How difficult/competitive is it to get a fighter slot in the Marine corps?

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Jubjub86

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Jubjub86
I’m nearing college and exploring my options. Just wondering who gets fighter slots and how common it is.
 
Yep. I’ve wanted to be a pilot my whole life but now I am exploring the military route. I’m just exploring my options and this is the best way I can find to get solid information about people who know what they are talking about.
 
Jubjub86 said:
I’m nearing college and exploring my options. Just wondering who gets fighter slots and how common it is.
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Always a moving target my friend. Since you are done with college, or effectively will be (i.e. ineligible for USNA or NROTC due to credit hours), Marine OCS would be your option. Historically, USNA and NROTC fill >50% of the openings, with OCS operating as a relief valve as needed......in other words, when pilots are needed, OCS gets more of the love....when pilots aren't, it becomes more competitive. I don't think anyone other than a current Marine officer recruiter could tell you the real answer to your question. Anecdotally, if you did well in college (think 3.0+), especially in a technical major (though that is NOT required), did well on the ASTB, and had a generally strong application (think team activities/community service/good Letters of Rec), you generally had a good shot when I was going through the application process (mine being on the USN side). Obviously you had to pass a standard Navy flight physical/be physically qualified as well. For the Marines, a solid PFT score would also factor into it heavily I imagine. Beyond that, it's timing and what the Corps needs at the time.

If you are serious about this, the road ahead is 1) talk to Marine OFFICER recruiter, 2) submit application to board with all that stuff, 3) get selected, 4) attend Marine OCS, 5) attend Marine TBS, 6) start flight school. Step 3 is where you generally get your "air contract", though I have heard of guys getting to OCS with something other than SNA (Student Naval Aviator) contract, and changing it based on needs of the Corps and performance.

Hope that helps. Purely out of curiosity, why Marines specifically, vs Navy?
 
Thank you that does definitely help. I am thinking about Marines because a lot of people that I admire were former Marines. I honestly don’t know much about the Navy. From what I know it seems much more competitive. When does the military “need pilots” precisely? To the average person it seems like they would always be needed.
 
Also I looked into the Air National Guard for awhile and it’s very competitive. Most of the people I talked to said you pretty much have to know someone to get a spot. So I figured active duty men might have a better chance. Correct me if I’m wrong.
 
Jubjub86 said:
Thank you that does definitely help. I am thinking about Marines because a lot of people that I admire were former Marines. I honestly don’t know much about the Navy. From what I know it seems much more competitive. When does the military “need pilots” precisely? To the average person it seems like they would always be needed.
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I think you are generally correct in the idea that we tend to need pilots consistently. The question really boils down to a more micro scale, as in what is needed for the particular board you might be applying to. Maybe the answer is 20 folks in May but only 5 in August (I have no idea when or at what frequency Marine OCS runs their boards....that is just a fictional example). If you are applying in that theoretical August board, and a bunch of other folks decide they want to apply too, it conceivably becomes more competitive than it was in May. There can be a wide variance of what is "competitive" at individual selection boards, but the general numbers/qualities I mentioned above tend to be reliable over time as a percentage solution. Might you get lucky with a 2.5 GPA in basket weaving and get an SNA slot? Absolutely....I know some folks who were that guy at the time. Might you be SOL with a 3.5 GPA in Aerospace Engineering and a 9/9/9 on your ASTB? Also possible. Not trying to insult your intelligence about how "competitiveness" works as a concept, but that is sort of the realistic application of it.

Personally, I don't really know if the Marines are more competitive or less competitive. There are less pilots in the USMC by far, and they make up a comparably smaller portion of the Marine officer population. The Navy has many more pilots, and our aviation community is also a bigger part of our overall force structure. That isn't to encourage you one way or another, but my simple person math would tend to conclude that USMC Air is marginally more competitive on a given day than it was for us on the USN side.....again totally subject to short term differences in service requirements for pilots (i.e. Marines could be really hurting whilst USN is good). That is a broad generalization and certainly not scientific data, just my take on it. I do absolutely agree that there are many fantastic aviators (and individuals) flying Marine aircraft, and their service offers a lot of things that the USN does not, if those things interest you.
 
Thank you, I also have a question about picking your aircraft. Does the military assign you a random aircraft based on their “needs” or do you have a say? Also I know most of the military is retiring the f/a 18 but are they being replaced by the super hornet?
 
