How far away can I get a Contact Approach?

[Pi1otguy]

Here is my situation. I'm flying from Torrance, CA (TOA) to Tulare, CA (TLR) under IFR. The weather was MVFR with 3sm HZ SKC amd I'm coming from the south and near Shafter VOR (EHF) I get "EHF V165 DINUB VIS" as an amended routing, basically a wide left U turn instead of a direct heading. Since the weather was still MVFR and the approach guy was down multiple sectors I canceled IFR and hit "D->" on the GPS. In an earlier times (pre-gps pre-IA) I would have proceed VFR by DR and pilotage.

The terrain is incredibly flat and lack towers high enough to be of concern.

1. If the visibility at TLR had dropped to below VFR while over EHF, could I get a contact approach so far out (40nm) to avoid taking the "long way"?
2. If not, would approach be likely to grant me an outbound radial from EHF towards the airport until close enough for a contact approach?

 

[poadeleted20]

It is unlikely any controller will clear you for a contact approach from 40nm out unless there is absolutely nothing in the way of airports or airspace in that stretch. Even then, it is pretty difficult to imagine you could be sure that you could "reasonably expect to continue to the destination airport" clear of clouds from that far away. The most likely option would be just to be cleared to a fix near the destination airport with an expected clearance to some SIAP if you don't get sight of enough to request a contact approach once you get close.

 

[bbchien]

Here is my situation. I'm flying from Torrance, CA (TOA) to Tulare, CA (TLR) under IFR. The weather was MVFR with 3sm HZ SKC amd I'm coming from the south and near Shafter VOR (EHF) I get "EHF V165 DINUB VIS" as an amended routing, basically a wide left U turn instead of a direct heading. Since the weather was still MVFR and the approach guy was down multiple sectors I canceled IFR and hit "D->" on the GPS. In an earlier times (pre-gps pre-IA) I would have proceed VFR by DR and pilotage.

The terrain is incredibly flat and lack towers high enough to be of concern.

1. If the visibility at TLR had dropped to below VFR while over EHF, could I get a contact approach so far out (40nm) to avoid taking the "long way"?
2. If not, would approach be likely to grant me an outbound radial from EHF towards the airport until close enough for a contact approach?

Shomari, the problem here is the territory of the controller. 40 nm will certainly exceed the tower controllers' territory, and likely the AppCon's authority. And because a Contact Approach is a final approach clearance, the AppCon controller will not be authorized to give it to you.

Think feudal territories and you'll see it!

 

[swamppilot]

Bruce, I am assuming that your reference to AppCon is the Approach Control(er). If they are not authorized to issue an approach, who is? You are right about the 40 miles, however, that's way out of the ordinary.

 

[bbchien]

Bruce, I am assuming that your reference to AppCon is the Approach Control(er). If they are not authorized to issue an approach, who is? You are right about the 40 miles, however, that's way out of the ordinary.

You can get them occasionally from an approach controller, in a fast aircraft ten to twenty miles out. But the problem here is TIME. The Approach controller has to be able to tell tower when the guy is going to arrive, so as to fit traffic. As in, "sorry I was on the landline....". 40 nm at 100 knots? TOO long in most places.

 

[Pi1otguy]

Ok, 40 miles is way too far, but I guess I should say something like arranging for a more direct heading with a contact approach in mind the same way we get routings with a particular VOR or ILS in mind. Something along the lines of getting a direct course from EHF with "expect a contact approach in xx miles" would be closer to what I really meant.

 

[bbchien]

Think Feudal Lords.
Think Feudal Lords.
Think Feudal Lords.
It's not a happening thing, mon....

 

[Dave Siciliano]

The practical side of this is when you're near the airport and have the vis and cloud clearance to go in essentially visually. It makes sense to expedite things, avoid vectoring, avoid procedure turns and sometimes avoid worse conditions. It's not really meant to be an alternative to IFR or to be special VFR.

I've used it several times where I was very close to the field and didn't want the full procedure. Once, at Rockford I was right over the field on an effective downwind and saw the runway; they would have had to vector me six or seven miles up to do the procedure turn, come in on the BC LOC to 19 through very bad stuff on that approach. This allowed me to avoid all of that, and got me down quickly without the controller having to do all that vectoring. Worked out well for both of us.

Best,

Dave

 

[poadeleted20]

Ok, 40 miles is way too far, but I guess I should say something like arranging for a more direct heading with a contact approach in mind the same way we get routings with a particular VOR or ILS in mind. Something along the lines of getting a direct course from EHF with "expect a contact approach in xx miles" would be closer to what I really meant.

It's possible, but pretty risky, because what do you (and the controller) do if you get there and find the weather doesn't allow a contact approach? Now you have to get cleared back to an IAF (or vectored to a final approach course) for a SIAP. Sure, if the weather's good enough that they're doing visuals (usually around 2500-3000 and 5), you can usually get a vector towards the airport for that, but controllers are reluctant to bet their flow on you being able to make a contact approach in MVFR weather until you're close enough to see whether you can really do it or not.

 

[gismo]

Bruce, I am assuming that your reference to AppCon is the Approach Control(er). If they are not authorized to issue an approach, who is? You are right about the 40 miles, however, that's way out of the ordinary.

You'd get a contact approach clearance from approach control, but not likely from that far out anywhere besides northern North Dakota or a similarly uninhabited region. What you needed to do is get vectored (or cleared if you have IFR GPS) direct to the airport with a request for a contact approach when you get near. No matter what type of approach clearance you are seeking it's not likely forthcoming before you get within 10-15 miles.