how do you remember cloud clearances for vfr

korben88

korben88

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I am struggling with remembering what the distances are for clouds. Do you guys have any tips?
 
Thanks for asking because I struggle with it too and would like to hear a good ROT how to remember.

Let's see, is it 500' below? 1000' above? 1000' sideways, 500' above, 2000' downwind?

Aw **** it, ..... just stay the hell away from clouds! ;):D
 
Large tape measure.

or...

Three Cessna 152's

3/152

Three Miles Visibility
1000' Above
500' Below
2000' Horizontal

Three is the first number in that group, that tells me what I need ahead of me off my nose (visibility)

1000' is the higher number...it is above 500', which is the lower number and below.

2 represents 2000' is at the tail of the group...I need 2000' between me and the cloud behind me (or side of me).

First person to tell me how to measure 2000' while in the air wins.
 
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Shawn said:
First person to tell me how to measure 2000' while in the air wins.
Click to expand...

in a 152 it is easy, you are 2000 feet away about 30 seconds after you exit the cloud :)
 
But it changes above 1200 and day an night are different. I can't remember which is which
 
If you're asking for a checkride, I tried many of the methods above, but ultimately fell back on rote memorization.

From a practical standpoint, one of my favorite pieces of kit is my Sporty's lapdesk. It happens to have an IFR and VFR placard attached to it which includes, among other things, VFR minima for quick reference:

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/vfr-kneeboard-placard-7-3-8-in-x-7-1-2-in.html
http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/ifr-kneeboard-placard-7-3-8-in-x-7-1-2-in.html

korben88 said:
BTW what exactly is "clear of clouds"?
Click to expand...

That just means that you're not actually inside a cloud... you could be a foot away from the clouds and be legal, but you probably want to stay comfortably farther than that if you're not instrument rated.
 
korben88 said:
But it changes above 1200 and day an night are different. I can't remember which is which
Click to expand...

Only for G. Day, 1SM clear of clouds below 1200, above 1200 1 SM 500 below, 1000 above, 2000 horizontal.

G night, 3SM 500 below, 1000 above, 2000 horizontal.

You just have to remember them, but I use 1 SM day, 3 sm night. Above 1200 during day, it is normal distances (normal being 152), night is all the same, 3SM normal distances.
 
clarkmueller said:
If you're asking for a checkride, I tried many of the methods above, but ultimately fell back on rote memorization.

From a practical standpoint, one of my favorite pieces of kit is my Sporty's lapdesk. It happens to have an IFR and VFR placard attached to it which includes, among other things, VFR minima for quick reference:

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/vfr-kneeboard-placard-7-3-8-in-x-7-1-2-in.html
http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/ifr-kneeboard-placard-7-3-8-in-x-7-1-2-in.html



That just means that you're not actually inside a cloud... you could be a foot away from the clouds and be legal, but you probably want to stay comfortably farther than that if you're not instrument rated.
Click to expand...

My kneeboard has the vfr version. I need to remember for testing though.
v
 
korben88 said:
I am struggling with remembering what the distances are for clouds. Do you guys have any tips?
Click to expand...

Once you learn the standard VFR minimums (500 below, 1000 feet above, 2,000 lateral, and 3 miles viz), all you need to do is learn the logical exceptions:

1) clear of clouds in class B because you're on a clearance operating under positive separation in class B (i.e you don't have to worry about a plane jumping out from a cloud at you).

2) higher cloud clearances above 10k due to no speed restrictions. 1,000 above and below, 1 mile laterally, 5 miles viz.

3) Daytime class G. This is VFR down in the weeds for cropdusters, pattern flyers and the like. 1 mile of visibility and clear of clouds.
 
Brad Z said:
Once you learn the standard VFR minimums (500 below, 1000 feet above, 2,000 lateral, and 3 miles viz), all you need to do is learn the logical exceptions:

1) clear of clouds in class B because you're on a clearance operating under positive separation in class B (i.e you don't have to worry about a plane jumping out from a cloud at you).

2) higher cloud clearances above 10k due to no speed restrictions. 1,000 above and below, 1 mile laterally, 5 miles viz.