Jubjub86 said:
Thank you, I also have a question about picking your aircraft. Does the military assign you a random aircraft based on their “needs” or do you have a say? Also I know most of the military is retiring the f/a 18 but are they being replaced by the super hornet?
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Can't speak for USAF folks, but for USN and USMC, it is a mix of needs, your performance in the early stages of flight school, and what you ask for. Mostly the first 2, taking into account #3 at times.

As for the F/A-18, I assume you are speaking of the Legacy A-D airframe, as the Super Hornet is also an F/A-18 (the E/F variants). Only US services to fly either are the USN and USMC (though they did not, and never will buy the E/F). The USN has phased the legacy Hornet out of all of our operational squadrons entirely, leaving only a few aircraft still flying in adversary roles and with the Blue Angels. Operationally, we have an all Super Hornet (E/F) fleet. The Marines will continue flying their legacy Hornets for a little while longer until the transition to F-35B/C is complete. But to answer your question, the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet will be flying for decades to come with the Navy, and the F/A-18A-D will be gone from the inventory in the next few years in both services.
 
Awesome! I currently have a 3.5 gpa and I’m getting my professional pilot degree. I am soon to get my CFI and am planning to rack up quite a few hours before I begin my career. As I look into military positions as fighter pilots many people tell me there are much more qualified people that want the position and make me feel like I am less qualified. So it’s refreshing to hear a real fighter pilots feedback!
 
Don't worry about what people think. We were all just dudes (and dudettes) at one point who thought flying was cool and set our sights on making it happen. Being persistent and keeping your eye on the goal would be my advice. I'm sure there were many people who would have (and did) tell me that it wasn't going to work out too. Don't worry about them.
 
Jubjub86 said:
Thank you, I also have a question about picking your aircraft. Does the military assign you a random aircraft based on their “needs” or do you have a say? Also I know most of the military is retiring the f/a 18 but are they being replaced by the super hornet?
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This is based on folks I know who are currently Naval flight officers.

In general, if you're #1 in your training class, you get to pick your plane. #2 generally does as well. However, if the service decides that they need a bunch of <insert plane> jockeys, then you get what they want. Then again, that's how all the services work all the time for every job; the needs of the service supersede the needs of the individual.

The reality is that nobody can tell you what will happen if you sign up. You may get exactly what you want or you may wind up doing a completely different job. The only way to find out is to sign up and go for it. If you want a pilot seat, just work your ass off every second of every day, make sure your boss knows what you want, and do everything you can to get into that seat. You'll never know unless you try. Best of luck to you.
 
I'll say needs of the service isn't always bad. I got told to go some places at times, and I ended up enjoying it. I asked for Prowlers coming out of flight school, and got Hornets. It is the community that shaped me professionally, and gave me all kinds of opportunities that I wouldn't have otherwise had. I asked for West Coast/Lemoore coming out of the Hornet FRS at Miramar. Got east coast, and cruised with 9 of the best dudes I will ever know, and we chat daily many years later. Just a few examples about how things just work out and the bottom line is that you will enjoy where you are sent if you have a good attitude, and take a few minutes every now and then to realize you are getting a chance to do something very unique and cool.
 
35 AoA said:
I'll say needs of the service isn't always bad. ... you will enjoy where you are sent if you have a good attitude, and take a few minutes every now and then to realize you are getting a chance to do something very unique and cool.
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I'm an Air Force brat (Dad was a lifer) and that was how my parents approached service life. We got to go some really great places and it was a good life.
 
I don’t know about the other services, but the AF is about 2000 pilots short. It seems like if you’re medically qualified and you can learn the flying part, you could have a job as long as you want it.
 
I wish I had some good advice or suggestions for you jubjub. I have no military experience except for being raised a Coast Guard bratt
but I sympathize with your questions

so it sounds like you are already in undergraduate school. I'm guessing freshman or sophomore year....or is it a 2 year program?
Any chance for ROTC? I don't know if that would help much or not, but perhaps....

So my story...always wanted to fly, but had zero exposure. Had never been in a small plane and had never known a pilot. At some point early in my college (engineering) I found a night school continuing ed thing at the school that was private pilot ground school. I took it just for grins.....and I had done a whole lot of reading about flying.

