How does ATC always know when I am about to enter IMC?

[ScottM]

Today I flew over to visit my sister for dinner. The plan was to leave SRQ at 2pm local for the 1:10 flight to LNA over on Florida's east coast. It was CAVU by SRQ but about 10 minutes east there was a line of clouds with bases at 3200 and tops at 8000, nearer to West Palm Beach the clouds dropped to about 2700. I decided to file IFR and fly south and then pick up a VOR north east of Fort Meyers (LBV) turn east and take radar vectors to LNA.

Upon departure ATC had me head west while climbing to my altitude of 7000MSL before turning east. All was going good and I was in the groove with a good scan as I was getting ready to enter clouds. But just as I was about to enter and had thought all would be well, it was as if ATC knew that I was comfortable and ready to go, the radio crackles 225JA climb 9000 turn right heading 120 for traffic. CRAP! just as I was going IMC I am turning and climbing. I break out on top a few minutes later.

I settle into the new course but the clouds are building with some gentle cummulas so there are a couple of bumps. I can see in a few minutes that I am going to be back into IMC. Again the radio goes off for a course change followed a few moments later by another and yet another. Grrrrr, can't they just leave me be with out having all these turns in IMC??

I start to break out again just east of Lake Okechobee and I know in a few minutes they will start me down from 9000MSL. I start to prepare as I can see a few more clouds up ahead. Sure enough just as I am entering IMC again I get a turn along with the decent to 6000MSL. By this time I have just resigned myself to having a little bit of the leans throughout the flight.

I just want to know how is it that ATC always seems to know the worst time to give you course and altitude changes when poping in and out of the clouds. You cannot tell me that their radar does not see these clouds and that they are all having a good laugh at the pilots they give the leans to

 

[alaskaflyer]

I thought you were from Chicago? BTW when I think of Cary I think of here.

 

[NC Pilot]

BTW when I think of Cary I think of here.

Ah, Containment Area for Relocated Yankees. WAY too close to where I live. Everytime I move a little farther away Cary expands and moves closer. Expanding their territory like the Borg.

Sigh

 

[grattonja]

ATC definitely has a sense of humor. The vector that actually takes you THROUGH the localizer is when they call, after you've corrected the vector and are just about well established, with "34G, contact tower on...". Or right when the needle is starting to center on the procedure turn, just as you are coming down to inbound altitude, same thing.

I swear there must be a course at ATC school in "most inopportune moments to call the pilot on the radio, 101". LOL!

Jim G

 

[Anthony]

Ah, Containment Area for Relocated Yankees. WAY too close to where I live. Everytime I move a little farther away Cary expands and moves closer. Expanding their territory like the Borg.

Sigh

I think I'd rather have the Yankees, than the Californians we have here. Well, I take that back. Only if they're not from NYC or environs.

 

[ScottM]

I thought you were from Chicago? BTW when I think of Cary I think of here.

I live in Chicago but I get to go visit all the smart people in my family who refused to live where you only have good weather for 3 months out of the year


Most of my family is in Florida so I am here about every three months and rent a plane when I am here to make the trips around the state to visit. It is much faster and more efficient than driving.

 

[mdreger]

I'm sure it is part of the same course that teaches pilots how and when to, after 15 min or more of dead air time, call the controller at EXACTLY the same moment, giving a nice loud squeal in the ear.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Ah, Containment Area for Relocated Yankees. WAY too close to where I live. Everytime I move a little farther away Cary expands and moves closer. Expanding their territory like the Borg.

Sigh

My brother just moved to Apex from Holly Springs. Imagine his consternation when his new mailing address actually came up as Cary.

Looking at flying my parents from TN to visit my bro in May - the lack of available GA airport options in that area is interesting. I'll probably just file IFR to RDU instead I guess

 

[alaskaflyer]

I'm sure it is part of the same course that teaches pilots how and when to, after 15 min or more of dead air time, call the controller at EXACTLY the same moment, giving a nice loud squeal in the ear.

LOL! That happens in the Fairbanks TRSA all the time! No one can tell me that humans aren't just a little bit psychic!

 

[cherokeeflyboy]

My brother just moved to Apex from Holly Springs. Imagine his consternation when his new mailing address actually came up as Cary.

