertically. Now let's say you do the reverse, and push the block of wood (the wind) on to the wedge (angle between the sail and the keel.) If that makes sense.
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Nope. Maybe a diagram would help.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Here's the way one takes in sail.... Imagine doing that in a storm, in freezing cold, rounding Cape Horn. He's furling a topsail on a schooner. They didn't have safety harnesses as he does, back in the day.


JAK_5082
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You don't want to know. I worked leaning masts before the climbing safety rules kicked in. Ya stayed alive by having a good grip...no matter what.
 
This diagram is the one that makes the most sense to me, but I don't get the concept of squeezing.

Screen Shot 2018-01-29 at 17.01.09.png
 
Imagine a "boat" that has a groove on the bottom of it that fits in a rail (this is modeling a keel). Now the wind blows the sail and the sail transfers motion to the boat. Since it is on a rail, it can move forward along the rail. What is curious and hard to understand is once the boat starts moving, it "makes it's own wind!". The movement of the boat causes even more wind to blow on the sail! One can notice what is happening when one actually sails a boat. When you start moving, the sails fill even more and the boat accelerates! Now of course, you have to have the sail adjusted correctly and a sailboat can only sail so close to the wind etc. But, thats an explanation of how the thing works that might help people understand it.

If a boat didnt have a keel, and had a spherical bottom like a snow saucer, it would just get blown in the direction of the wind. And of course the sails are adjustable in the way they point so there is that. Sailing magic!

If a plane behaved similarly to a boat, it would have a keel shaped 'plow' that dug a groove in the ground as it flew along, acting like a keel of a boat. Of course it doesnt have that so it behaves like the snow saucer, just gets blown in the direction of the wind.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Imagine a "boat" that has a groove on the bottom of it that fits in a rail (this is modeling a keel). Now the wind blows the sail and the sail transfers motion to the boat. Since it is on a rail, it can move forward along the rail. What is curious and hard to understand is once the boat starts moving, it "makes it's own wind!". The movement of the boat causes even more wind to blow on the sail! One can notice what is happening when one actually sails a boat. When you start moving, the sails fill even more and the boat accelerates! Now of course, you have to have the sail adjusted correctly and a sailboat can only sail so close to the wind etc. But, thats an explanation of how the thing works that might help people understand it.
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I can understand that part. The apparent wind (which is like the relative wind in aviation) is the sum of the actual wind plus the wind caused by the boat's motion. I was having problems with the squeezing peas in a pod description.
 
Everskyward said:
I can understand that part. The apparent wind (which is like the relative wind in aviation) is the sum of the actual wind plus the wind caused by the boat's motion. I was having problems with the squeezing peas in a pod description.
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I'm new to sailing, just bought a small 1-2 man sailboat this summer. I heard it is like squeezing a watermelon seed between two fingers, and it shoots out between them. I think the squeeze part comes from...1 the wind is one finger, the body of water on the lee side is the other finger (because the keel doesn't let it push the boat sideways) resulting in th boat shooting between.

Have never had actual instruction, but read some beginners books on sailing, and my son and I had a ball the first time out...we looked at each other with big grins and said, "hey....were actually SAILING!!"
He got better at it than me after a few times...and is hooked. I'm still working on PPL so my time is going to that but sailing is fun! One thing, once you get going at a good clip of course the wind vector changes (now your forward sped is a factor when you build up speed) can be hard to be sure where the wind is actually coming from.
 
LongRoadBob said:
I think the squeeze part comes from...1 the wind is one finger, the body of water on the lee side is the other finger (because the keel doesn't let it push the boat sideways) resulting in th boat shooting between.
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I think I can visualize this now.

LongRoadBob said:
Have never had actual instruction, but read some beginners books on sailing, and my son and I had a ball the first time out...we looked at each other with big grins and said, "hey....were actually SAILING!!"
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I went sailing with a Meetup group on a 30' Catalina just to try it out. Also, I was on the verge of signing up for a sailing expedition/vacation and wanted to make sure I would like it (it's coming up soon now). The first time I looked in confusion at all the ropes (oops, I mean lines) going through pulleys every which way. The vocabulary was pretty incomprehensible. I made the mistake of telling them I was a pilot, so they assumed the knowledge would transfer easily. "Is it like flying?" Um, no. It seems like there are way more controls and variables. But I'm sure its all in what you're used to. Now I have been sailing with them 6 or 7 times and pretty much understand the rigging and how to be a newbie crew. I'm going to take a course this spring after I get back from that expedition/vacation.
 
Everskyward said:
I think I can visualize this now.

I went sailing with a Meetup group on a 30' Catalina just to try it out. Also, I was on the verge of signing up for a sailing expedition/vacation and wanted to make sure I would like it (it's coming up soon now). The first time I looked in confusion at all the ropes (oops, I mean lines) going through pulleys every which way. The vocabulary was pretty incomprehensible. I made the mistake of telling them I was a pilot, so they assumed the knowledge would transfer easily. "Is it like flying?" Um, no. It seems like there are way more controls and variables. But I'm sure its all in what you're used to. Now I have been sailing with them 6 or 7 times and pretty much understand the rigging and how to be a newbie crew. I'm going to take a course this spring after I get back from that expedition/vacation.
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Good!

My first time sailing was about fifteen or more years ago. I was in Denmark, for business and over the weekend. My frien and colleague asked if I would like to go sailing with his brother who was an avid sailor. I said "hell yes, thanks!" What I didn't know was it was a regatta, or as I knew it, a sailboat race, his boat had a crew, I protested that I was totally ignorant of sailing, but they said it was ok, I was to mainly be ballast. I figured, possibly cocky, that I was at least smart enough to throw my weight around when and where ordered.
We actuall won, for our category (his wasn't a racing sailboat, so there were more winners in categories than just fastest over the line). His brother the sailor who owned the boat was possibly being divorced because (sound familiar to any pilots out there?) all he did, thought about, or dreamed was sailing.

I felt like as I moved from one side to the other, I got an understanding watching them rig each phase. One thing I had never dreamed of was the difference, tacking into the wind was COLD, breezy, folks had on windbreakers etc. and round the buoy and off with jackets and shirts, hot as hell and totally wind still as we sailed with the wind (but as noted, not with direct tailwind) I a fast clip.

So I always wanted to try it. Finally found a used boat, it has a mainsail and a (I think it has several names but...) spinnaker? Or foresail. Or jib. 14'.

First time out we didn't use the forsail just the main. We could have also just used the jib.

It was incredibly fun. Still, I'm focused on flying now. But the basics of sailing are much easier. To me it seems like it is not difficult to be able to sail, the art of it I think comes in using the wind to best advantage. THAT can take a very long time.
 
ChemGuy said:
Correct.
But how many ropes on dat der saleboat?
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Depends. How many do you have stored below for repairs or hanging in the shower with the soap?? Those are ropes. Everything else is rigging, sheets, lines or halyards, they aren't ropes anymore
 
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