How hard is it to build an airplane?

DavidWhite

DavidWhite

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DW
So, as some of you know I am selling the Mooney - I can't afford airplane I want so I'm figuring why not build it? I've got a big hangar with plenty of space and some decent mechanical know how. I'm not the quickest worker but I think I'm competent. I want an RV.
 
DavidWhite said:
So, as some of you know I am selling the Mooney - I can't afford airplane I want so I'm figuring why not build it? I've got a big hangar with plenty of space and some decent mechanical know how. I'm not the quickest worker but I think I'm competent. I want an RV.
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You're qualified. Just do it!

Your only issue is which one. The '10 will seem like an upgrade. The '14 may be the sweetest one yet. Both are fantastic traveling machines and the operational cost savings are significant and real.

Welcome aboard
 
My .02 cents, is only build an airplane if you want to build an airplane. Don't build one to try and save money or for anyone other reason than you want to build one.

But it can be a very rewarding experience!!


-VanDy
 
VanDy said:
My .02 cents, is only build an airplane if you want to build an airplane. Don't build one to try and save money or for anyone other reason than you want to build one.

But it can be a very rewarding experience!!


-VanDy
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I've talked about it before and it sounds like fun - now I actually have a reason to. I have an airplane to fly for the interim and not many hobbies.
 
VanDy said:
My .02 cents, is only build an airplane if you want to build an airplane. Don't build one to try and save money or for anyone other reason than you want to build one.

But it can be a very rewarding experience!!


-VanDy
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What he said
 
I know I definitely wouldn't save any money, but I could spread the cost out more and make it manageable.
 
I'd say no. You've changed your mind and/or plans gosh knows how many times already, and it's not likely to stop anytime soon. Your are the prototypical rolling stone, building an airplane is a case study in gathering moss.
 
wabower said:
I'd say no. You've changed your mind and/or plans gosh knows how many times already, and it's not likely to stop anytime soon. Your are the prototypical rolling stone, building an airplane is a case study in gathering moss.
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Yeah that. And you are too young to have an airplane project. Remember most guys that spend years building these things are anchored in the same place by mortgages/wives/children/fixed cube warming schedule/etc. Screw that, ain't no freedom in a partly built airplane.
 
An RV is a great airplane for a first time builder. If you have basic mechanical skills and can read a blueprint and instructions you can build a RV. If you decide to build you have to commit yourself 100%. The best way to finish a homebuilt is to do something on it every day even if only for 1/2 hour or so. The 14 looks like a great airplane and if i was to build a RV today it is probably what I would choose. Since 2005 I have built a RV7, Backcountry Super Cub and am finishing a RV7 for a friend and doing the fuselage of a Zenith 750 for another guy so I know a little about homebuilding. Don
 

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I wish you lived next door.

yakdriver said:
An RV is a great airplane for a first time builder. If you have basic mechanical skills and can read a blueprint and instructions you can build a RV. If you decide to build you have to commit yourself 100%. The best way to finish a homebuilt is to do something on it every day even if only for 1/2 hour or so. The 14 looks like a great airplane and if i was to build a RV today it is probably what I would choose. Since 2005 I have built a RV7, Backcountry Super Cub and am finishing a RV7 for a friend and doing the fuselage of a Zenith 750 for another guy so I know a little about homebuilding. Don
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DavidWhite said:
So, as some of you know I am selling the Mooney - I can't afford airplane I want so I'm figuring why not build it? I've got a big hangar with plenty of space and some decent mechanical know how. I'm not the quickest worker but I think I'm competent. I want an RV.
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Did you state your budget for, "What you want"?
 
David,

You very well can save money, but you'll invest a lot of time. Trading labor for money is a fair and time honored tradition. A completed RV-7 seems to be selling for $20-30K more than the build cost, from what I've seen recently (which works out to a pretty low wage). You'll also be able to spread the cost over a longer period of time. Most importantly, you can build WHAT you want, the way you want it built. And an RV can be an amazing flying machine.

