How to handle bad reference on resume

A

anonymous

Guest
i work in the helicopter business, as a noob Ive been limited to seasonal only jobs as I don't have my flight instructor. ive worked at the same place for a total three years with a year break in between where i found a seasonal job local to where i live.

so every spring starts with the annual sending out of resumes. every spring i got lots of response to my resume.

now, i got more hours than most jobs require and am ready to move on to bigger better jobs.

not a single call on my resume.

at the end of last season i got selected for an interview for a year round job which would require me to leave before the season was over and went to my former boss, explained the situation and got his ok to leave early.

i think the former employer is mad i left early (pet peeve of his) and is "black balling" me.

i would think the fact that i spent three season with the same employer should speak to my dependability. i've called in favors and have letters of recommendations and didn't even get a call for an interview this season. if i got the chance to explain via an interview i think everyone would understand but i cannot even get an interview.

its possible its just luck of the draw i'm not getting called but in my gut i think i'm getting "black balled" and i just don't know what to do about it.

normally i'm a self reliant person and wouldn't dream of making a thread like this but ive truly had the worst year ever the past year of my life. while on deployment i was served with divorce papers and while my house stood empty was burglarized and everything I owned was stolen. my insurance was best i could afford and not worth a darn. im starting to get majorly down over all this where i normally am not that kind of person. i normally believe in making my own luck. i moved forward from all this trying to believe that it was for the best.

i don't know, i don't want handouts, just for a rare moment in my life feeling overwhelmed and not sure what to do.

thanks for listening.
 
It could be your previous employer but I'd say 3 seasons is plenty in establishing employment. Anything less than a year would probably draw a red flag. Recently we had a guy stay for a week and move on. Moving around like that will quickly burn bridges. A lot of the employers will see right through it. Basically looking to get an aircraft qual and move on to more pay.

Do you have contacts? Have you done Heli-Expo? A lot depends on who you've met along the way and hopefully you've made a good impression upon them.

Finally, you say you've got the hours but our company gets multiple applications for just one air ambulance spot. Inst Com with 2000 total RW, 1000 turbine, 1000 PIC and 100 NG are bare mins. They'd really like much more than that for insurance purposes, especially the 100 hrs NVG. If I were doing the hiring, I wouldn't take anyone with less than 500 hrs night / NVG combo.

Good luck and keep at it. Even with all the Vietnam guys being pretty much retired and replaced, I think the helo segment will continue to be healthy.
 
1700 total time, 1400 PIC helicopter - meet 135 mins for night and xc.

I would like to add my CFI and/or ATP but just don't have the money to.

Learned at a mom and pop, so only have friends/contacts that I made at seasonal tour job. as stated - i got letters of recommendation, friends at places i want to work have personally recommended me to the CP - so I thought I haven't made friends with everyone I've ever worked with I think I've done ok.

missed last spring's Heli Expo due to deployment, last fall and this spring i missed heli expo due to schedule conflicts. i know i should have made it but i didn't/couldn't.

thanks again, just getting very frustrated here, i appreciate you taking the time to try and help.
 
Keep at it, go to Heli Expo (don't miss the next one), and don't give up. If you can, get your CFI and get some more connections that way. Should be easy transition with your experience.
 
Yeah I'd look at getting the CFI. I don't have it but was a military IP so I suppose they saw it as equal.

Wouldn't worry about the ATP for awhile. Once you start looking at positions that require it, then look at getting the ATP. Employers really don't care about an ATP for SE stuff these days. A nice to have but total time applied to what they're hiring you for is more important.
 
Have a buddy call up your reference and record it, to see what the score is.
 
I would think that your ex-employer would not risk his reputation by spreading untruths. That can work against him.

I went through a slump years ago. I was applying for better flying jobs and no phone calls. While I exceeded the minimum requirements listed, I now realize that there were applicants that had far more hours than the minimums listed on the job add. Eventually I got a call and have never looked back.

After one summer job I was not getting any calls on my resume. Turned out one of the owners of that summer employment was telling everyone that I had a back injury and could not lift anything. All I can say is that cost him, I mean it really cost him. I do not have any idea why he was spreading that rumor, but he really hurt the company.

What pilot did not leave one job for another early in the career? Constant job jumping over the years would be a red flag, not leaving a seasonal job early after three seasons for a full time job.
 