3) Daytime class G. This is VFR down in the weeds for cropdusters, pattern flyers and the like. 1 mile of visibility and clear of clouds.
Click to expand...

Hi. I forget about #3 as this has too much detail in the actual reg. Under 10k, I go by 500 x 2 = 1000 x 2 = 2000; so, 500 below / 1000 above / 2000 horizontally, all w/ 3 miles vis. Above 10k, per #2, above. Oh, and because I fly near ORD, I completely forget about #1 as I never go into ORD Class B airspace.
 
So here's what I did.
A, B, C, D are easy.

I struggled w/ E and G as most probably did.


I created this little graphic and when I got to the checkride, the first thing I did was draw it.

My BFR is this morning and I just pulled it up to refresh my memory on it.



attachment.php



Another thing that helps reinforce it is the "Why?"

Remember at hat 10k feet, the speed limit goes up so 5 miles visibility is there to give you more reaction time due to faster closure rate.

Tip for memory: G under 1200 is the lowest because you are just doing pattern work.
You are working a 1 mile runway and 1k pattern alt. gives you another 200 foot buffer to remain clear of the clouds


And when you jot it down, it is real easy to remember that anything above 10k is 5/111 so E becomes really easy as it defaults to the 3/152 under that now G is the only sort of confusing one


Here is what the scratch version looked like
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Rod Machado has a nice all inclusive diagram in a simple triangle. Won't reproduce it here since it may be copyrighted but sure you can Google it
 
wrbix said:
Rod Machado has a nice all inclusive diagram in a simple triangle.
Click to expand...

I thinks Bryan's is far more intuitive actually. That triangle is kind of a mess.

Personally I just stay out of the clouds with room to spare when VFR...most everything else is just textbook exercises because, as someone else mentioned, there's no way to truly gauge distance accurately and, in some cases, optical illusions screw with our perspective.

I've learned flying IFR that this is especially true for me when I'm above the clouds in a haze layer or with another layer of high clouds above. Sometimes it looks like I'm almost skimming the tops of the lower clouds...only to discover that they were a good 2,000' below when I descend into my destination.
 
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Think binary 512. Old computer guys will know what I am talking about.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk
 
Flying mostly under IFR, I've actually forgotten a lot of the rules for VFR cloud clearance. I just don't need them. For the rare occasions when I do need them, the kneeboard suggestion mentioned above gets the job done.. I use a kneeboard when flying IFR, so I just use one that has the VFR rules, light guns, and other reminders.
 
This helped me:

All you really have to remember is two airplane types: C-152 for below 10k and F-111 above 10k.

C-152: 1 thousand above, 500 below, 2000 away (three miles vis)
F-111: F (five miles vis) 1 thousand above, 1000 below, 1 mile away (even for class g)

Just remember F-111 is a higher flying plane so use it for above 10 thousand feet.

Now you just need to memorize class g under 10 thousand feet.
 
timwinters said:
... there's no way to truly gauge distance accurately and, in some cases, optical illusions screw with our perspective.

I've learned flying IFR that this is especially true for me when I'm above the clouds in a haze layer or with another layer of high clouds above. Sometimes it looks like I'm almost skimming the tops of the lower clouds...only to discover that they were a good 2,000' below when I descend into my destination.
Click to expand...
BTDT. The rules, though probably necessary, cannot be followed even approximately. I know I am too close when my wingtip is in the cloud a little bit or I can't see the ground looking straight ahead but that is about it. Since most of the time I am getting radar services anyway I don't lose a lot of sleep over it.
 
Shawn said:
Large tape measure.

or...

Three Cessna 152's

3/152

Three Miles Visibility
1000' Above
500' Below
2000' Horizontal

Three is the first number in that group, that tells me what I need ahead of me off my nose (visibility)

1000' is the higher number...it is above 500', which is the lower number and below.

2 represents 2000' is at the tail of the group...I need 2000' between me and the cloud behind me (or side of me).
Click to expand...

This. It's just something you have to memorize.
 
