How to get rid of windscreen swirls

ARFlyer

ARFlyer

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Does anyone know how to get fix windscreen swirls? Our Arrow aircraft are impossible to see out of when flying directly into the sun. You have a mixture of swirls and straight scratches that make the windscreen go opaque. I have brought this to our chief and he just takes the complaint to file 13. I have a feeling for this to get fixed I'm going to have to do it myself over one weekend afternoon. Another CFI said its not scratches but stretch marks acquired during the window making process.

So any ideas ? Is there anyway to fix this without replacing the window? We use window cleaner and those soft paper towels to clean the windscreen.
 
ARFlyer said:
Does anyone know how to get fix windscreen swirls? Our Arrow aircraft are impossible to see out of when flying directly into the sun. You have a mixture of swirls and straight scratches that make the windscreen go opaque. I have brought this to our chief and he just takes the complaint to file 13. I have a feeling for this to get fixed I'm going to have to do it myself over one weekend afternoon. Another CFI said its not scratches but stretch marks acquired during the window making process.

So any ideas ? Is there anyway to fix this without replacing the window? We use window cleaner and those soft paper towels to clean the windscreen.
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I have always been told to never put paper on plexiglass, no matter how "soft" it is. There are products on the market for this problem, but I have no first hand experience with them,
 
You take a gamble with most products out there that are to help repair plexiglass swirls and scratches, and it can be easy to make it worse. I've never tried it myself, even through I want to on my Cherokee. I think I'll try once I replaced the windscreen first.

It is easy to scratch the windscreen while cleaning. While paper towels are the most common item to use, there are specialty Window Wipes which are designed to trap the foreign material and not just push it around. I use the Dupont Sontara Window Wipes, and they work well, but in a pinch, I'll use some Bounty towels. I never use a shop rag or terry cloth towel.
 
Micro mesh unless you know how to use a buffer, but if you did you wouldn't be asking, so stick with a Micro mesh kit.
 
Maybe you can find an A/P or aircraft salvage place that will give you part of an old windscreen to play with using the products suggested here. If so, report back on your findings. I'm sure there are more people who would benefit from your research.
 
Talk to one of the windshield specialist guys first.

When we could no longer see through the A-36 windshield, we consulted with several of them and some other trusted sources. The unanimous advice was that at some age (~20-some years) they all become damn-near opaque and no amount of rubbing and smearing stuff on them will yield any significant improvements.

I replaced the W/S on my 1960 Cessna 180 last year using similar logic. The difference is so dramatic that still look through it and wonder if it's really there.
 
wabower said:
Talk to one of the windshield specialist guys first.

When we could no longer see through the A-36 windshield, we consulted with several of them and some other trusted sources. The unanimous advice was that at some age (~20-some years) they all become damn-near opaque and no amount of rubbing and smearing stuff on them will yield any significant improvements.

I replaced the W/S on my 1960 Cessna 180 last year using similar logic. The difference is so dramatic that still look through it and wonder if it's really there.
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Opaque is different from scratched, it forms from the inside out and is mostly the result of hydrocarbon solvents leaching out of your plastic and vinyl interior parts. Sometimes you can make it some better with a micro mesh kit used on the inside, but typically not worth the effort.
 
All of the above said - if it isn't your airplane I wouldn't be taking any product to it without the owner's permission. If the owner of the aircraft won't fix it your choices are to either live with it or don't fly it.
 
The problem as reported by the pilots is usually some combination of "cracking, crazing and swirls" because that's what they see. The milkiness that results from old age is less detectable because of the presence of the other problems, but is often the root cause of reduced see-through. Having now seen the with knowledge gained from the Bo manifested on numerous other airplanes, I still think the best answers will come from from somebody who knows something about them.

Henning said:
Opaque is different from scratched, it forms from the inside out and is mostly the result of hydrocarbon solvents leaching out of your plastic and vinyl interior parts. Sometimes you can make it some better with a micro mesh kit used on the inside, but typically not worth the effort.
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The problem as reported by the pilots is usually some combination of "cracking, crazing and swirls" because that's what they see. The milkiness that results from old age is less detectable because of the presence of the other problems, but is often the root cause of reduced see-through. Having now seen similar problems on numerous other planes, I still think the best answers will come from from somebody who knows something about them.
 
As long as you rent, you will have this problem.

To get the swirls and scratching out of the windshield could take hours or longer, it only takes ONE fool to scratch it up again.
 
Tip, clean your windshield using vertical strokes. What scratches you will get will produce the least glare and disruption to vision, especially into a low sun.
 
