How long between flights are you still safe?

John Baker

John Baker

Final Approach
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John Baker
This year I haven't been getting much time in the air at all, probably about once a month, if that. The few times I have flown, I have not had any problems at all, other than one or two student grade landings.

I flew with my instructor after a particularly long break, a couple of months, and it was like I had flown a few days earlier. He said it is a lot like riding a bike.

So if that is true, what is, or what do you think is, too long of a break between flights, to fly by yourself?

How long have you gone without flying, then climbed into your cockpit and thought, I really should not be doing this by myself?

Or put another way, how long of a break can you take from flying before you are not a safe pilot?

What is the longest you have gone?

-John
 
I'd venture to say that the answer varies drastically from pilot to pilot. The biggest contributing factor is probably the experience level of the pilot in question. A post solo student pilot that takes a month off is going to struggle as compared to a pilot with several years and hundreds of hours of experience under his belt.

Personally, I've taken several months off and have gone out very confident that I could fly safely.
 
Ditto Jason's response. I'm a pretty "young" pilot (~200 hrs), but I can still tell a noticeable difference in my "proficiency inertia" now compared to when I first got my ticket.
 
I fly around 700 to 800 hours a year. My schedule is 7 days on and 7 days off. My vacation (2 tours a year) equate to 3 weeks off per vacation. I am allowed to take them both back to back if I choose and that would make 5 weeks off straight. I've never done that but some have. Some super senior folks get 3 tours off per year. That would be 7 weeks off straight, but the company doesn't allow that for the reason the OP is asking about.

My experience;

I am okay after a week off. On day 1 I feel fine and 'in tune' with what's going on. After a vacation though (3 weeks off) I can notice some rust building up. Flows are a little weaker, procedures and callouts suffer and I have to really focus on getting back to standard.

We also have two variants of the same aircraft. If I fly one of them for months and months and then get stuck in the other it takes awhile to adjust to the new switch locations. ie, one of them the heading knob in up on the glare shield and the other it's down on the pedistal. So when I go from the one where it's down to the one where it's up I always find myself reaching down to change heading and grab nothing... relise it and have to reach again. You get the idea.

To the OP, I'd say it's a personal thing based on how many hours a year you fly and how well you do personally in remembering what to do. I don't think any one answer could possibly fit everyone. I'd just go by your personal feeling and be honest with yourself.
 
I would echo Captain's remarks and add I would also weigh the mission planned. If it was a CAVU day and a one hour flight to a well known field....no biggie. If it was a three hour leg to a unfamiliar field near minimums and an alternate equally unfamiliar I would HAVE to be in peak form or would not even contemplate a shot.
 
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I had 5 weeks off for my annual and I would say it is not so much the stick skills as the habits, procedures and situational awareness. I guess pretty much what the captain said, but not at the professional level.
 
I was off for a year (only 60hrs total) with no flying and when I got back in the air I did not notice any difference. I thikn it's because during my year off, I still played my flights out in my head and with microsoft flight simulator.
 
redshift said:
I was off for a year (only 60hrs total) with no flying and when I got back in the air I did not notice any difference. I thikn it's because during my year off, I still played my flights out in my head and with microsoft flight simulator.
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:confused::confused:
 
I'd echo what's been said about variations from pilot to pilot, and also depending on what type of flying one does. If you haven't flown in a few weeks or a month and are looking at taking off into night low IMC for a long hard IFR flight, that's probably not the smartest idea for most pilots. On a pretty day, however, I could easily see several months not making much of a difference. You also have some pilots for whom a long period of time away from the plane doesn't seem to matter.

I think the big differences come into play when something goes wrong. For someone who knows the plane like the back of his or her hand, the responses will be faster, probably better, and likely have a more positive outcome. I know that if I'm in a plane that I haven't flown in a while and have lost some of my intimate familiarity with, I wouldn't expect to recognize and respond to a failure as quickly.

Like Captain, I fly a good number of hours per year - about 500-600 on average (although this year is looking to be lower). I'd say that I notice rust similar to him build up after a few weeks, and especially if I switch between aircraft. The 310 is the plane that I know the best these days, and I can hop in that and fly it with a longer off time without consequence. Aztec and Navajo are about tied for #2 since I have 900 hours in the Aztec (but barely fly it anymore) and fly the Navajo pretty regularly.
 
redshift said:
I was off for a year (only 60hrs total) with no flying and when I got back in the air I did not notice any difference. I thikn it's because during my year off, I still played my flights out in my head and with microsoft flight simulator.
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I think it's more likely that you lacked the experience to recognize the deterioration in your proficiency.