I would think that your ex-employer would not risk his reputation by spreading untruths. That can work against him.

I went through a slump years ago. I was applying for better flying jobs and no phone calls. While I exceeded the minimum requirements listed, I now realize that there were applicants that had far more hours than the minimums listed on the job add. Eventually I got a call and have never looked back.

After one summer job I was not getting any calls on my resume. Turned out one of the owners of that summer employment was telling everyone that I had a back injury and could not lift anything. All I can say is that cost him, I mean it really cost him. I do not have any idea why he was spreading that rumor, but he really hurt the company.

What pilot did not leave one job for another early in the career? Constant job jumping over the years would be a red flag, not leaving a seasonal job early after three seasons for a full time job.

Yea it definitely could just be luck of the draw, just feeling a little down about it all.

I can think of no reason why this guy would not give me a good recommendation but I just got a feeling he isn't because I left early. Yes, what career minded pilot wouldn't leave a seasonal job eventually ?

I hope its just a slump, I know the market is a little tight right now, lots of Gulf of Mexico pilots getting laid off.

I guess I get extra frustrated because I know people that have parker penned the crap out of their logbooks and have moved on.... its hard not to get ****ed when you are 100% legit and can't even get an interview.
 
A lot of aviation hiring is right place at the right time. That's certainly the way my career has gone.

As others have mentioned, keep working at it. Network with friends that you've worked with before. I would hazard to say that most aviation jobs are not advertised. People find out about these jobs by word of mouth (from their friends). The hiring people at these places find out about you by word of mouth (meaning one of your friends walked your resume in).

Don't let the one a-hole bother you. As you build up your rep, others will notice.
 
I guess I get extra frustrated because I know people that have parker penned the crap out of their logbooks and have moved on.... its hard not to get ****ed when you are 100% legit and can't even get an interview.

I've found that folks can figure out the pencil whippers fairly quick.
 
You should not use a person as a reference unless you've asked him and you are certain he will give you a good one.

I had an employee who quit the morning I was going in to fire him. A few months later I got a call from a HR person at another company.

HR: Mr. Lee gave you as a reference.
ME: He did, did he?
HR: You were unaware of this?
ME: Correct.
HR: Would you like to give him a reference?
ME: It would be better for him if I didn't.
HR: I understand.
 
You should not use a person as a reference unless you've asked him and you are certain he will give you a good one.

I had an employee who quit the morning I was going in to fire him. A few months later I got a call from a HR person at another company.

HR: Mr. Lee gave you as a reference.
ME: He did, did he?
HR: You were unaware of this?
ME: Correct.
HR: Would you like to give him a reference?
ME: It would be better for him if I didn't.
HR: I understand.

Ha, yea, I don't necessarily have him as a reference other than listed on my job history.

I have had my resume hand walked in, which is the reason why I think what I was thinking.

As for asking, guess I could. I know he was upset I left early but at the same time gave me his blessing because he couldn't provide full time employment... he's kind of an odd guy (helicopter biz... goes without saying i reckon... ) so I could see him not saying something bad per se but not necessarily giving an enthusiastic review either. "would you rehire" is the legal question I believe but it can be answered "heck yea!" "ummm... yea I guess..." etc etc

thanks all, it really is appreciated, was feeling pretty bummed out this morning just in life in general. a real full time job would go a long way to getting things better, lol.

instead of laying around moping, i rewrote my resume, resent it, recontacted contacts, etc, etc
 
I've found that folks can figure out the pencil whippers fairly quick.

Yep, I think it's becoming more and more of a problem though. Read a few articles on it and had friends tell stories of pilots who flat out lied about their time to get a job. Pilots not wanting to pay their dues and just want to bypass the lower stuff. They look at min hiring hours as just an arbitrary number.

I'm not saying someone who lies and gives themselves an extra 500 hrs is going to get people killed but if they lied about that, who knows what else?

Like you said, I think most interviewers know what they're dealing with. Even if they slip through the cracks, we almost always have at least one bust their 135 rides. If they slip through that, we have plenty who either get fired for doing stupid stuff or get fired for scaring the crap out of their crew. So, in a nutshell, generally it doesn't pay to lie.

To the OP, keep your integrity, stay after it and I'm sure you'll find employment in an area you want.
 
