how long does IFR checkride endorsement last?

[Badger]

Let's say someone receives the CFII endorsement for an IFR checkride, but does not do the checkride as anticipated.

How long is this endorsement good for before another CFII must re-endorse?

The endorsement has the standard verbiage ".....within the last 60 days..." etc.

Please reference FAR if possible. I have searched via FAR and Google but without success.
Thanks

via 61.39:
(6) Have an endorsement, if required by this part, in the applicant's logbook or training record that has been signed by an authorized instructor who certifies that the applicant—

(i) Has received and logged training time within 2 calendar months preceding the month of application in preparation for the practical test;

 

[ja_user]

Well they can't start a checkride unless they have that 60 day endorsement, and it is dated. Not that it is a good idea to wait 45 days after checkride prep, but it has been done.

 

[Badger]

Well they can't start a checkride unless they have that 60 day endorsement, and it is dated. Not that it is a good idea to wait 45 days after checkride prep, but it has been done.

the endorsement must state that within the past 60 days......but that doesn't mean the endorsement is only good for the next 60 days does it?

 

[Henning]

the endorsement must state that within the past 60 days......but that doesn't mean the endorsement is only good for the next 60 days does it?

Reads to me that the endorsement remains valid as long as there is training towards the rating within the last 60 days. So no I don't think you would need the endorsement redone, you just need a new training entry in your log book, or one within the last 2 calendar months, which isn't actually the same as 60 days, it can be longer.

 

[Badger]

Reads to me that the endorsement remains valid as long as there is training towards the rating within the last 60 days. So no I don't think you would need the endorsement redone, you just need a new training entry in your log book, or one within the last 2 calendar months, which isn't actually the same as 60 days, it can be longer.

that's how I interpreted the language.....I guess best bet is to call the testing examiner and verify his/her understanding.

 

[JOhnH]

Where's Ron when we need him?

 

[ja_user]

That doesn't make sense, if that was the case we could just sign everyone off on their 2nd lesson (at 3 hours) and let them go anytime they were ready.

Read Sec. 61.39 in its entirety.

You have to have all of these things, at the time of the test.

Prerequisites for practical tests.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), and (e) of this section, to be eligible for a practical test for a certificate or rating issued under this part, an applicant must:

(1) Pass the required knowledge test:

(i) Within the 24-calendar-month period preceding the month the applicant completes the practical test, if a knowledge test is required; or
(ii) Within the 60-calendar month period preceding the month the applicant completes the practical test for those applicants who complete the airline transport pilot certification training program in § 61.156 and pass the knowledge test for an airline transport pilot certificate with a multiengine class rating after July 31, 2014;


(2) Present the knowledge test report at the time of application for the practical test, if a knowledge test is required;
(3) Have satisfactorily accomplished the required training and obtained the aeronautical experience prescribed by this part for the certificate or rating sought;

(4) Hold at least a third-class medical certificate, if a medical certificate is required;

(5) Meet the prescribed age requirement of this part for the issuance of the certificate or rating sought;

(6) Have an endorsement, if required by this part, in the applicant's logbook or training record that has been signed by an authorized instructor who certifies that the applicant—


(i) Has received and logged training time within 2 calendar months preceding the month of application in preparation for the practical test;
(ii) Is prepared for the required practical test; and

(iii) Has demonstrated satisfactory knowledge of the subject areas in which the applicant was deficient on the airman knowledge test; and


(7) Have a completed and signed application form.

 

[Henning]

that's how I interpreted the language.....I guess best bet is to call the testing examiner and verify his/her understanding.

Yep, that's basically what it comes down to,"how does the examiner interpret it?"

 

[ja_user]

You can't just have an endorsement that says you had the training and are prepared, and then 6 months later go log a few more hours with an instructor and call it could. YOu wouldn't meet the requirement of (6) above.


One other thing, if you start the check ride, you must complete it within (I believe it is)60 days. If you do not, you get to start over.

So if you pass the oral and flunk the flight, (or defer for maintenance), the clock starts ticking..

 

[Velocity173]

Where's Ron when we need him?

Left due to POA slowness / database errors.

 

[Badger]

Sam, I hear what you're saying. but...

according to the rule: can I have all my training and get the endorsement, and submit the IACRA, then say 3 months later take the checkride? I still think yes.

 

[ja_user]

Would you show up with a medical that was valid when you filled out the application too? Or will you show up with a current one?

If you have an endorsement that says you received the 2 months training, but the endorsement is older than that. You can expect issues, if it is noticed of course.

No one is really going to try this anyway are they? Just get another endorsement.

 

[Henning]

Sam, I hear what you're saying. but...

according to the rule: can I have all my training and get the endorsement, and submit the IACRA, then say 3 months later take the checkride? I still think yes.

Ooo, that's a different question again, does IACRA time out?

 

[ja_user]

Sam, I hear what you're saying. but...

according to the rule: can I have all my training and get the endorsement, and submit the IACRA, then say 3 months later take the checkride? I still think yes.

I would argue that you would meet the criteria of ii and iii, but wouldn't be able to meet the criteria of i. It isn't good enough to have the training, you need to have the endorsement that says so. And an old endorsement doesn't meet the criteria of section 6(i)

(6) Have an endorsement, if required by this part, in the applicant's logbook or training record that has been signed by an authorized instructor who certifies that the applicant—


(i) Has received and logged training time within 2 calendar months preceding the month of application in preparation for the practical test;
(ii) Is prepared for the required practical test; and

(iii) Has demonstrated satisfactory knowledge of the subject areas in which the applicant was deficient on the airman knowledge test; and

 

[Henning]

I would argue that you would meet the criteria of ii and iii, but wouldn't be able to meet the criteria of i. It isn't good enough to have the training, you need to have the endorsement that says so. And an old endorsement doesn't meet the criteria of section 6(i)

(6) Have an endorsement, if required by this part, in the applicant's logbook or training record that has been signed by an authorized instructor who certifies that the applicant—


(i) Has received and logged training time within 2 calendar months preceding the month of application in preparation for the practical test;
(ii) Is prepared for the required practical test; and

(iii) Has demonstrated satisfactory knowledge of the subject areas in which the applicant was deficient on the airman knowledge test; and

The endorsement date may need to be modified with the new training, but I wouldn't think he needs to rewrite the endorsement.

 

[ja_user]

Ooo, that's a different question again, does IACRA time out?

Actually I don't think it does. The one I am thinking of, Iacra excepted everything and then months later OKC called and said too much time had passed to complete the checkride (they didn't fly due to mechanical issues), and too much time passed between the oral and the flying. So they had to go do it all again, and no credit for previous tasks was allowed, at least not according to the paper records.

 

[ja_user]

The endorsement date may need to be modified with the new training, but I wouldn't think he needs to rewrite the endorsement.

So now we can write endorsements and just keep marking out the date and writing in new ones?

Maybe I'll just mark out the part of my old Solo endorsement that says Single Engine Land , and write in Single Engine Sea..

Don't tell my students that are flying on Solo endorsements, they have the technology..