How is the cost of an annual calculated...

cleared4theoption

cleared4theoption

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Flowery Branch, GA
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Jeremy
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...or any other inspection for that matter?

Is it a flat fee? Hourly? Depends?
I am asking because I (being of the entrepreneurial spirit) am interested in getting my A&P, and my IA and potentially doing inspections free-lance. Just wonder what the earning potential vs investment would be like.
 
I think they measure the size of your anus and figure out just how badly they can rape you.
 
Some shops use a flat fee, while others use hourly charges, either way plus materials (like oil and filters and such). Any additional work done to fix things found during the inspection is usually charged by the hour (again, plus parts and material)
 
My shop charges a flat for the inspection, but everything they find is extra.
 
The Navion is flat feed at $1200 if the mechanic did the previous annual as well.
Didn't find too much extra this year (one nav bulb and the oil change and a small patch to the cowling.
 
In my area of Georgia a Cherokee annual runs between $600 to $700 for the base inspection. My last annual was $3600 but that also included a carb replacement, new oil cooler hoses, elevator counter weight inspection, oil and filter change and other miscellaneous items.
 
cleared4theoption said:
...or any other inspection for that matter?

Is it a flat fee? Hourly? Depends?
I am asking because I (being of the entrepreneurial spirit) am interested in getting my A&P, and my IA and potentially doing inspections free-lance. Just wonder what the earning potential vs investment would be like.
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It varies, but you should know the answer to your question prior to signing the work order.

Free lanced A&P-IAs will charge a flat fee for the inspection, and a standard rate for repairing discrepancies, and or maintenance to the aircraft.
FBOs usually charge a shop hourly rate for ALL hours they work on your aircraft, which usually includes the inspection.

ALWAYS read the fine print in the Work Order, I know several shops that have the right to keep your logs until the bill is paid, and others may add ALL discrepancies must be repaired before the inspection is signed off airworthy.
 
My shop has some list of hours per airplane. My Arrow is 21 hours and the least on the list, like a Cherokee 140, is 14 hours.
 
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Base for mine $1250. I got a discount on that for doing a lot of the grunt work and other wise staying out of the way. ;) Anything found costs additional.
 
The fee for the annual is calculated the way most things are in a free market economy. For one thing, I would never shop price for an annual. If I trust the A&P to do a thorough job and not rip me off I will pay a much higher fee than I would to some guy that has a toolbox in a pickup truck and offers me a good deal to do it in my hangar. Unless of course, that guy in the pickup somehow earned my trust.

I can call my A&P almost any time, day or night, weekends, holidays and he will answer his phone and if I need him, he will come over. I would pay him more than someone that may not be there for me when I need him. And he knows I will call him first, so he takes care of me. And I think he finally fixed the high CHT problem on my O360.

Oh, my last annual was $1,400 and included installing new break fairings on the wheel pants and a few other minor repairs.
 
Will this board or its users ever be able to tell the difference between repairs/maintenance and inspections?
:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
 
It depends what kind of car you show up in, which is why most pilots own at least one beater they drive to the airport.
 
Tom-D said:
Will this board or its users ever be able to tell the difference between repairs/maintenance and inspections?
:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
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Seems to me there was a pretty clear distinction in the answers between the cost of the annual and the cost to address any discrepancies found!:dunno: What more do you want? I fully agree that they are two different amounts. OTOH, they are frequently lumped onto a single invoice! Fight your battle with those who invoice them as one, not those who report the total cost!
 
Tom-D said:
Will this board or its users ever be able to tell the difference between repairs/maintenance and inspections?
:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
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You've taught us. What are you thinking is wrong here?

Cessna says 29 hours for a properly done inspection -- only. No repairs.

Are you thinking the prices given are out of line for 29 hours of shop labor these days?

What I'm seeing in the thread is pretty close to what we're seeing around here.

Taking one of the prices that seems about average on this thread, $1250... That's $43 an hour.

Which is it... Do you work cheaper or faster, Tom? ;)

Inspection plus repairs/maintenance/desires/squawks is going to easily top three AMUs these days on even a "simple" Cessna at many shops.

If you want a little upgrade or something different every year while the airplane is already torn apart... that becomes a pretty typical number for "annual expense", not just the "annual inspection".