Having said that... do you plan to be in one place for the next several years? Are you willing to devote most of your recreational time to building? If you're going to be moving, you will NOT want to move a partially built airplane plus all the tools and parts. I know others have done so, but I would not start building unless I was sure I was going to be able to finish it in the same place. Yeah, the rolling stone vs. moss thing.

Of course if you want to get a taste of it, come on down and help me rivet wing skins and finish my flaps. I'm about 2 weeks behind where I wanted to be right now, I want these wings out of my garage before July (probably not going to make it). If you want to rivet while I manage the bucking bar, I can get back on track... and you'll either fall in love with building, or decide on something else. :)
 
wabower said:
I'd say no. You've changed your mind and/or plans gosh knows how many times already, and it's not likely to stop anytime soon. Your are the prototypical rolling stone, building an airplane is a case study in gathering moss.
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Agreed. Unless he's under house arrest, he has no business tying himself down to a project like building an airplane at this point in his life.
 
One of the greatest barriers to completion, believe it or not is proximity to where you sleep and eat. If you have to commute, even 5 miles from your domicile to your project, there's a high probability you won't finish it.

I have only limited experience building two Vari-Eze from plans back in the late 80s. I was not skilled at FG work, and layups and vacu-forming. So, some of the structures I did needed to be destroyed and redone - by me. I got better, but it takes a crazy long time to make progress.

Another observation I've heard that helps is to not think of it as building a plane. Think of it as building - the tailfeathers. The left wing. The right wing. The fuselage. The cockpit. Then, at some point you can think of it as an 'airplane' but break things down into manageable sub-asm.

Look on Barnstormers.com for an unfinished kit. There are hundreds out there.

edit: This is exactly what I would grab up. A lot of major work in, but you can still inspect just about every rivet, and structure at this point.

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_786575_SONEX+Airframe+KIT+TD+.html
 
DaleB said:
David,

You very well can save money, but you'll invest a lot of time. Trading labor for money is a fair and time honored tradition. A completed RV-7 seems to be selling for $20-30K more than the build cost, from what I've seen recently (which works out to a pretty low wage). You'll also be able to spread the cost over a longer period of time. Most importantly, you can build WHAT you want, the way you want it built. And an RV can be an amazing flying machine.

Having said that... do you plan to be in one place for the next several years? Are you willing to devote most of your recreational time to building? If you're going to be moving, you will NOT want to move a partially built airplane plus all the tools and parts. I know others have done so, but I would not start building unless I was sure I was going to be able to finish it in the same place. Yeah, the rolling stone vs. moss thing.

Of course if you want to get a taste of it, come on down and help me rivet wing skins and finish my flaps. I'm about 2 weeks behind where I wanted to be right now, I want these wings out of my garage before July (probably not going to make it). If you want to rivet while I manage the bucking bar, I can get back on track... and you'll either fall in love with building, or decide on something else. :)
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Are structural, solid core CherryMax pulled rivets acceptable? Would save a TON of time installed with a pneumatic gun, IF they are within design load limits....
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Are structural, solid core CherryMax pulled rivets acceptable? Would save a TON of time installed with a pneumatic gun, IF they are within design load limits....
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I can tell you that they are used extensively on the Sonex build. Here's a link to a builder with a pic of the Cherry Max pnue rivet gun. Yes, that would save hours. I don't know about other builds, but I would guess it's a popular method. If I were to build one, I'd go with flush rivets on the outer skins, and might use the Cherry on the inner stuff.

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_782666_Cmplete+Sonex+Kit+w_tools.html
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Are structural, solid core CherryMax pulled rivets acceptable? Would save a TON of time installed with a pneumatic gun, IF they are within design load limits....
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I believe the RV-12 uses pulled rivets.

The Sonex family of airplanes as well as the Zenith Family of airplanes also use pulled rivets. The Sonex designs do use driven rivets in the wing spar.