I'm with what Jason said in post #2 -- it varies from pilot to pilot based on experience and proficiency level at the time the pilot stopped flying, and there is no way for anyone to give a reasonable guess for anyone else. My advice would be that if you have even the slightest doubt, you grab an instructor for that first ride after the break and let him/her be the judge.
 
Ron Levy said:
My advice would be that if you have even the slightest doubt, you grab an instructor for that first ride after the break and let him/her be the judge.
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I'd agree with this, with the modification that it be an instructor or alternately an experienced pilot who you trust and who is flying regularly.

It's also worth adding that there's a lot of benefit to the idea of going for recurrent training/proficiency flights, even if you are flying regularly. Same criteria on who to go with as above, or go do some sim training.
 
I find that some time off does not seriously affect my basic airplane-handling abilities- I can take of, fly, land and do all that magic stuff reasonably well.

What does noticeably suffer, is what I call "presence of mind" - the ability to remain ahead of events in my planning and execution. For example, I find myself less likely to have automatically done my pre-descent checks.
 
SCCutler said:
I find that some time off does not seriously affect my basic airplane-handling abilities- I can take of, fly, land and do all that magic stuff reasonably well.

What does noticeably suffer, is what I call "presence of mind" - the ability to remain ahead of events in my planning and execution. For example, I find myself less likely to have automatically done my pre-descent checks.
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Yeah, stick and rudder seems the last to suffer. Basic 'housekeeping' chores seem the first to go. In a crew environment it's the standardization of flows and call outs where it's noticed. Plus, it sorta feels like a wet blanket is wrapped around my brain. I have to make a conscious effort to think through it and focus on the task at hand.

After a couple legs it burns off and I'm back in the saddle.
 
I didn't fly much last year and when I started back hard this year I noticed my landings were horrible. It took about 2hs in the pattern to clean them up to where I was happy.
 
Over about a 30 year period, I could count the number of times I landed an airplane without running out of fingers.

Flying my brothers T-18 out of KEAU during that time period, I was glad I had 150 feet of width - I needed all of it.

Getting flight reviewed in a Cessna 150 - not so bad. Landings were not pretty, but at no point did the instructor grab the yoke. Mostly he just put his head between his knees and whimpered.

On the other hand, my first crosswind landing on pavement in my current ride was, well, close.

The main thing is that there's a lot of little stuff you forget.
 
I took twenty-six years off. It took me four or five hours of dual to get to the point where my instructor let me solo again, and another couple of hours before I felt comfortable. I only had a couple hundred hours total at the time, PP/ASEL. So not the most experienced. After that I tried to fly every week. I figured that several short flights were better than one long flight, so a lot of times I just flew over to a neighboring airport for coffee. If I had an instrument rating and was flying long distances IFR, or into controlled air space all the time, I would think that it would take a lot more than just tooling around the boonies though.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
I'd agree with this, with the modification that it be an instructor or alternately an experienced pilot who you trust and who is flying regularly.

It's also worth adding that there's a lot of benefit to the idea of going for recurrent training/proficiency flights, even if you are flying regularly. Same criteria on who to go with as above, or go do some sim training.
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The only downside to this is if it has been more than 90 days you'd have passenger carrying currency issues.
 
Ron Levy said:
Unfortunately, the legal currency issues are more easily solved than the proficiency issues.
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I don't know...1 landing could be a one off miracle. 2 landings the pilot might be lucky. 3 landings? That's demonstrated proficiency!
 
The longest I've ever gone between flights since I first started lessons is three weeks (might break that record if the weather this weekend doesn't work out). I haven't noticed any difference in my abilities after three weeks, but I definitely feel more nervous before the flight than if I just the week before.

Early on in training, I felt rusty after just one week without flying. I had saved up so I could fly 2-3 times a week for the first few months, figuring bigger gaps between lessons would be less of a problem once I was more experienced.
 
jason said:
The only downside to this is if it has been more than 90 days you'd have passenger carrying currency issues.
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You are correct, however depending on what you're looking at (such as instrument proficiency), that can go far quicker.

