How long until glass panels cost $5 bucks?

Jay Honeck

Jay Honeck

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Jay Honeck
Answer: Now. There is now an app in the Google Play Store that converts your Nexus 7 into a G1000 clone. Price? $4.99.

Better yet, how about free? Here's a free app that turns the Nexus 7 into an Aspen clone:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ds.gyro

This stuff is amazing. In 2006-ish, our hangar neighbor in Iowa City, working in concert with the University of Iowa and Rockwell-Collins, created and installed a digital artificial horizon in his Bonanza.

The thing had cables snaking to remote sensors, a big power supply, and a 5" VGA display. It cost tens of thousands of dollars.

Now, just six years later, for $199 bucks I've got a 7" high-def display just a few millimeters thick that shows everything that thing did, and more.

Velcro it to the panel and fly. Un-freaking-real!

Here's a screen shot of the Aspen-like clone: (Ignore the volume control slider at the top -- that is an artifact of taking a screen shot with my N7 that isn't visible in use.)

yqyra9u2.jpg


Sent from my Nexus 7
 
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Eh, I still prefer panel mount or handheld devices over smart phones or tablet apps, but that's just me.
 
Tarheel Pilot said:
Eh, I still prefer panel mount or handheld devices over smart phones or tablet apps, but that's just me.
Click to expand...

Just like Garmin, sooner or later Aspen and Dynon will move into the tablet arena. If they don't, they will follow Narco into oblivion.

Imagine: If all of this changed in just six years, just think what we will have in-cockpit in 2018! :D

Sent from my Nexus 7
 
Jay Honeck said:
Just like Garmin, sooner or later Aspen and Dynon will move into the tablet arena. If they don't, they will follow Narco into oblivion.
Click to expand...

My plane had a Narco DME in it when I bought it. It was inop, and now it's gone :lol:
 
Jay Honeck said:
Just like Garmin, sooner or later Aspen and Dynon will move into the tablet arena. If they don't, they will follow Narco into oblivion.

Imagine: If all of this changed in just six years, just think what we will have in-cockpit in 2018! :D

Sent from my Nexus 7
Click to expand...


UAV's, no pilots!
 
I tried that app but only seemed to work when laying level on my lap, which isn't where I want to be looking if partial panel. Did I miss something?
 
LDJones said:
I tried that app but only seemed to work when laying level on my lap, which isn't where I want to be looking if partial panel. Did I miss something?
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Yep. Go to "settings" and you can change it so it works in the vertical plane.

It's an amazingly versatile app, for a freebie.
 
Would be nice if some day the FAA approved the iPad or Nexus for primary installation. lol

David
 
flhrci said:
Would be nice if some day the FAA approved the iPad or Nexus for primary installation. lol

David
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I'm not holding my breath on that -- but these tablets WILL offer an incredibly affordable upgrade for old steam-gauge airplanes like mine. Just velcro the thing over the DG and T&B, and go fly! :D
 
Jay Honeck said:
I'm not holding my breath on that -- but these tablets WILL offer an incredibly affordable upgrade for old steam-gauge airplanes like mine. Just velcro the thing over the DG and T&B, and go fly! :D
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Doesn't the reg say that you must have "instrumentation installed appropriate for the method of navigation necessary to complete the flight" or something like that? Doesn't say anything at all about having to USE the outdated navigation equipment. ;)
 
CJones said:
Doesn't the reg say that you must have "instrumentation installed appropriate for the method of navigation necessary to complete the flight" or something like that? Doesn't say anything at all about having to USE the outdated navigation equipment. ;)
Click to expand...

Exactly! The certified stuff will still be in the panel -- it will simply be covered by two or three Nexus 7s, depicting everything a G1000 system shows, for next to no $$$, relatively speaking.

Heck, I've got three Nexus 7s in my household already! Maybe I will be buying some velcro tomorrow... :D
 
Okay, so Mary just downloaded the $4.99 G1000 clone app onto her Nexus 7. We will try velcroing it to the panel tomorrow, while I use my Nexus 7 to run Garmin Pilot.

