How to approach instrument rating training?

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm hoping to get an "Introduction to IR" soon so that I know what to be sure I'm good at (holding altitude, straight and level, going on long enough trips talking to ATC) At 40 hours or when I get laid off is when I'm starting mine. My husband started when he only had 30 hours and every training they did an XC to build hours (but that is the expensive way to do it. I'm going to start reading Rod Machado's book of Instrument flying as well so I know what the CFI is talking about before I get in the plane.
 
What I did was my written over a weekend course at American Flyers and then spent the next week flying 40 hours under the hood with Satan for a CFII and my checkride the next weekend. It was pretty damned brutal but I'll tell ya, it ingrained the stuff in me well. After not flying instruments for 10 years I got in a 310 with a buddy and after 10 minutes was comfortable and shot an approach like on rails. Bob commented, "you haven't flown instruments in 10 years but you just flew that to ATP standards". The IFR flight I had made previous to that had me landing 'needle, ball, and airspeed' loaded with ice, so I guess the method isn't that bad.
 
smltk1 said:
I've been lurking through these forums and the general consensus seemed to be that I shouldn't fly XCs under the hood w/safety pilot until I get a few lessons with a CFII so I don't waste money unlearning bad habits.
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That is good thinking.

Should I just spend my money on getting to about 40 to 45 hours of XC time before I really start training
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That's a good idea.

or should I go up a few times with a CFII to develop some basic instrument flying skills before attempting the hood time?
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Trying to fly hooded XC's after only a couple of instrument training flights would be premature.

Or should I not do anything at all?
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No. Building XC PIC time now would be your best course. You might also start looking for a training buddy with whom you can swap hooded practice time once you start the training.
 
I took an instrument ground school at the local community college which was free for me but it relatively cheap if you have to pay. Taught by a CFII and was about half lecture and half PCATD. Gets you the endorsement for the knowledge test. If there's a CC near you, see if they have an aviation program.

Cheers
 
I'm taking the ground school through a community college. I'm just worried about doing it part 61. I don't have a steady enough schedule to really do an instrument rating part 141, and I like the part 61 method, anyway.

I am in the same boat as the OP. I was thinking of just doing some XCs with the instructor under the hood to build the necessary XC time. I don't know enough people in the aviation world to get up with a safety pilot, although I have yet to head to ground school. However, this seems to be the only cost-effective method I can find so far.
 
HerrGruyere said:
I was thinking of just doing some XCs with the instructor under the hood to build the necessary XC time.
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There is no reason you can't build XC PIC time during instrument training -- all you have to do is include a landing more than 50nm from home on each training flight. You can then practice what you learned on that flight on another flight with a safety pilot and include one landing more than 50nm away to get more XC PIC time. You'll build XC PIC and total instrument time quickly that way, and by interleaving the training and practice flights, but learning things correctly the first time (Law of Primacy) and then practicing those correct techniques and procedures (Law of Exercise) between lessons.

Having a safety pilot doing the same training can make it even more effective. You share training flights (one flying, one observing from the back seat, then swapping seats for the second hour) and swap hood time during the practice flights. Throw in that over-50nm landing on each flight (training and practice, doing the seat swaps at that other airport), and you'll be able to put your flying dollars to their most efficient use for obtaining your IR.
 
I think that's what I'm gonna do. I think my only clarification: my XC PIC time will not count if it's a flight with an instructor, right?
 
HerrGruyere said:
I think that's what I'm gonna do. I think my only clarification: my XC PIC time will not count if it's a flight with an instructor, right?
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It WILL count, as long as you're the sole manipulator and rated in the airplane. The only time it wouldn't count for is SOLO X/C time, and I don't believe that's a requirement for the IR.

So if you make your instrument training flights X/C flights, you'll build the time while you learn. But you should be sure your instructor/school is happy to do that. If they have a programmed "course" with sim time and such you may not be able to do it "your" way.
 
I'm okay with a little sim time. IIRC, you can use some sim time in part 61. I think... My school is primarily 141 oriented, but I've mentioned to my current instructor and my proposed instrument instructor and they both said that would probably be okay.

I'll probably do some by myself or with friends XC flights just because I wanna do some flying to enjoy the fun of flying. It'll help build and I'll have fun not training for once.

PS Sorry I hijacked the thread, OP.
 
I have one more suggestion for all folks working on the IR....

Once you've completed the rating, budget three lessons with a CFI to go out and do basic visual manuevers - steep turns, turns around a point, stalls, slow flight. Do this with the instrument panel covered, so you HAVE to look out the windscreen.

This will help you break the habit of flying on the instruments in VMC (and not looking for traffic the way you should) and help train you to use "God's horizon" when it's available, and switch to "Sperry's horizon" (or King's or Garmin's) when and only when you need it.

I went right from the instrument to the commercial and had a tough time keeping my head up until we did this.
 
Cheapest way to get instrument rating;

25hrs X/C is enough, get started.

Take about 7-8 hours of instruction from a CFII.

Find a buddy who can be a safety pilot, and rack up hours under the hood while flying x/c. Double bonus if your safety pilot is IA rated and current. Better yet find a pro-pilot time builder willing to chip in on the gas while you are under the hood (You can both log PIC when you are under the hood if certain requirements are met)

Study on your own, there are plenty of threads on books and study materials. I used "the complete advanced pilot" by bob gardner, "flying IFR" by richard collins and I studied for the exam with the sporty's study buddy program for ipad.

Once you have 30 hours or so, start training intensely with the CFII who will be signing you off for the practical.