NEVER USE PAPER TOWELS!!!



Use a mild detergent then a good carnuba wax, it wil fill the swirl marks in.
 
I work with a fair amount of plexi on boats, and planes. also do auto headlights and several other acrylic surfaces. Age does affect plexi, but aviation grade products are about the best there are in terms of the chemical consistency and quality. Most of them can be fixed, or at least made better. Of course, there is a time when they finally get too degraded to help.

I've used a few products, but the stuff from Novus is pretty good. Start with the cleaner, and then go to #2 fine scratch remover. Use lots of elbow grease, don't use a buffing wheel unless you really know what you're doing. Once you're done with #2, go back and clean it again. If there are still some scratches, go to the #3, and then go back and do it with the #2 again. Never use a paper product of any kind.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOVUS-Plast...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item5d34fb3042
 
Another vote for Novus. I've used it a number of times on car headlights and motorcycle windshields. With a little work it can do wonders. Practice on an old junk windshield, or do a side corner first. And I agree -- no buffer, just be prepared to wear out your arms. It's way too easy to start melting plastic with a buffer.
 
Geico266 said:
Lemon Pledge.

;)
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I have used lemon pledge, not that good. I've been using car wax for more then 20 years and I have no swirls, cracking or yellowing. Yes, it takes more work.

If the window is really dusty, I start by pouring water on the windshield and then drying with a rag. Then apply the wax and let it dry-up. Wipe off with a clean dry rag (no paper towels).
 
Lemon pledge is excellent. You will never get hazing or scratching with LP. But it won't take out any scratches you already have.

This stuff is great for removing minor scratching:
meguiars_cleaner_wax.jpg


Use microfiber, never paper.
 
I have a magical method of removing all scratches, crazing and aging, no magical chemicals, or rubbing involved.
 
New windscreen installed on my plane: ~$1300
Couple bottles of Novus and a few hours: ~:20

I guess the next logical step is to jack up the serial number, and put a whole new plane underneath. That sure a heck will fix the scratches.
 
docmirror said:
New windscreen installed on my plane: ~$1300
Couple bottles of Novus and a few hours: ~:20

I guess the next logical step is to jack up the serial number, and put a whole new plane underneath. That sure a heck will fix the scratches.
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It should.
 
Replacing the widows is a great solution, but I would not do one at a time- it only makes the rest of them look bad and frankly is a cheap solution if they are all of the same vintage. If you do replace them, there are options sometimes for going thicker, which improves sound reduction and resistance to impacts. Novus products were recommended to me by the company who did my windows. They came in, and two guys worked full time for around three days to change all of the windows. Looks great now.
 
It also appears from the OP that this is not an owner plane. The OP would not be able or allowed to replace the windows on the plane he flies.
 
docmirror said:
It also appears from the OP that this is not an owner plane. The OP would not be able or allowed to replace the windows on the plane he flies.
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Heh. I don't know any owner who wouldn't happily accept his check. ;)
 
Tom-D said:
What would you think If I were to bring your aircraft back with new parts on it?
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Depends on the quality of your work, but I'd probably not look a gift horse in the mouth. Leaky windows suck though. ;)

Got an IFR Certified Garmin you wanna put on board? ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Depends on the quality of your work, but I'd probably not look a gift horse in the mouth. Leaky windows suck though. ;)

Got an IFR Certified Garmin you wanna put on board? ;)
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When You pay me to fly your aircraft, Ill put the Garmin in free.
:)
 
denverpilot said:
Heheh, you left that wide open. You'll get paid a generous $10 an hour for 1 hour. ;)
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Be that as it may, many owners do not like any one messing with their aircraft, they want total control of who works on it.
 
NuFinish

It (over numerous years and applications) actually removed 80% of the crazing from my door windows. Crazing due to not being adequately protected from paint stripper.

Then, just last spring, I finally replaced the windows.

NuFinish.
 
Assuming it's an airplane to which you can do maintenance, there have been plenty of methods discussed above.

Method 2 - up the ante. Increase the severity of your reports. Rather than talking about swirls and scratches, say what you just said here - that it becomes opaque in the sun and it is impossible to see any approaching aircraft from that direction. Now you're documenting a safety problem that the chief can either fix or let go.

Can he afford to ignore it and take the risk that someone has an accident? Knowing that afterward, the NTSB will come around asking the other pilots about problems with the airplane?
 
Henning said:
Tip, clean your windshield using vertical strokes. What scratches you will get will produce the least glare and disruption to vision, especially into a low sun.
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+1
Never use a circular motion to clean windshield.
Allways up and down, never side to side.
 
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