I can see an entire panel of fuzzy backed Velcro, with N7s stuck all over it, doing everything from in-flight music and movies to primary instruments and navigation. :yes:
 
I wouldn't put much faith in the cheap gyro's in the mobile devices. From what I understand, they develop error pretty quickly, especially under vibration. Very cool technology though.

I don't think the N7 has a barometer. My Nexus phone does, though, and I can't get a surprisingly accurate altimeter reading with it. You have to put in the altimeter setting manually, like normal, but it's pretty cool. Naviator supports it. I imagine someone could write an app that, when you have a data connection, constantly pulls altimeter setting from the web and keeps it calibrated during flight.

EDIT: "I can get a surprisingly accurate reading with it.
 
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bqmassey said:
I wouldn't put much faith in the cheap gyro's in the mobile devices. From what I understand, they develop error pretty quickly, especially under vibration. Very cool technology though.

I don't think the N7 has a barometer. My Nexus phone does, though, and I can't get a surprisingly accurate altimeter reading with it. You have to put in the altimeter setting manually, like normal, but it's pretty cool. Naviator supports it. I imagine someone could write an app that, when you have a data connection, constantly pulls altimeter setting from the web and keeps it calibrated during flight.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we're thinking of velcroing my Samsung Galaxy S3 to the panel, running the app pictured several posts back (above), just to see how it looks. The S3 has a pretty big, and extremely bright screen, so we'll see how this all comes together.
 
Henning said:
I don't really want it unless it's SVT.
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The iPad already has a rudimentary synthetic vision app, doesn't it? Something where you point it at a mountain, and it shows you the name of it, no?

And the N7 has an app where you can point it at any point in the sky, and it will tell you what heavenly body you're looking at.

SVT won't be far behind.
 
Jay Honeck said:
The iPad already has a rudimentary synthetic vision app, doesn't it? Something where you point it at a mountain, and it shows you the name of it, no?

And the N7 has an app where you can point it at any point in the sky, and it will tell you what heavenly body you're looking at.

SVT won't be far behind.
Click to expand...


Yes, WingX Pro7 has a full and getting better all the time eSVT system that can also provide ADS-B weather at least, I don't know about other in products. I don't currently use it and think it's a bit wasted on an iPad. I'm hoping Hilton will support the Win8 format as well. I don't recall them doing an Android version, but I'm probably going to get the Note II 5.5" device to trial as a phone so I'll see what's available then; my current phone is too small to bother.
 
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Henning said:
Yes, WingX Pro7 has a full and getting better all the time eSVT system that can also provide ADS-B weather at least, I don't know about other in products. I don't currently use it and think it's a bit wasted on an iPad. I'm hoping Hilton will support the Win8 format as well.
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Cool.

We are entering what is arguably the most exciting period of aircraft ownership in history -- thanks to the electronics revolution. Soon, thanks to ever-more-capable and affordable tablets, we will have the most amazing capabilities in our aircraft, all at an incredibly affordable price.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Here's a screen shot of the Aspen-like clone: (Ignore the volume control slider at the top -- that is an artifact of taking a screen shot with my N7 that isn't visible in use.)

yqyra9u2.jpg


Sent from my Nexus 7
Click to expand...

That's nowhere near an Aspen clone...
 
Steve Job said:
So what's the name of the G1000 clone app for android? I can't seem to find it.
Click to expand...

It's not called that -- and, no, it doesn't exactly emulate a G1000, for you literalists out there. Just search for "Flight instruments" -- it's the $4.99 one.

For five bucks you get a large artificial horizon, tapes for altitude and airspeed, and distance to the closest airfield. All you need for VFR flight, and a heckuva lot cheaper than even a single suction-powered DG.

I haven't flown with it yet -- I'll see how it goes tomorrow.
 
Jay Honeck said:
It's not called that -- and, no, it doesn't exactly emulate a G1000, for you literalists out there. Just search for "Flight instruments" -- it's the $4.99 one.

For five bucks you get a large artificial horizon, tapes for altitude and airspeed, and distance to the closest airfield. All you need for VFR flight, and a heckuva lot cheaper than even a single suction-powered DG.

