Hooray! The helicopter is ok!

[RotaryWingBob]

After we grounded the R22 because of a possible overspeed when one my partners was practicing an auto, we were waiting with baited breath to see what the inspection would show.

It was completed today, and it looks like we dodged the bullet because they couldn't find anything wrong!

So as soon as these winds die down, that foop-foop-foop you hear overhead is gonna be me

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Good news, Bob! Glad everything went well and was checked to you and the rest of the member's satisfaction.

 

[fgcason]

Good situation. Even though it cost you some $$ for a pointless check, you can now get in and have confidence that it's not going to throw a blade or something equally horrifying.

I think you have a good group of partners from the sound of it. Honest enough to admit to everyone that they made a mistake even though it might never be found out. He could have easily walked off and not said a thing and no one would have been the wiser especially considering that the inspection has now revealed nothing wrong.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

After we grounded the R22 because of a possible overspeed when one my partners was practicing an auto, we were waiting with baited breath to see what the inspection would show.

It was completed today, and it looks like we dodged the bullet because they couldn't find anything wrong!

So as soon as these winds die down, that foop-foop-foop you hear overhead is gonna be me

That's cool.
Speaking of winds/gusts & choppers, how much have you observed the small choppers handling successfully ?

 

[EdFred]

Good News: Helicopter fixed.

Bad News: It's still a helicopter.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

That's cool.
Speaking of winds/gusts & choppers, how much have you observed the small choppers handling successfully ?

It's an issue, Dave.

Turbulence aloft is a concern because of the possibilty of getting into a low G situation, which is dangerous, particularly in Robinsons (the only thing which keeps the rotor and fusilage in alignment is gravity, so fast rolls, tail strikes and mast bumps are possible in low G conditions.

It also becomes a real struggle in a hover because of the strong tendency of helos to weathercock.

Unless pilots have more than 200 hours in helicopters and more than 50 in Robinsons, they are subject to the limitions of SFAR 73, which can be found at the back of part 61 in the FARS, and which makes interesting reading.

I've flown the R22 in gusts up to around 20 kt which is not a lot of fun, particularly solo. Beyond that, especially with a quartering, there may not be sufficient tail rotor authority to hold your heading in a hover or taxi.

AHH, If only that unknown rich uncle would leave me a Bell 407 (or even a Jet Ranger)!

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

It's an issue, Dave.

Turbulence aloft is a concern because of the possibilty of getting into a low G situation, which is dangerous, particularly in Robinsons (the only thing which keeps the rotor and fusilage in alignment is gravity, so fast rolls, tail strikes and mast bumps are possible in low G conditions.

It also becomes a real struggle in a hover because of the strong tendency of helos to weathercock.

Unless pilots have more than 200 hours in helicopters and more than 50 in Robinsons, they are subject to the limitions of SFAR 73, which can be found at the back of part 61 in the FARS, and which makes interesting reading.

I've flown the R22 in gusts up to around 20 kt which is not a lot of fun, particularly solo. Beyond that, especially with a quartering, there may not be sufficient tail rotor authority to hold your heading in a hover or taxi.

AHH, If only that unknown rich uncle would leave me a Bell 407 (or even a Jet Ranger)!

Very interesting, thank you.

Our planes are tied down just north of Classic Helicopter at KBFI Seattle, so it's a real treat to routinely watch them coming & going in R22s and 44s. Also buzzing with them right overhead are the 6-8 seat news choppers and some NOTARs and Augustas, all of which are some fine, fine aeromachines whether small or bigger. I rarely see any of them out in much wind, but it happens.

I suppose you've seen the hairy footage of the Coast Guard bird getting winched down onto a pitching frigate ?

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Good situation. Even though it cost you some $$ for a pointless check, you can now get in and have confidence that it's not going to throw a blade or something equally horrifying.

I think you have a good group of partners from the sound of it. Honest enough to admit to everyone that they made a mistake even though it might never be found out. He could have easily walked off and not said a thing and no one would have been the wiser especially considering that the inspection has now revealed nothing wrong.

You are quite right, Frank. I think it boils down to the fact as you get older, death by aircraft seems like a lousy idea. My partners in this bird are great!

Very interesting, thank you.

Our planes are tied down just north of Classic Helicopter at KBFI Seattle, so it's a real treat to routinely watch them coming & going in R22s and 44s. Also buzzing with them right overhead are the 6-8 seat news choppers and some NOTARs and Augustas, all of which are some fine, fine aeromachines whether small or bigger. I rarely see any of them out in much wind, but it happens.

I suppose you've seen the hairy footage of the Coast Guard bird getting winched down onto a pitching frigate ?

You're welcome. One of my partners, who is also a RH CFI, crashed an Enstrom in high winds back in the 70's. I've inherited some of his caution...

Sorry, I missed the CG footage.

As an aside, Dave, I want to thank you for your contributions to the discussions on this board!