Later on as I neared finishing my degree (mechanical engineering) I spoke to Navy recruiter.
I really wanted to fly helicopters honestly, and for some reason had an affinity for the Coast Guard's mission, with Navy as sort of a second choice.
Anyway, this Navy recruiter who was set up behind a card table in the Engineering building at my school 200 miles inland, wore the gold wings.
I had reservations, and lots of questions just like you, that I knew he couldn't really answer.
  • Could I get a flying slot?
  • Could I hack training and get through?
  • Would I even be able to handle flight without getting airsick?
  • Would they find some silly thing in medical that would disqualify me, such as one leg being 1/4 inch shorter than the other?
  • and prob my biggest concern...would I sign up for a 6 year hitch (or whatever) and then get put into a non-flying job or end up in some college talking to a snot nose kid like this guy was talking to me....?
Anyway, this was in the late 80's and the military was doing some big down sizing. I figured that any slots in flight school that did come open would probably go to academy guys. That was only an assumption in my part....but that, along with a few other things led me to decide to not pursue it.

Well all these years later, every time I see a helicopter fly over I wonder.....

Since then
I had a mild medical thing that came up I think in my late 20's or early 30's that made me jump through some hoops with the FAA...and that I suppose would have likely grounded me in the military....
Also, over the years I've known a few folks that joined the military with a very clear path in site, but they got put into very different jobs.... one guy joined the marines wanting to be a sniper ended up being a crew chief on harriers...and another guy went through civil engineering & NROTC wanting to get into explosives, or demolition, or something... but ended up taking care of reactors on submarines

Still, I wonder what might have been.... and a BIG part of me regrets not trying.
 
Every branch it’s all about timing. Not just to get accepted but to get your aircraft choice as well.

Friend of mine went Naval Academy and was dead set on being a fighter pilot. Specifically wanted F-18s. Well he got flight school but didn’t get fighters. Think he said he was number 5 in his class and only top 3 got jets. So he got something even better, helos! :D Flew SH-60s, SH-3s and got out as a T-34 IP. I could tell it was kind of a let down for him but like I said, all about timing. Not everyone 1) has what it takes to fly fighters and 2) is lucky enough to hit the pipeline when fighters are offered.

What’s funny is some of the lengths I’ve read about guys getting fighters. Heard of guys getting inside gauge on future selection aircraft and only getting transports or helos. So they took emergency leave to skip aircraft selection day until the next class. Then they were fortunate enough to get fighters in the follow on class. Think those tactics are no longer common though and the students have no idea what’s coming for selection day.
 
The thing to remember about the Marines is that they have 35 squadrons (not counting Reserve and training) that fly Helicopters, V-22, and the C-130 while only 18 fly the F-18, F-35, and AV-8. Additionally those 35 non-fighter squadron fly 2 pilots per aircraft and the fighter squadrons are all single pilot. That being said once you complete Primary the Marines do exactly what the Navy does and award aircraft (Jets, Helicopters, Multi-engine) assignment based on class standing. The only hitch for jets is that you must have jets scores provided enough jet slots are being offered.
 
Look at the Army Warrant Officer Pilot program - get to fly some real cool stuff. As one bloke put it to me once as I asked him why... "not as boring a job as the jet jockies our s___t is terrestrial where all the fun is, plus you get to wear one of these, chicks dig em :)



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Ventucky Red said:
Look at the Army Warrant Officer Pilot program - get to fly some real cool stuff. As one bloke put it to me once as I asked him why... "not as boring a job as the jet jockies our s___t is terrestrial where all the fun is, plus you get to wear one of these, chicks dig em :)



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Warrants just say that when they don’t want to admit they didn’t get accepted into other services. :eek: Knew plenty of guys who did an inter service transfer to fly jets. Only advantages that WOFT provides is that warrants slip under the radar and don’t have nearly as much BS as RLOs. Also, unlike other services, if you play your cards right, you can do 20 years and stay in an operational flying position. The later might not even be desirable depending on the individual.

Of course the OP wouldn’t necessarily be restricted to helos either. They can get fixed wing assigned out of flight school now. He could be flying race track patterns in a King Air for hours on end...that would be a blast! :(
 
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Holy cow! I just saw the large wall of text I just threw up. That's what a layover where you're quarantined to your hotel rooms will do.

tl;dr: You don't have to know someone to get into a Air National Guard unit. And Air Force UPT is a year long program with a lot of flying.

_________________________________________


(Former) Air Force guy here... not a fighter guy, but a heavy driver. Split my time between 10 year Active Duty and 16 in the National Guard. Four years spent as a primary flight instructor in the T-37.