From what I've seen and experienced, a great number of VFR pilots don't follow the rules. There have been so many times where I'm on an IFR plan skimming the top of the clouds then get told something like there is VFR traffic below me at 500 feet, 10 o'clock and converging. You do the math. :rolleyes:
 
korben88 said:
I am struggling with remembering what the distances are for clouds. Do you guys have any tips?
Click to expand...

yup...I was taught Cessna 152...1000-over, 500-under and 2000-ft horizontal. I'm a fair weather pilot and use those cloud minimums no matter where I'm flying.
 
I think most people just stay clear of clouds with some room to spare vs. thinking about specific distances. What you do is up to you, but you can't really judge the distances anyway.

I just file IFR though. No worries.

In training it was 3152 and 5111 a memorization tools.
 
timwinters said:
I thinks Bryan's is far more intuitive actually. That triangle is kind of a mess.

Personally I just stay out of the clouds with room to spare when VFR...most everything else is just textbook exercises because, as someone else mentioned, there's no way to truly gauge distance accurately and, in some cases, optical illusions screw with our perspective.

I've learned flying IFR that this is especially true for me when I'm above the clouds in a haze layer or with another layer of high clouds above. Sometimes it looks like I'm almost skimming the tops of the lower clouds...only to discover that they were a good 2,000' below when I descend into my destination.
Click to expand...

The diagrams are fine passing the test, but for practical flying you really need to just know if, and as I mentioned the bust way to "know it" is to understand the logic. The two that most effect me are class B and >10k.

It's very typical to have those summer days with scattered cumulus with occasional build-ups. It's often operationally beneficial to get a bravo clearance and pick my way above the scattered layer because I can fly right below, right next to, and just above a cloud and remain legal. It also means making smaller deviations around build-up, making me and the controller happy.

At 10k outside of class B, you need a lot of room to get above a scattered cloud layer. My general rule is that if I'm not 1000 feet above a cloud layer by the time I get to 10k, I'm not ever going to try to climb VFR any higher.
 
I think of them in a practical sense:

Three 152s except:
-above 10,000 because planes flying up there are faster and need more time to see each other so it is 5 and 1s.
-Class B because we are all talking to ATC so we just need to be clear of clouds
-G below 1,200 during the day is 1 and clear so pilot Joe in his cub can still do touch-and-goes in the pattern.
-3 miles all around except above 10 and G(day)

Kinda confusing but it worked for me.
 
rk911 said:
yup...I was taught Cessna 152...1000-over, 500-under and 2000-ft horizontal. I'm a fair weather pilot and use those cloud minimums no matter where I'm flying.
Click to expand...
Fair weather pilot. That describes me well. I'm stealing that.
 
Write it down a bunch of times, till it sticks. Then forget about it. It doesn't matter much, once you're airborne; otherwise, it's just a "stump the dummy" question for a forum or hangar flying session.
 
Brad Z said:
Once you learn the standard VFR minimums (500 below, 1000 feet above, 2,000 lateral, and 3 miles viz), all you need to do is learn the logical exceptions:

1) clear of clouds in class B because you're on a clearance operating under positive separation in class B (i.e you don't have to worry about a plane jumping out from a cloud at you).

2) higher cloud clearances above 10k due to no speed restrictions. 1,000 above and below, 1 mile laterally, 5 miles viz.

3) Daytime class G. This is VFR down in the weeds for cropdusters, pattern flyers and the like. 1 mile of visibility and clear of clouds.
Click to expand...

This, combined with the 3/152 mentioned above are how I learned it. The Class G is the one that usually would get me, because it really seemed silly to me, anyways. My DPE agreed ... he kept saying it's how you end up legally dead. You may have been legal, but still a good way to get killed.
 
Brad Z said:
Once you learn the standard VFR minimums ... all you need to do is learn the logical exceptions:
Click to expand...

^^THAT^^

I did exactly that and it helped me. Just learn the standards and exceptions. Much easier than memorizing for each airspace.

Btw, when the DPE on a checkride asks you something like "Are you complying with cloud separation rules? Are we really 2000ft laterally from that cloud?" Just say "yes". Remember, he has NO WAY of measuring it and proving you wrong. :lol:
 
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