Additionally, you need to look at who's available around you. For example, where I am there aren't any people who are really any good with 310s. I'd be more interested in flying with the previous owner of the plane. 3000 hours of his butt in the left seat in that exact plane trumps any of the CFIs around here who have minimal 310 experience and a demonstrated lack of 310 knowledge.

I'm not saying to break the rules, of course, but simply to break the notion that "a CFI" is necessarily the best person to fly with.
 
Captain said:
I don't know...1 landing could be a one off miracle. 2 landings the pilot might be lucky. 3 landings? That's demonstrated proficiency!
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...or lack thereof. I've sat around and watched one plane make five or six lousy landings in a row. No luck at all -- and no skill, either. Just the same lousy technique again and again.
 
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Ron Levy said:
...or lack thereof. I've sat around and watched one plane make five or six lousy landings in a row. No luck at all -- and no skill, either. Just the same lousy technique again and again.
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Practice makes permanent. ;)
 
Ron Levy said:
I think it's more likely that you lacked the experience to recognize the deterioration in your proficiency.
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While his story might be a stretch, there is something to be said about the difference between being completely removed from aviation and spending alot of time thinking about it between time in the air.

I've had a couple prolonged periods without flying. The first was during my Chief Engineer tour - was so bloody busy that I didn't even think about airplanes let alone go near one for over a year. When I did get back into flying, basic stuff like starting up and getting to the runway was painfully slow - I had lost my flow and was constantly checking to see if I missed something.

The second time was a 7 month deployment, but I spent every day of that studying for my commercial and constantly going through systems, checklists and chair flying through the commercial PTS maneuvers. When I stepped back in a plane as soon as I got home......it was like I had never been away.

Similar to the story of the Vietnam POW who was an avid golfer and spent most of his prison time playing golf in his mind. Then when he was released and went to the course, he shot a great round.
 
It was a J3 Cub that I was flying as a sport pilot, so I agree that I only had the basic stick and rudder skills, nothing more. I took an instructor up with me and he didn't say a word nor take the controls at all during my short XC one year after the last time I flew. I'm sure if I was flying a C172 or something bigger, I'd be very very rusty....or would I? I played a Cub simulator (very very realistic, mind you) every week and treated it like the real deal.

I was, however, very nervous when I hit turbulence and wind shear, so it took a while for me to get back "in the saddle".
 
Was a CFI with 500 hours then life got in the way. After 20 years started flying again. It all came back fast but on my second flight was doing T/Gs and noticed after reaching pattern altitude that the carb heat was still out.

For me the stick skills were like riding a bike but things as simple as shoving carb heat in on takeoff were lost over time.

Todd
 
Flying physical skills seem to me to be slow to deteriorate. The mental skills, the ease of doing the flows and checks and configuration changes, they deteriorate much faster.

I won't fly IFR after an absence of more that a couple of weeks without either a practice flight with a safety pilot or CFII or a solo sim session in something like a redbird. I'm comfortable with my ability to self-assess in a sim because the device records enough data that I can tell if I missed something. And in the airplane I can tell how hard I'm working, as my proficiency flights are modelled on IPCs with failures, flying raw data and coupled, really designed to push myself to make mistakes, rather than to log approaches.

Everyone is different though, this isn't a one-size-fits-all thing.

Oh, wait, maybe there IS a one-size-fits-all answer. Since you may be betting your life on it, and everyone is different, how confident are YOU in YOUR proficiency to make the flight? You should be asking yourself this before every flight anyway, how long it's been since your last flight is just one of the factors.
 
Swampfox201 said:
Was a CFI with 500 hours then life got in the way. After 20 years started flying again. It all came back fast but on my second flight was doing T/Gs and noticed after reaching pattern altitude that the carb heat was still out.

For me the stick skills were like riding a bike but things as simple as shoving carb heat in on takeoff were lost over time.

Todd
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What made you remember? Checklist?
 