 

[AdamZ]

Hear our collective Sigh Bob!!!Glad things worked out. You know you did the right thing. Hate to see you have anymore grief especially after the SB on the rotors.

 

[Anthony]

Hear our collective Sigh Bob!!!

Ha! Good one Adam. "Collective" Sigh. Bwahahahahaha.

Now if I could only think of something for cyclic.

 

[Richard]

Ha! Good one Adam. "Collective" Sigh. Bwahahahahaha.

Now if I could only think of something for cyclic.

Let's all hope this rotor problem is not cyclic in nature.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Hear our collective Sigh Bob!!!Glad things worked out. You know you did the right thing. Hate to see you have anymore grief especially after the SB on the rotors.

Bad, bad Adam. See what you made Anthony say? Tsk, tsk

Ha! Good one Adam. "Collective" Sigh. Bwahahahahaha.

Now if I could only think of something for cyclic.

Anthony, Anthony, you'll have us SKIDding down the SLICK slopes with that kind of stuff...

 

[gkainz]

Now if I could only think of something for cyclic.

Is that anything like the Heimlich?

 

[astanley]

It's an issue, Dave.

Turbulence aloft is a concern because of the possibilty of getting into a low G situation, which is dangerous, particularly in Robinsons (the only thing which keeps the rotor and fusilage in alignment is gravity, so fast rolls, tail strikes and mast bumps are possible in low G conditions.

It also becomes a real struggle in a hover because of the strong tendency of helos to weathercock.

Unless pilots have more than 200 hours in helicopters and more than 50 in Robinsons, they are subject to the limitions of SFAR 73, which can be found at the back of part 61 in the FARS, and which makes interesting reading.

I've flown the R22 in gusts up to around 20 kt which is not a lot of fun, particularly solo. Beyond that, especially with a quartering, there may not be sufficient tail rotor authority to hold your heading in a hover or taxi.

AHH, If only that unknown rich uncle would leave me a Bell 407 (or even a Jet Ranger)!

I flew a lesson, my 3rd actually, in 15G24kt winds. This was a 300CB, however (Schweitzer's rule, Robbies drool!)

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I flew a lesson, my 3rd actually, in 15G24kt winds. This was a 300CB, however (Schweitzer's rule, Robbies drool!)

Cheers,

-Andrew

That sounds like good performance !

I've always wondered about the performance and limitation details between the entry level choppers like the Shweitzer, R22 (ie. the rotor strike problem) and Exec 162 with FADEC. Can anybody elaborate some on this a little bit ?

 

[RotaryWingBob]

That sounds like good performance !

I've always wondered about the performance and limitation details between the entry level choppers like the Shweitzer, R22 (ie. the rotor strike problem) and Exec 162 with FADEC. Can anybody elaborate some on this a little bit ?

Actually the gust limits in Robinsons are for low hour pilots only (SFAR 73).

All helicopters suffer from pretty much the same classes of limitations, Dave. For example, Vne is generally governed by the airspeed when retreating blade stall will start to rear its ugly head (which is mostly a function of rotor tip speed). Generally low G maneuvers are a bad idea in any helicopter (but especially Robinsons, because they want to roll so quickly). All helicopters suffer from settling with power (vortex ring state) under identical conditions (airspeed 10 kt or less and power [for turbines] 20% or more and sink rate above 300 fpm).

Rotor design affects CG limitations among other things -- semirigid rotor systems are more finicky (sp?) about CG then fully articulated and rigid rotor systems.

Beyond that weight is a factor, just like a 152 will get blown around in conditions that a King Air won't even notice.

If you are looking for good bedside reading, W.J. Wagtendonk's book "Principles of Helicopter Flight" (published by ASA) really gets into a lot of this stuff.

Oh yeah, even though I weigh in at 200, that little dinky R22 was giving me a 1,000 fpm climb rate this morning in all that nice cold air! (Of course, I did get 1,600 fpm by myself in the Cherokee later on this afternoon)...

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Beyond that weight is a factor, just like a 152 will get blown around in conditions that a King Air won't even notice.

On the other hand, a few weeks ago the evening charter pilots could be heard on climbout in their Beavers and Caravans, "Ugh... This isn't fun..." as heard by us on tower freq. in our mighty C150, while swirling around in the pattern with 1500 MSL reports of 53 Kt. It was less wind on the surface though.


So which chopper is the "best" value for lower costs/entry level and expected common flights into gusty conditions ?

 

[RotaryWingBob]

On the other hand, a few weeks ago the evening charter pilots could be heard on climbout in their Beavers and Caravans, "Ugh... This isn't fun..." as heard by us on tower freq. in our mighty C150, while swirling around in the pattern with 1500 MSL reports of 53 Kt. It was less wind on the surface though.


So which chopper is the "best" value for lower costs/entry level and expected common flights into gusty conditions ?

One that I can't afford, Dave! If I could, it would be a Bell 206x...

Actually, it looks like I'm going to sell 2/3 of the Cherokee, so I'm on the lookout for partners in an R44...