@35 AoA had great stuff on the USN/USMC side. I just wanted to give you a bit about the AF way.

The first thing off the bat that I want to clear up is the very common misconception about needing to "know someone" to get a flying spot in the Guard. That is absolutely not true. During my 16 years in the ANG I sat on many a pilot hiring board and the vast majority of the people who we hired were "off the street" with no connection to the unit or anyone in it.

There are obviously some things that would work in an applicant's favor, such as:
  • Knowing someone/being a legacy (again, like I said above though, these were few and far between)
  • Being a local. The ANG much more so than the Air Force Reserves are very much a state-centric organization. If an applicant came in that was from our state, born and raised, that was bonus points. We hired out-of staters but asked their plans about moving to in-state. Also, I was in a Guard unit in a smaller state on the East Coast so there was some wiggle-room if the applicant was from a neighboring state close by.
  • Being in the unit. This one was probably the biggest "point multiplier." If there was an enlisted or officer who had been in the unit for years and decided they wanted to become a pilot, that generally put them higher than the others. They were a known quantity, knew the unit, knew the people. The Guard is pretty tight knit, so we were on a first name basis with most of the maintainers, intel folks, life support, etc. There were super bonus points if the applicant was an enlisted flier (loadmaster, boom operator) who wanted to come to the pilot side.
  • Having your ratings. Generally we would only interview people who had their college degree complete and at least a PPL. Bonus points if they showed up with a CPL or Instrument rating. Since we only held boards typically once a year, we would be a little loose with those requirements if the applicant was one class shy of the degree of they could show that they were almost done with the PPL.
  • Be a generally good person. Unlike an Active Duty unit where people will stay somewhere for 3-4 years then move on, when you are in a Guard unit, you're there for a while. We don't want to hire a turd that's going to stick around and make people's lives miserable for the next decade. We want someone who we will be able to deploy with and not want to strangle them in their sleep. Or in the jet.
So, that's a lot to say "if you are thinking about the Air National Guard, don't let the fact that you don't know anyone dissuade you." Find your local guard unit and give the squadron a call. Ask to talk to the pilot who is in charge of pilot hiring and tell them who you are and what you want to do. They'll give you all the details.

Next... pilot training. I'll switch gears and focus more on the Active Duty process since if you go to Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training (SUPT... or just UPT) from a ANG unit, you'll already know what plane you are going to fly and none of this really applies to you.

Air Force UPT is broken down into three phases. Creatively called Phase 1, 2, and 3.
  • Phase 1: Academics This phase is about a month long and is all done in the classroom. You'll get classes on aerodynamics, weather, physiology, aircraft systems, etc. There are tests and those tests will form part of your "Academic Average" that will go into your final score. The academics don't end there because there will be academic classes interspersed throughout the other phases when appropriate (i.e. Instrument academics when you reach that phase of training).
  • Phase 2: Primary Flight Training This is your first introduction to flight. Phase 2 lasts about 4 months long and is done in the T-6 Texan II. Phase 2 is further broken down into four other phases. Contact, Instrument, Formation, Navigation.
    • Contact is learning to fly using visual contact with the ground (that's the best explanation, but not really entirely true). This is where you'll learn to take off, fly visual patterns, land, do area maneuvers like stalls and slow flight, basic and advanced acrobatics. You'll solo after about 14 rides. There will be two check rides in the contact phase and after the first "mid-phase" check you'll be signed off to fly solo out the the practice area so you can practice your acro on your own. The contact phase ends in a "Final Contact check."
    • Instrument is exactly what it sounds like. This is where you learn all the instrument flying skills. You'll wear a "hood" (like foggles) and learn to fly in the IFR system, fly approaches, do basic instrument maneuvers, recover from unusual attitudes and even "instrument acro" (don't know if it's still in the syllabus but students used to be taught instrument aileron rolls and wingovers). This phase is closely tied with the navigation phase and you won't have your instrument check until you finish your nav rides.
    • Navigation is just an extension of the instrument phase. This is where you and your instructor will take a jet for a long weekend cross-country to get practice navigating away form the sterile Air Force Base environment and into the real world. You'll do instrument approaches and visual patterns at strange fields and learn the ins-and-outs of cross-country flight planning, etc. Also in the Nav phase is an introduction to low-level flights on designated low-level routes.
    • Formation. Most everybody's favorite because it's the coolest and most fun. This phase is where you learn to fly on the wing through various maneuvers in different positions. Fingertip (3' spacing) out to extended/offset trail where more aggressive maneuvering can be done. You'll also learn to lead a formation and wingman consideration. This phase ends with a formation solo where you'll go out and fly against another jet through all the maneuvers you learned. After the solo ride, there's also a formation check ride.
Phase 2 ends in what is called "track select". Everything you've done that I've listed above is graded. Every academic score, every single daily ride, all the check rides, and a subjective ranking form your flight commander is thrown into a computer and it spits out all the students ranked from first to last. This is what the track select is based on. The four tracks that are available to students are:
  • T-38 for fighter/bomber
  • T-1 for tanker/transport
  • C-12 for C-130s (done in Corpus Christie with the US Navy)
  • UH-1 for helicopters (done at Fort Rucker with the US Army)
Students will rank order their tracks and then based on their class ranking will be assigned a follow-on based on the aircraft available for their class. It changes every class, but typically for a class of 20 you'll have 6 T-38s, 10 T-1s, 3 C-12s and maybe one UH-1. The students ranked higher have a better chance of getting their top pick with the students ranked lower getting the leftovers.