I remember getting a very serious reminder of how much the airplane doesn't care that you are out of currency. 29 days out of the cockpit, was literally on a commercial flight coming home from the Thanksgiving holidays with the Mrs when I saw the flight schedule had me on for a good deal single ship currency flight out to the working area, kind of borderline crew rest launch the next morning. I take off, have a good time cloud surfing and checking out some of the boats offshore San Clemente and socal at low level, start climbing up, call socal approach for my clearance back, and almost immediately get the dreaded "engine left engine left" aural caution. Look down, and see that my left motor has started losing oil pressure at an alarming rate. Declare an emergency, secure the engine, and start working the recovery. I'm still assuming that bad things can't really happen on such nice days on such good deal flights, and I take the indications as a faulty sensor. None-the-less, check in with tower, they clear me with a ready deck for a short field arrestment (for various considerations), and I trap about 5 minutes later. Very abrupt end to what should have been a very simple and routine flight. I get out and see that the entire underside of the jet has been coated in oil, and the motor had basically drained itself. Kind of random story, but it was a good lesson early in my career that things can and will come out and bite you when you least expect them....especially when you aren't really on top of your game. I have no specific amount of days/years/etc that makes you "unsafe", but the tall hairs on your neck should always be standing up when you are not really current or proficient. Same for the times when you are so proficient that the monotony creates complacency.
 
denverpilot said:
What made you remember? Checklist?
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I guess I'm confused about what you mean.

I remembered when I looked down and saw the carb heat out on crosswind. I've done it twice since becoming current again. Makes me mad that I'm forgetting something so simple.
 
Swampfox201 said:
I guess I'm confused about what you mean.

I remembered when I looked down and saw the carb heat out on crosswind. I've done it twice since becoming current again. Makes me mad that I'm forgetting something so simple.
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I was wondering if you usually utilize a checklist or not. It sounds like, no?

(Not judging. Looking for hints for myself and others as to how to avoid such things... A checklist seems good here.)
 
denverpilot said:
I was wondering if you usually utilize a checklist or not. It sounds like, no?

(Not judging. Looking for hints for myself and others as to how to avoid such things... A checklist seems good here.)
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You are correct. I don't use a checklist here. I had a mental one but somehow it got misplaced. :)
 
Ron Levy said:
...or lack thereof. I've sat around and watched one plane make five or six lousy landings in a row. No luck at all -- and no skill, either. Just the same lousy technique again and again.
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Repeating the same action over and over expecting a different result isn't lousy technique...it is the definition of insanity!!! :D
 
denverpilot said:
I was wondering if you usually utilize a checklist or not. It sounds like, no?

(Not judging. Looking for hints for myself and others as to how to avoid such things... A checklist seems good here.)
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But he said it was while doing touch and go's. Do you read a checklist during touch and go's?

I don't know about anyone else however being heads down reading a checklist at 50mph is more likely to cause problems than doing things from memory.
 
fgcason said:
But he said it was while doing touch and go's. Do you read a checklist during touch and go's?

I don't know about anyone else however being heads down reading a checklist at 50mph is more likely to cause problems than doing things from memory.
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Who flies a pattern at 50 kts mph? Yes, I use a checklist in the pattern. After takeoff and before landing only. No descent or approach.
 
Captain said:
Who flies a pattern at 50 kts mph? Yes, I use a checklist in the pattern. After takeoff and before landing only. No descent or approach.
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Single pilot in a traffic pattern, you are reading off a checklist?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
No I don't, but I can't think of many time where carb heat was required for takeoff (plenty of fire breathing heat going on up front) and my "abeam the point of intended landing" call out to myself is, "abeam the point, carb heat on, throttle 1800, flaps 10". Whenever the throttle goes forward I use the "thumb push" method on the carb heat so it's not left on.

Which is "doable" in my plane and most Cessnas, but some throttle quadrants make that thumb sticking out thing easier than others.

I've been doing that fallout since 1991, so it's second nature, even if I haven't flown in a long time.

Was just asking if he thought there were techniques like that or a checklist would help not forget it.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Single pilot in a traffic pattern, you are reading off a checklist?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Grrrr. I'd like to say 'yes'. But, honestly, fixed gear I might blow it off. Maybe a time to break out 'GUMPS'.
 
denverpilot said:
No I don't, but I can't think of many time where carb heat was required for takeoff (plenty of fire breathing heat going on up front) and my "abeam the point of intended landing" call out to myself is, "abeam the point, carb heat on, throttle 1800, flaps 10". Whenever the throttle goes forward I use the "thumb push" method on the carb heat so it's not left on.

Which is "doable" in my plane and most Cessnas, but some throttle quadrants make that thumb sticking out thing easier than others.

I've been doing that fallout since 1991, so it's second nature, even if I haven't flown in a long time.

Was just asking if he thought there were techniques like that or a checklist would help not forget it.
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I'll sure try the thumb push method. Hadn't ever tried that before. Thanks.
 
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