I get a few calls about good and bad former employees.

The good ones, I am very friendly when speaking of them.

The bad ones, I just give the date they started and the date they left. No other comments. Good HR people understand.

Good HR people also know how to read a resume.

Bad bosses also mouth off. Get it on tape and you can hold them responsible for not getting a good job. I hate saying that as a loud mouth business owner, but I know the rules.
 
Yep, I think it's becoming more and more of a problem though. Read a few articles on it and had friends tell stories of pilots who flat out lied about their time to get a job. Pilots not wanting to pay their dues and just want to bypass the lower stuff. They look at min hiring hours as just an arbitrary number.

I ran into a fellow a bunch of years ago that claimed to be an F-14 pilot. Having worked on a carrier I found some of his statements/stories to be a bit off. I did some checking with some F-14 pilots that I knew. None of them ever heard of him. He also claimed to be a CFI at Riddle previously.

He was also real protective of his logbooks; wouldn't let anyone look at them. I did get a good look at them once. It was enlightening. I'm not sure why an F-14 pilot would need to go through primary training. And then go to Riddle. BTW... He got his private, comm and instrument there as well as multi, but didn't complete the CFI course.

The real eye opening though was at about 500 or so hours. He has a entry at the bottom of the page that says, "Hours added from previous logbook that was lost." I saw that previous logbook as well. That one took him up to 400 hours or so. On the page with the quoted statement he added the number "1" to the total time, ASEL, Cross country, and PIC columns, essentially giving himself and extra 1000 hours across the board. On the MEL line, he changed the first "1" to a "7," giving himself an extra 600 hours. In the night column, he added a "5" making his night time 500 more than previously recorded.

He's not flying professionally anymore. Not sure if he's flying at all.

Another story...

A fellow in Alaska was busy doing paperwork while taxiing and ran into the back of another aircraft. He had been with the company for a few weeks. During the subsequent FAA investigation, it was revealed that when he submitted his 8710 for his CFI ticket 3 months earlier, he had a bit less than 500 hours. But when got hired by my company, he all of a sudden had over 1000 hours.

Not sure what he's up to now, but he didn't work for us anymore.

I've got a few more stories about pencil whippers, but they all involve a lack of ability and questionable experience.
 
Typically, a HP department will only validate the dates of employment, not your status while there nor the reason for leaving. Saying anything more "officially" leaves them open to a lawsuit. If you find your former employer is bad mouthing you to potential employers, you could have a case. On the other hand though, it is entirely possible that there are 1,000 applications for every open position. Though in a different field, a friend of mine was out of work for over a year. He started to feel the same way.
Your best bet is to have a professional resume and a decent cover letter which should introduce yourself and give them a good reason for hiring you over the next guy. Keep the resume tight, short, and to the point. Samples done through word processing programs are a good start but do not replace a professional.
 
From what you say, I doubt that your previous employer is your problem. As suggested, though, there are ways you can check this out. Having a friend call for a reference is a good one. Possibly this will help:

When I get buried in resumes for a job, more than I can reasonably study, I make a first pass with the goal of weeding out as many as possible. Life is not fair and I am not necessarily fair as I do this. Grounds for weeding out include misspellings in the cover letter, cover letter that was used for some other company and the company name not changed, misspellings in the resume, holes in the resume, missing critical items like education, multipage resume too long to read, ... My guess is that you are getting weeded out before anyone gets to checking references. 80% or more of the resumes I get (when I get too many) meet this fate.

Ones that don't get weeded out include ones where it is clear that the applicant has visited our web site to learn about the company, concise, neat and customized cover letter and resume. An orientation to the benefits the applicant can bring is a plus. Example: "I see that Ferndock Enterprises is using Great Plains accounting software. My background includes using and teaching all aspects of Great Plains to multiple employees." "I have worked at companies with manufacturing operations similar to yours and have found that careful management of scrap steel and stainless can produce significant financial benefit. I hope to be able help Ferndock in this area as well." A hand-delivered resume with some chitchat with the receptionist or other employees can be a plus and can get your resume to the decision-maker before the mail brings another twenty. In a small operation you might even meet the decision maker; don't press for an interview, though, as that is rude. Just try to make a good first impression and thank him/her in advance for considering you.

These days, the one-size-fits-all resume and cover letter are obsolete.
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top