Cheers
 
What would it cost to have someone build an rv 10 or 14 for you? Do companies do that for you? Is that legal?
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Are structural, solid core CherryMax pulled rivets acceptable? Would save a TON of time installed with a pneumatic gun, IF they are within design load limits....
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At about a buck apiece for the rivets, you'd end up with $15k more in the project, and you'd have an oddball airplane that might be very hard to resell.

Besides, driving rivets is pretty fast. You spend all of the time drilling, deburring, dimpling, countersinking, etc. Driving the rivets is a minor part of the project.
 
marcoseddi said:
What would it cost to have someone build an rv 10 or 14 for you? Do companies do that for you? Is that legal?
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For a 10? My guess is $250,000-$300,000 and the legality is various shades of gray depending on who you ask. IMHO find one already assembled if you want to save a buck.
 
wabower said:
I'd say no. You've changed your mind and/or plans gosh knows how many times already, and it's not likely to stop anytime soon. Your are the prototypical rolling stone, building an airplane is a case study in gathering moss.
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DaleB said:
...

Having said that... do you plan to be in one place for the next several years? Are you willing to devote most of your recreational time to building? If you're going to be moving, you will NOT want to move a partially built airplane plus all the tools and parts. I know others have done so, but I would not start building unless I was sure I was going to be able to finish it in the same place. Yeah, the rolling stone vs. moss thing.
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I'm advising against it just now because, to be honest, you don't know where you are going to be for the next couple of years. There are so very many homebuilt projects that reach a percentage of completion, then sit... because the vicissitudes of life intervened in the sequence of homebuilding.

Have you settled on not going to college anytime soon? You've already expressed pretty strong dissatisfaction with your job situation, and while it sounds like the money there is decent, the hours and workload are a real bear (which leaves no time and energy for a high-concentration pursuit like airplane building).

Building a plane is a wonderful thing to do... but now? Like I said above, I'd advise against it.
 
marcoseddi said:
What would it cost to have someone build an rv 10 or 14 for you? Do companies do that for you? Is that legal?
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It's my understanding that it's not legal but one could build it for oneself, fly it for a few hours, decide they don't like it, and sell it to you.

A few years ago there was a guy in Sandersville, Ga who did this...may still be there.
 
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Dave, Do you notice it is the guys who have never built an airplane are the ones advising against it. Don
 
So the legality Is it must be built by the owe'ner? Is he allowed to hire helpers?
 
marcoseddi said:
So the legality Is it must be built by the owe'ner? Is he allowed to hire helpers?
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51% of the airplane has to be "amateur" built so you can hire out up to 49% (wink wink nod nod). The biggest deal the FAA had with guys having their airplane built for hire is that they were applying for the repairman certificate and had obviously not built the airplane. They really clamped down on this in the last few years so it is harder to get around the rules. Don
 
David, if you are that into saving money and building an airplane buy a set of plans. Nothing less expensive.

Me, I'd tell you to go buy an RV. There are plenty out there far less expensive than the Mooney you're trying to unload. There is one just down the way from me, a tail dragger no less.

I do tend to agree with some of the other posters vis-a-vis your situation. You do not know where you'll be in a couple years time. That said, there are people who finish projects after multiple moves, but it usually takes them awhile.

The other reason I think you shouldn't is building an aircraft will be another activity that insulates you from your surrounding community. You have plenty to do that as it is.
 
Maybe this will lead you into a new passion and find another career route or life route try everything do everything!
 