I haven't flown with it yet -- I'll see how it goes tomorrow.
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I would prefer to know my IAS not groundspeed, you'll also get in trouble with ATC if you use the altitude much above ground level, the AI is also going to be very flaky and inaccurate unless you have it slaved to an external gyro. However, the apps for turn coordinators are somewhat accurate. :D
 
bartmc said:
I would prefer to know my IAS not groundspeed, you'll also get in trouble with ATC if you use the altitude much above ground level, the AI is also going to be very flaky and inaccurate unless you have it slaved to an external gyro. However, the apps for turn coordinators are somewhat accurate. :D
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This ^^^

Cute app, but:

GPS groundspeed does not equal airspeed.

GPS altitude does not equal altimeter.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Cool.

We are entering what is arguably the most exciting period of aircraft ownership in history -- thanks to the electronics revolution. Soon, thanks to ever-more-capable and affordable tablets, we will have the most amazing capabilities in our aircraft, all at an incredibly affordable price.
Click to expand...

Now if they could create an app to combat icing and dissipate thunderstorm.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I'm not holding my breath on that -- but these tablets WILL offer an incredibly affordable upgrade for old steam-gauge airplanes like mine. Just velcro the thing over the DG and T&B, and go fly! :D
Click to expand...

Are you out of your mind?

A phone is a TOY. I've tested the attitude measurements of an iPhone using their constellation apps against the sky. Errors are a minimum of several degrees, and can be arbitrarily wrong.

These are an "upgrade" to steam gauges just like a complete electrical failure is. You cannot trust the instrumentation. When instrumentation lies to you, it's better just not to have it at all.

This is not a G1000. It's a cheap copy. And if you bet your life on it, you're going to lose it. It MAY be useful as a trainer/sim. But I doubt it.

There will NEVER be a $5 panel. Just like there has never been a $5 computer. Hopefully, it will eventually get into four figures.

I hope you're kidding.
 
MAKG1 said:
Are you out of your mind?

A phone is a TOY. I've tested the attitude measurements of an iPhone using their constellation apps against the sky. Errors are a minimum of several degrees, and can be arbitrarily wrong.

These are an "upgrade" to steam gauges just like a complete electrical failure is. You cannot trust the instrumentation. When instrumentation lies to you, it's better just not to have it at all.

This is not a G1000. It's a cheap copy. And if you bet your life on it, you're going to lose it. It MAY be useful as a trainer/sim. But I doubt it.

There will NEVER be a $5 panel. Just like there has never been a $5 computer. Hopefully, it will eventually get into four figures.

I hope you're kidding.
Click to expand...

I'd be willing to bet that one of our ancestors in aviation said pretty much the same thing about them new-fangled VOR thingies. :rolleyes:

BTW: No one is suggesting flying the ILS to minimums using these things.

I'm gonna fly with two Nexus 7s and a Samsung Galaxy S3 later today. For VFR flight, I am prepared to bet money that the instrumentation provided by these devices will be superior to anything in the panel of my plane -- but you'll just have to await my report. :D

Sent from my Nexus 7
 
Jay Honeck said:
Cool.

We are entering what is arguably the most exciting period of aircraft ownership in history -- thanks to the electronics revolution. Soon, thanks to ever-more-capable and affordable tablets, we will have the most amazing capabilities in our aircraft, all at an incredibly affordable price.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't trust anything non dedicated and with a sunlight screen like a 796 to emergency fly on, however there are other ways to add Experimental grade avionics to the right side, like a G-300 or several other high quality low cost solutions. Remember, Velcro and plugs are your friend when it comes to unit placement requirements.
 
Henning said:
I wouldn't trust anything non dedicated and with a sunlight screen like a 796 to emergency fly on, however there are other ways to add Experimental grade avionics to the right side, like a G-300 or several other high quality low cost solutions. Remember, Velcro and plugs are your friend when it comes to unit placement requirements.
Click to expand...

After losing five minutes of my life that I shall never regain, fruitlessly searching for a Garmin G300 price, I must ask: What is "low cost"? How much does that set up cost?
 
Jay Honeck said:
It's not called that -- and, no, it doesn't exactly emulate a G1000, for you literalists out there. Just search for "Flight instruments" -- it's the $4.99 one.