Different areas of the country vary wildly, as does the quality of service from shop to shop. As you've also taught us all...
 
denverpilot said:
If you want a little upgrade or something different every year while the airplane is already torn apart... that becomes a pretty typical number for "annual expense", not just the "annual inspection".
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The C-150 I'm working on recently has been down since last oct. It has had the engine overhauled, the engine mount refinished, the rudder pedals, instrument panel, and the entire interior out to facilitate a fire wall replacement, 1 muffler was replaced, much of the wiring harness was replaced. The owner has completed much of the labor under supervision of several A&Ps and now I'm working by the hour to finish. I've put well over 80 hours in this project and will sign off the annual when we finish.

So what should I place on the annual bill? all the hours? (which I have already been paid for)
or just my regular fee?

The FAA only requires an A&P-IA to have access to the FARs, and ADs and service information (Service bulletins) to complete the annual, They are not required to have any tools, do any repairs, or service the aircraft.
 
cleared4theoption said:
...or any other inspection for that matter?

Is it a flat fee? Hourly? Depends?
I am asking because I (being of the entrepreneurial spirit) am interested in getting my A&P, and my IA and potentially doing inspections free-lance. Just wonder what the earning potential vs investment would be like.
Click to expand...

In this economy you will starve to death until you gain a reputation of quality work and fair prices. You will find the bigger the customer base the more money you will make, and the more it will cost to operate your business.
Most states require you have a business license, and pay B&O taxes.
The FAA requires you to be an A&P for 3 years before applying for the Inspection Authorization and then you can start to charge more than the Minimum wage.

It's a tough business to get started on your own, most A&Ps I know started working for a shop and worked there until they could either take over the business after the owner retired or branched out on their own after a customer base had been established.

Good luck with your plan, we don't see many getting it done any more.
 
Tom-D said:
In this economy you will starve to death until you gain a reputation of quality work and fair prices. You will find the bigger the customer base the more money you will make, and the more it will cost to operate your business.
Most states require you have a business license, and pay B&O taxes.
The FAA requires you to be an A&P for 3 years before applying for the Inspection Authorization and then you can start to charge more than the Minimum wage.

It's a tough business to get started on your own, most A&Ps I know started working for a shop and worked there until they could either take over the business after the owner retired or branched out on their own after a customer base had been established.

Good luck with your plan, we don't see many getting it done any more.
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Not planning on doing it as my only source of income.
 
My guy is well known and has been established for many years. He just moved into a new shop and hangar from his old one. He has always seemed very conscientious to me and very helpful when it comes to minor things that I can under supervision. He's more expensive than the van guys that show up at your hangar. For me it is worth the extra money to be able to know where I can find him and to be able to call him anytime. I've had him call me back within minutes when he was on vacation. Not many folks will do that.
 
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I pay a set fee for an annual, anywhere from a case of beer to $1200 depending on the amount of the open, close and clean they need to do. Most of the time I do all of that so I've paid a case of beer- couple hundred bucks more often than the $1200.
 
Tom-D said:
Do you know this guy?

http://www.youraircraftinspection.com/default.html
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Nope, but sounds like the kind of guy I'd find for an annual if I was in the area. Luckily, there's still a fair few like him. I've actually been paid coming in for my annual by trading out work on another plane for the inspection and sign off plus he figured he owed me for a couple days.
 
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Tom-D said:
Will this board or its users ever be able to tell the difference between repairs/maintenance and inspections?
:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
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Since you replied to my post, I have to ask you what confused you about my ability to tell the difference between repairs and inspections? The person that does the inspection part of the annual, and is responsible for approving an airplane as airworthy is far more important than the person that does the actual repair, although they are frequently the same person.

A good annual does not necessarily require repairs. In my last case, there were a few, plus some elective mods that were included in the price. Is that what made you think I didn't know the difference? I did point out those "repairs" as distinct from the annual.

I will accept your apology now.
 
Tom-D said:
In this economy you will starve to death until you gain a reputation of quality work and fair prices. You will find the bigger the customer base the more money you will make, and the more it will cost to operate your business.
Most states require you have a business license, and pay B&O taxes.
The FAA requires you to be an A&P for 3 years before applying for the Inspection Authorization and then you can start to charge more than the Minimum wage.

It's a tough business to get started on your own, most A&Ps I know started working for a shop and worked there until they could either take over the business after the owner retired or branched out on their own after a customer base had been established.

Good luck with your plan, we don't see many getting it done any more.
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I think that was my point when you decided to attack me.
 
JOhnH said:
I think that was my point when you decided to attack me.
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Pointing out that there are folks that think all maintenance completed during the inspection is part of the inspection, shouldn't be construed as an attack on you.

But if that is what you believe, Oh Well.
 
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