This is how I went about getting my rating. I got it with 35 hours hood time and 5 hours in a simulator.
 
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Thanks for starting this thread smlt!

While I'm thinking about it, make sure you go to my thread entitled something like: "Journey to my Instrument Rating." Wayne put a post in there that is nothing short of EXCELLENT reading for someone beginning the IR journey. There are other posts by experienced folks that will be well worth the time it will take to read them.

Now to my thoughts. I got my private in December and started building XC time. I was slowed down when my mom broke her hip and started needing lots of help from my wife and myself, but I have now knocked out about 45 hours XC PIC time. During this time I consciously worked on holding accurate altitude and heading.

I had my first instrument lesson Thursday, and the instructor complemented me on my ability to hold altitude & heading. During your XC work, practice these two things rather than just roam around the sky. It will help you.

If you can line up a safety pilot or two it will help you financially. I'm having trouble with this because I live in the boondocks. I have someone who has volunteered for after the heat breaks and that helps a LOT.

After reading what Henning wrote, I'm almost tempted to take a few weeks of vacation and fly my butt off, but I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do.

You probably don't have to get 45 hours XC before starting your instrument work because as pointed out, you can build a good bit during the training, but I would think that you should probably do at least 25 or so, good quality accurate heading/altitude flying to get XC requirements as well as better skill in this area for when you start.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
While I have no experience with the Part 61 route, I have to agree with Henning's ideas about an intense concentrated path. My training, (USCG) was a seamless flow from basic to final type. It was a bit like drinking from a firehose, but when you do nothing but eat,sleep, and breath flying it digs deep furrows in your brain. At least it did for me.

I know that this may not be a possibility for many, but if you can keep your instruction condensed into a regular schedule and stick to it I suspect you will progress quickly. I might add, don't expect to do well if all your concentration begins when you walk into the FBO. Spend as much time as you can at home reading your study materials and anything else that will advance your knowledge. There is no such thing as knowing too much about instrument flying.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
While I have no experience with the Part 61 route, I have to agree with Henning's ideas about an intense concentrated path. My training, (USCG) was a seamless flow from basic to final type. It was a bit like drinking from a firehose, but when you do nothing but eat,sleep, and breath flying it digs deep furrows in your brain. At least it did for me.

I know that this may not be a possibility for many, but if you can keep your instruction condensed into a regular schedule and stick to it I suspect you will progress quickly. I might add, don't expect to do well if all your concentration begins when you walk into the FBO. Spend as much time as you can at home reading your study materials and anything else that will advance your knowledge. There is no such thing as knowing too much about instrument flying.
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Here's a comparison:

Private pilot - on my own (poor) dime: Flying three times a month. Result? Private pilot in 9 months and 72 hours including one busted checkride.

I then flew for several years and several hundred hours so when I started the instrument I had plenty of X/C time.

Instrument and commercial (using GI bill for 60% reimbursement): Flying 3 or four times a week. Result? I passed both rides on the first attempt, and wa actually "ahead" of the syllabus in ability but we flew the full programmed amount anyway.

The more frequently and the more consistently you train, the quicker you learn. I got my multi in five lessons over the course of a week. I got my CFI right on "schedule" too.

For every hour I spent in the airplane I spent at LEAST two studying at my desk or sitting in the airplane (for free) running touch drills.
 
TMetzinger said:
Here's a comparison:

Private pilot - on my own (poor) dime: Flying three times a month. Result? Private pilot in 9 months and 72 hours including one busted checkride.

I then flew for several years and several hundred hours so when I started the instrument I had plenty of X/C time.

Instrument and commercial (using GI bill for 60% reimbursement): Flying 3 or four times a week. Result? I passed both rides on the first attempt, and wa actually "ahead" of the syllabus in ability but we flew the full programmed amount anyway.

The more frequently and the more consistently you train, the quicker you learn. I got my multi in five lessons over the course of a week. I got my CFI right on "schedule" too.

For every hour I spent in the airplane I spent at LEAST two studying at my desk or sitting in the airplane (for free) running touch drills.
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Nice. But you need to consider that Coasties are the pinnacle of human evolution....lower forms may require more time. :yesnod:
 
I would agree with the concentrated training comments.

Many years of fits and starts and then a whirlwind week with Jesse in Nebraska where flight number 2 included the perfect conditions to fly an approach right down to honest-to-goodness minimums safely (Lincoln was fogged in, Omaha was VFR and severe clear at night), really got both the seriousness of what I was attempting and the techniques into my brain.

We got stuck not having a DPE available and eventually when I returned months later (when my schedule permitted) I was very happy to see that with a bit of polishing, it came right back. And I recognized the mental mistakes in the first couple of polish-up/Jesse's seeing how this is going, flights. Both were a good sign that it really "stuck".

I won't know how it goes over the long-haul for a while yet, but I plan on hiring a local CFII I did some early training with for an IPC in the late Fall. (I've actually gotten enough approaches under the hood since the rating that I'll be current in six months if I go do some holds, but I've seen the admonition from many folks here to get a few IPCs for the mental workout and intend to challenge myself with them.)

Save up the bucks but also do some XCs looking outside VFR that take you far enough away from the comfortable airports and weather of home that you're seeing different weather out the window and having to make weather decisions. It will help in the real world later when it dawns on you that the Instrument Rating doesn't make weather decisions easier, it makes them harder.

Then go hammer it home in a concentrated timeframe. That's my opinion anyway...

Hope that helps.
 
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