After track select, students enter Phase 3, Advanced Flight Training. I can't speak at all about the C-12 or UH-1 tracks, but for the T-38s and T-1s, the flying is very similar to the Phase 1 flying (Contact, Instrument, Navigation and Formation) with the T-38 track focusing more on the contact and formation flying and the T-1s focusing more on the instrument and navigation phases.

After all is said and done, UPT takes just about a year to complete. At the end of Phase 3 is assignment night which mirrors the Phase 1 track select. You're performance throughout UPT is calculated and you are ranked among the other students in your track. Based on that (and the needs of the Air Force), you'll be assigned your MWS (Major Weapon System) aircraft, except for the few that may return to become IPs.

That's what the UPT system is like for the AD lieutenant starting out on an Air Force flying career.
 
Jubjub86 said:
this is the best way I can find to get solid information about people who know what they are talking about.
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You’re on the internet - everyone knows what they are talking about.
 
bflynn said:
I don’t know about the other services, but the AF is about 2000 pilots short. It seems like if you’re medically qualified and you can learn the flying part, you could have a job as long as you want it.
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This has been in the news a lot over the past couple years, and while true, I think the specifics are misunderstood and being misrepresented. All the services have been feeling a shortage of pilots, but what they are speaking to is at the experienced senior O-3 and junior O-4 levels. That is essentially the first time aviators have the opportunity to leave (~10 yrs active), and folks have been doing so in droves, enough to generate said crisis. This does not exactly equate to needing fresh student aviators. They need folks who are experienced flight leads and instructor pilots to man operational squadrons and assume mid level leadership positions. Obviously your brand new O-2/O-3 wingee is unable to fill any of those roles for many more years. That isn't to say that the shortage doesn't trickle down to some extent to new accessions, but that isn't the specific demographic where they are feeling pain at the moment. If that makes any sense
 
Thank you guys so much! This is all new information to me and I am very grateful for it. I am still deciding which route to go and y’all have put up some very good points. As for a AD pilot what does the typical day look like work wise when they are not on a deployment or cruise?
 
Also how long do y’all predict or think this military shortage is going to last considering this Covid-19 mess? Will it stay or is it to early to tell?
 
There is a lot of neat information on here. Personally to old to ever pursue but interesting none the less

Does someone who already has a pilots license fare better in any of these avenues??
 
Jubjub86 said:
Also how long do y’all predict or think this military shortage is going to last considering this Covid-19 mess? Will it stay or is it to early to tell?
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The airlines are going to take a while to recover from this pandemic. After 9-11 airlines saw a huge decrease in air travel and airlines were furloughing pilots left and right. Mid career military pilots will be burning some serious brain cells deciding to leave the service or stay to retirement. The decision would have been much easier to make a year ago but today, getting a pilot gig at a major or even minor airline is no where near the almost sure thing it used to be. As 35 AoA mentioned, the military is never really short of applicants for pilot training. The real problem is keeping trained pilots in the service when airlines are hiring. When the airlines stop hiring, the "shortage" goes away as Captains decide to stay in. The Air Force tends to throw bonuses at those pilots to convince them to stay in past their initial commitment for training.
 
benyflyguy said:
There is a lot of neat information on here. Personally to old to ever pursue but interesting none the less

Does someone who already has a pilots license fare better in any of these avenues??
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Well I’ll tell you in the Army they don’t care. Used to be their “preferred requirements” were PPL and an NCO with 5-8 years experience. Later on I believe in late 2000 they removed that along with the requirement of 20/20 vision.