For five bucks you get a large artificial horizon, tapes for altitude and airspeed, and distance to the closest airfield. All you need for VFR flight, and a heckuva lot cheaper than even a single suction-powered DG.

I haven't flown with it yet -- I'll see how it goes tomorrow.
Click to expand...

That is interesting. Also shows nearest airport. Just playing with it I can't get it to show anything but wings level. The freebie is working fine.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
This ^^^

Cute app, but:

GPS groundspeed does not equal airspeed.

GPS altitude does not equal altimeter.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I was just discussing this with Mary, and we realized that we use the aircraft airspeed indicator for just two things:

1. To avoid stalling. "Make sure that needle stays above THAT mark...".

2. To avoid overspeeding: "Make sure that needle stays below THAT mark..."

Otherwise, for all other aspects of flight, we use groundspeed.

Hmm....by factoring in the relative wind it should be possible to come up with a faux airspeed indicator. We need an app for that! :lol:

As for altimeter, someone said their phone had a barometer in it. I'll have to check the specs, to see if either the N7 or S3 has one. THAT would be slick!
 
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LDJones said:
That is interesting. Also shows nearest airport. Just playing with it I can't get it to show anything but wings level. The freebie is working fine.
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Yeah, the $5 one seems to require that you stabilize the device for a minute before it works. The freebie works right away -- go figure.

We're heading to the airport in a few minutes. Gotta find my velcro! :lol:
 
Just a couple thoughts.

If I am VFR and all I really need is a watch, chart, airspeed and altitude, why would I want this except as amusement? Seems like one more distraction from the actual flying of the airplane. :dunno:

If I encounter IMC by some stroke of idiocy on my part, it would be distracting at best. And kill me at worse. :yikes:

Might be entertainment for any Pax but for me, more gadgets and screens in the cockpit is not something I want or need. :lol: An EFB on dare I say, my iPad, is about all the non installed stuff is all I take along to use in flight.

Cheers
 
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Jay Honeck said:
I'd be willing to bet that one of our ancestors in aviation said pretty much the same thing about them new-fangled VOR thingies. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

VORs alone are not sufficient to save your life. And PLEASE take a logic class. Just because someone else might (or might not) have said something of a similar form has no bearing on whether another thing is correct or not.

Your argument boils down to all ideas being good ideas. They aren't.

I work in technology. I'm hardly a Luddite. But I'm also not a foaming-at-the-mouth fan. These things have limitations. They are completely inappropriate as avionics devices. Even the mounting will interfere with the measurement.

Technology is not magic. And you SIMPLY MUST understand that, along with all the relevant limitations, to decide what is possible and what is massively stupid. Using a smartphone as an AI qualifies squarely at the latter.

This is not a "gee, that doesn't seem like a very good idea." This is an "ARE YOU CRAZY!?" Put the phone down, get serious, and THINK about the implications of what you're proposing. This thing is a distraction (possibly very serious) in VMC, and it's no better than just using your balance in IMC. You cannot make an attitude measurement without a RIGID mount to the airframe. Velcro? Holy ****, Batman.
 
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Okay for $5.00 or less I can make a tablet emulate a G1000, but it is not a G1000. The G1000 software is the cheap part I would assume. What you pay for in the G1000 is the hardware. Does the emulation provide autopilot function? Does it provide me with the engine performance gauges? How about radios? How about picking up the VOR? The ILS? Does it tell me the wind speed out side? How about nearby traffic?

Add to the list.

Do I think the G1000 is worth 60k? No.
Do I think SVT is worth 10k? No. Which is why I have yet bought it.
Do I think a $5.00 app can replace my G1000? No.
Would I trust my life in marginal or worse IMC to a non certified app or for that matter something not meant for flying IFR? No.
So what use is the app then? All I can see is it is useful in VMC, and if I need my panel to tell me what to do in VMC then I think maybe I need more training on how to fly.

Okay I am done. Rip me apart.

Doug
 
Actually, the software costs for man-rated avionics are not at all negligible. There are probably millions of lines of code, every last one of which must be covered by an approved test case (DO-178C, level A). This is a huge amount of work. It's not the same as toy development. People actually take it rather seriously that a bug can kill.
 
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