Looking at flying my parents from TN to visit my bro in May - the lack of available GA airport options in that area is interesting. I'll probably just file IFR to RDU instead I guess

If your bro is coming from Apex, it is about 15-20 min ride(in car) down US 1 south towards Sanford(TTA) On the other hand, RDU is very GA friendly.Parking your car leaves alot to be desired and the gas is higher there of course. If you are up to it, there is a private grass field in Apex. (Cox field) I am sure Bobby Cox and or EAA chapter 1114 would allow you there. (I,of course, cannot speak for them, but if interested, PM me I will give you the contact numbers)

KD
Still in New Jersey wishing I were back home in Tarheel land!!

 

[Pilawt]

I just want to know how is it that ATC always seems to know the worst time to give you course and altitude changes when poping in and out of the clouds. You cannot tell me that their radar does not see these clouds and that they are all having a good laugh at the pilots they give the leans to

The controllers I deal with have honed it into an art. They delight in giving me a new heading and altitude, timed perfectly so that I have to roll out on the new heading, at the precise moment that I reach the assigned altitude, resulting in a three-axis acceleration guaranteed to induce vertigo -- while I'm reaching for the radio to tune to the new freq he just assigned. I bet if he keyed the mike a little early I'd hear him say, "Hey, Fred, watch this!"

(Just kidding, guys ... you know we love you! )

-- Pilawt

 

[rcaligan]

There I was...just after takeoff, climbout instructions were to maintain runway heading. Enter the soup at about 500' AGL, tops around 3000.

TOWER: "Change to departure frequency approved"

I call approach at about 600' AGL, and they give me an amended clearance that started with with "proceed direct XXXXX" (some fix I never heard of).

ME: "Standby"

THEM: "We need you to proceed direct XXXXX to remain clear of class bravo airspace"

ME: "Then give me a vector and standby with the rest" (which they did)

Only when I popped out did I get the rest of the clearance.

 

[wsuffa]

THEM: "We need you to proceed direct XXXXX to remain clear of class bravo airspace"

And this, right here, is the real problem. ATC has created a virtual ban on small GA entering Class B airspace in many areas, even areas where we used to be allowed to enter and transit. I see more and more of it each time I fly.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

And this, right here, is the real problem. ATC has created a virtual ban on small GA entering Class B airspace in many areas, even areas where we used to be allowed to enter and transit. I see more and more of it each time I fly.

Geesh, and today I requested flight following twice and center put me right into the Class B and gave me direct even when I didn't request it!!

Shucks! I was all set to complain!!

On the way back to Addison tonight from the southwest (50F Boreland), they put me right over D/FW at 3,500 feet. Golololy (best Earnie Pile voice) you shoulda seen all the traffic on the TIS! So many little dots on the left and right they all just blurred together. Delta this, American that...all flyin under little ole me

Dave

 

[wsuffa]

Dave, Dallas is still one of the "good ones". I put Houston in that category, too. Y'all got some good controllers up there. San Antonio (Class C) does, too, almost never here "Stay clear of..." down here.

 

[NC Pilot]

If your bro is coming from Apex, it is about 15-20 min ride(in car) down US 1 south towards Sanford(TTA) On the other hand, RDU is very GA friendly.Parking your car leaves alot to be desired and the gas is higher there of course. If you are up to it, there is a private grass field in Apex. (Cox field) I am sure Bobby Cox and or EAA chapter 1114 would allow you there. (I,of course, cannot speak for them, but if interested, PM me I will give you the contact numbers)

KD
Still in New Jersey wishing I were back home in Tarheel land!!

I second KD's advice. If he is not able to get you Bobby Cox's number to call about landing at Cox Field, let me know. Otherwise, TTA is a great GA airport.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Geesh, and today I requested flight following twice and center put me right into the Class B and gave me direct even when I didn't request it!!

Shucks! I was all set to complain!!

On the way back to Addison tonight from the southwest (50F Boreland), they put me right over D/FW at 3,500 feet. Golololy (best Earnie Pile voice) you shoulda seen all the traffic on the TIS! So many little dots on the left and right they all just blurred together. Delta this, American that...all flyin under little ole me

Dave

Ooops, was trying to imitate Gomer Pyle: not Earnie

 

[HPNFlyGirl]

BTW when I think of Cary I think of here.

I live in that area also.

Mark....Since you know what CARY stands for do you know what CLAYTON stands for?