I've been threatening spend a couple months doing the summer back-country tour for longer than I like to admit.

yakdriver said:
Move to Idaho Wayne. Then you would have a great place to fly that 180. Don
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Building a plane is not hard.............:no:

Finishing it is...:yes::redface:
 
Well, I am one of the "I'm gonna build an RV" failure guys. So, I'm allowed to encourage caution.
I have an RV7 with the tail group complete.
I carefully figured out my time and thought I would cut back on working hours and bang the airplane out two half days a week and on weekends
Of course, it was a fools dream. As the only doc in a small town (35 years) there was no way I was going to get off the 14 hours a day treadmill.
SO then I thought, well I will retire in a few years and have to fill that 14 hour day with "something" so I'll just wait.
I waited and I waited, and I waited. The Great Spirit finally got tired of my procrastinating and gave me a swift boot in the rear. After four months of hospital rehab I was upright and taking nourishment and no longer working 14 hours a day. In fact, I was no longer working.
PERFECT. Now is the time, I thought.

So I'm out in the shop dragging out tools and stuff I have not seen in years. In fits and starts as about ten minutes on my feet was my limit. My oldest son saunters in and says, hey dad the farm over on Dice road is for sale. Let's go look at it. Long story short, it is three years later, and three farms, and I am only working 12 hours a day.
The RV kit is still neatly stacked on shelves. Maybe I'll get to it someday.

The point of this rambling diatribe is that life happens. And life does not happen to like airplane building.
SO unless you are on a position - physically, financially, and psychically - where you can tell the world to 'get the heck away from me' (and slam the phone/door down) it is gonna do it's darnedest to stop you from building a plane.
 
One thing nice about a RV is that you can buy the tail kit for not a lot of money and see if you like building. I did my RV7 quickbuild kit in 14 months working on it 20-25hrs a week. The Super Cub took about the same time in hours but took 21/2 years because I played in the summers. Having a nice work area is also important. My workshop hangar is 42x38 and is insulated with heat and a window A/C for those hot days. Working in a T-shirt on those cold snowy days is great. Don
 
Brad Z said:
Agreed. Unless he's under house arrest, he has no business tying himself down to a project like building an airplane at this point in his life.
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why not? We built several homebuilt gliders in college. I even strung a hot wire and cut the foam for the wings in the dining room of my fraternity house, since we didn't have reliable power in our sub-let hangar.
 
If you can't come up with the time to install the plastic fairing on your motorcycle that's been sitting on the workbench for two months, or to set the delivery date for the furniture you ordered and paid for over a month ago, building an airplane is going to be a bit challenging. It will take years, require lots of dedication, and in the end you'll save very littl money as your cost will scope creep on you the entire time since you always want the latest and greatest. :)

You'll save more money buying something done.
 
jesse said:
If you can't come up with the time to install the plastic fairing on your motorcycle that's been sitting on the workbench for two months, or to set the delivery date for the furniture you ordered and paid for over a month ago, building an airplane is going to be a bit challenging. It will take years, require lots of dedication, and in the end you'll save very littl money as your cost will scope creep on you the entire time since you always want the latest and greatest. :)

You'll save more money buying something done.
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building an airplane is not about saving anything, it's about creating something where nothing existed before. As you note, if you're not a person that by nature creates things, then you aren't going to start with an airplane.
 
The personal satisfaction of flying something you built cannot be expressed in words. The pride of completing the plane and overcoming the pit falls of building is life long.
 
As much as I would love to build an airplane I am afraid that about when I find I have the time to work on such a project I will be ready for some IRAN physically. It would be very frustrating to build something and then not be able to fly it.

I would see the toughest part of constructing an aircraft being the finish. Seems the wings, tail, fuselage would all be items where you and others could see great progress. Once you get into pulleys, cables and miles of wire I could see the frustrations starting.

Don't they say The Devil is in the details?

What kind of roadblocks did you come up against with your RV-10?
 
tmyers said:
What kind of roadblocks did you come up against with your RV-10?
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I have been doing a lot of research about building a LSA including attending a couple of builders workshops. I find that the airframe is the easiest part and actually pretty simple when using a matched drilled kit like the Zenith or Sonex Family. The engine installation and avionics (if any) make up the majority of headaches I have read about. It's the story of 80% complete with 50% to go.;)

Just about to pull the trigger on a OneX empennage kit to get started building a plane of my own. :yes:

Cheers
 
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