PPL gives you a head start for the first few months (FAR, AIM, ATC, etc) but after that, it becomes a level playing field. As an IP I didn’t care either way. I could always find ways to push the PPL guys and most of the time, could train the non PPL students to meet curriculum standards.

Wash out rates will vary with service but I believe the Army’s is only like 10 %. I’m not sure if it’s true but I’ve heard of Navy / AF wash out rates anywhere from 30-50 %.
 
Also recommend you spend some time reading up on the forums that are somewhat specific to these topics:

Anal Naviation, er, Naval Aviation: airwarriors.com
USAF: baseops.net and airforceots.com

Probably every question you might ask, and several you wouldn't, have been asked and answered there.
 
If you want to fly, don't go the enlisted route. You can get a slot in OCS in the AirForce without ROTC. Air Force Reserves is an option too. Talk to the officer recruiter there. Recruiters are going to blow a lot of smoke and promise you the moon. DO NOT GO IN WITHOUT A GUARANTEED ASSIGNMENT! You will end up being a desk jockey and being miserable. Experience talking here! If you have your 4 year degree or close to finished then check the National Guard, Reserves and Full Time. If flying is your passion, you have great study skills and habits, then do your research and pick the one that is best for you. Oh yeah.... a Marine won't admit to it but they are part of the Navy. GO AIR FORCE!!!
 
There are many Marines that started out thinking they were going to be pilots. Don't try to become a Marine if you only want to fly. If that doesn't work out you just can't quit.
Flying in the Marine Corps is an additional duty. You will have to be an officer in the squadron performing leadership duties and fly when the schedule permits.
If all you want to do is fly, try the USAF. Keep in mind that fighter slots in all the services are prime and mostly going to Academy grads. USMC needs helo pilots and USAF needs transport pilots.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
 
George Carter said:
Oh yeah.... a Marine won't admit to it but they are part of the Navy. GO AIR FORCE!!!
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This is very true when it comes to fixed wing aviation. The Marines have "green" dollars and "blue" dollars. The blue dollars are from the Navy budget and pay for things that are going out on the big carriers. Sometimes fixed wing has money to fly and sometimes rotary wing has money to fly. The difference between green and blue dollars.
 
cgrab said:
If all you want to do is fly, try the USAF. Keep in mind that fighter slots in all the services are prime and mostly going to Academy grads. USMC needs helo pilots and USAF needs transport pilots.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
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Two things:

1) Same goes for the Air Force. No service has any position where "all you do is fly". Even Army WO have additional duties. Though the fleet health is better in the AF, so I suppose from that perspective you have a better chance of flying more often.

2) Once you starting pilot training no one cares what your commissioning source was. Track select is based entirely off needs of the service and the student's class ranking. The percentage of fighter pilots who are Academy grads is the same percentage of transport pilots who are Academy grads.
 
Schokie said:
2) Once you starting pilot training no one cares what your commissioning source was. Track select is based entirely off needs of the service and the student's class ranking. The percentage of fighter pilots who are Academy grads is the same percentage of transport pilots who are Academy grads.
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My experience over my career as well. The only time I've seen it becomes as factor really is making flag. Flags pick flags and 85% of them came out of the trade schools and there is without a doubt a bias there that has nothing to do with what kind of leader you are.
 
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Jubjub86 said:
Thank you that does definitely help. I am thinking about Marines because a lot of people that I admire were former Marines. I honestly don’t know much about the Navy. From what I know it seems much more competitive. When does the military “need pilots” precisely? To the average person it seems like they would always be needed.
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The only good Marine is a submarine.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
EvilEagle said:
Being an academy grad has ZERO to do with what airplane you fly in the USAF.
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Heck, I knew a West Pointer who didn’t even have the class ranking to even get into flight school. Some people are just destined to be infantry officers. :D
 
Velocity173 said:
Heck, I knew a West Pointer who didn’t even have the class ranking to even get into flight school. Some people are just destined to be infantry officers. :D
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My class leader in VT-10 was the third from the bottom at the Academy. He went off as a black shoe on the Vinson for a tour, did well and then got aviation re-designation and went on to a career as an F-14 RIO.
 
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