Cary
Like
Area
Yankees
Trying
Out
Now

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Dave, Dallas is still one of the "good ones". I put Houston in that category, too. Y'all got some good controllers up there. San Antonio (Class C) does, too, almost never here "Stay clear of..." down here.

Hmmm. We should have a way to rank how friendly or unfriendly the various B's and C's are on here somewhere...

Madison (C): VERY friendly. Only time I've ever heard "remain clear of Charlie" was when my transponder was on the fritz, and they let me in a minute later. Practice approaches are also pretty much always given, even when they're busy. A+.

Houston (B): Let me transit their airspace *five* times in the four days I was down there last summer. Very nice. A.

Tampa (B): Let me transit while in and out of North Tampa Aero Park in January, both in and out, and provided FF as long as I was in their area too. A.

Chicago (B): Yes, they are every bit as bad as the stories. Usually don't even bother telling VFR traffic to remain clear - They just ignore you unless you use a lot of time on frequency pestering them because you think your radio isn't working when they don't even answer. There is one sector that works traffic in/out of DPA that I've had slightly better luck with, but I was IFR on the way in (to 1C5) and while I was VFR on the way out, I had an IFR plan on file. They did answer and provide FF long enough to get us back into Chicago Center airspace. Former CFI said the only time he got into Chicago's B was at 2:30 AM, IFR, in a Seneca. Prolly thought he was a freight dog or something. F.

Milwaukee (C): Wishes they were Chicago, but at least they answer. Expect to hear "Remain clear of class Charlie" unless you're landing at MKE (the main airport). D. (And if you are landing at MKE, you make up for being able to get into the C by having to pay $44 for a piston single to park at $ignature for two hours. )

 

[rcaligan]

Hmmm. We should have a way to rank how friendly or unfriendly the various B's and C's are on here somewhere...

Madison (C): VERY friendly. Only time I've ever heard "remain clear of Charlie" was when my transponder was on the fritz, and they let me in a minute later. Practice approaches are also pretty much always given, even when they're busy. A+.

Houston (B): Let me transit their airspace *five* times in the four days I was down there last summer. Very nice. A.

Tampa (B): Let me transit while in and out of North Tampa Aero Park in January, both in and out, and provided FF as long as I was in their area too. A.

Chicago (B): Yes, they are every bit as bad as the stories. Usually don't even bother telling VFR traffic to remain clear - They just ignore you unless you use a lot of time on frequency pestering them because you think your radio isn't working when they don't even answer. There is one sector that works traffic in/out of DPA that I've had slightly better luck with, but I was IFR on the way in (to 1C5) and while I was VFR on the way out, I had an IFR plan on file. They did answer and provide FF long enough to get us back into Chicago Center airspace. Former CFI said the only time he got into Chicago's B was at 2:30 AM, IFR, in a Seneca. Prolly thought he was a freight dog or something. F.

Milwaukee (C): Wishes they were Chicago, but at least they answer. Expect to hear "Remain clear of class Charlie" unless you're landing at MKE (the main airport). D. (And if you are landing at MKE, you make up for being able to get into the C by having to pay $44 for a piston single to park at $ignature for two hours. )

I've only really flown in two busy Class B areas: DFW and Atlanta.

DFW was never a problem...always gave me whatever I wanted.
ATL simply will NOT let you in the Class B if you're not going to Hartsfield.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

I agree with Kent for the most part. Don't know if I recall all areas off the top of my head and since I'm IFR a lot on cross country trips, some of this is pretty seamless for me.

D/FW is great. I have had them keep me out of Class B, but not often.

Houston has been very good the few times I went through.

Orlando was very cooperative when I was on the way to cozumel! Also good other times.

ADIZ went well for me IFR, they just changed my flight plan several times while single pilot IFR in clouds just below the freezing level.

St. Louis made me climb to 170 to pass over or they would have taken me around. Seemed quite suprised when I stated I would climb.

Chicago was not problem when I passed over at FL190 going from Wisconsin to Orlando. Going east over the lake at 11,000 they took me north farther than I would have liked to stay out of their approach path.

Atlanta was not an issue at FL190 on the way to Orlando.

San Diego got me in and out when dropping off a passenger. Did have to hold for about 10 minutes before I could follow a 737 in.

Tampa has been a zoo on several occassions for me. Most of the time I cancel IFR and proceed VFR is possible and not landing in the Class B.

Many Class Cs , Madison, El Paso etc. None have really been problematic unless I just caught them on a really busy day.

Dave