Honda HA 420 hydroplanes off runway @ KDYB

They walked away....so this is what?....a good landing?
 
AKiss20 said:
Off topic but man every news site, but especially small, local ones, have so many scummy ads at the bottom it’s insane. 3 paragraphs of text and then an infinite series of ads with random, often gross, pictures to try and get clicks. </rant>
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So don’t look at them. Just read the 3 paragraphs and move on. Print newspapers have ads. You don’t gotta buy nothing. But you usually have to buy the paper. Here you got the article for free. Reporters like to get paid for their work. The money comes from selling advertising.
 
luvflyin said:
So don’t look at them. Just read the 3 paragraphs and move on. Print newspapers have ads. You don’t gotta buy nothing. But you usually have to buy the paper. Here you got the article for free. Reporters like to get paid for their work. The money comes from selling advertising.
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Not necessarily the site referenced, but I see content on some sites where the article is split into a number of chunks which are only a few sentences. Those chunks are separated by blocks of ads. Reading the articles sometimes consists to trying to figure out what is part of the article and what is an ad.
 
donjohnston said:
Not necessarily the site referenced, but I see content on some sites where the article is split into a number of chunks which are only a few sentences. Those chunks are separated by blocks of ads. Reading the articles sometimes consists to trying to figure out what is part of the article and what is an ad.
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I’ve seen those types, and yeah it’s kinda annoying. But at the end of the day I don’t begrudge them. I’m getting this for free. What’s that old saying? Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.
 
A good landing is one that you walk away from.
A perfect landing is one that you can use the plane again!
 
Doc Holliday said:
Go do a little research on Honda Jet brakes, and also do a bit of research on anti skid while you're at it.
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I quite shockingly know quite a bit about that. I mean that under many conditions, hydroplaning will occur regardless of whether the wheels are locked or not, or whether there is an anti-skid system or not. I've experienced it. A brake issue (locked brake, for example) certainly makes things bad, but there's not yet an indication that was the problem. If so, true hydroplaning may not have been the reason they went off.
(I also know how heavy the GHAE HF120 engine is; two guys can pick one up, and I was one of those guys.)
 
3393RP said:
I would imagine an issue with the HA-420 braking system that was addressed five years ago is unrelated to this event.
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I would certainly hope so but you never know. Posted that link as a reference to what others were noting about brake history on the Honda jets ...
 
We used to manage a Hondajet. One of the pilots assigned to it referred to it as “the resume killer”. :)
 
donjohnston said:
Not necessarily the site referenced, but I see content on some sites where the article is split into a number of chunks which are only a few sentences. Those chunks are separated by blocks of ads. Reading the articles sometimes consists to trying to figure out what is part of the article and what is an ad.
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The Brave browser (built around ad blocking) won't take care of all the ads at the bottom, but it will usually ax all the stuff in the middle.
 
luvflyin said:
I’ve seen those types, and yeah it’s kinda annoying. But at the end of the day I don’t begrudge them. I’m getting this for free. What’s that old saying? Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.
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I have no problem with ads. Lots of sites have them. But when you make it so reading a story turns into a game of Find Waldo, I'm out.
 
Dave Theisen said:
We used to manage a Hondajet. One of the pilots assigned to it referred to it as “the resume killer”. :)
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Interesting. Tom Cruise has one, I believe, but only has a SIC type rating for some reason.
My boss called it a "starter jet".
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Interesting. Tom Cruise has one, I believe, but only has a SIC type rating for some reason.
My boss called it a "starter jet".
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The reason is probably that he has another job. I think keeping a left seat rating for that current is probably a full time job.
 
Hydroplaning is directly related to tire pressure, doesn't matter the weight or size of the vehicle. The higher the tire pressure, the more resistant to hydroplaning, there's even a formula for it: (sq rt of the tire pressure) x 9 = hydroplaning MPH.

So my question is, does Honda specify a lower-than-normal tire pressure? Or do their operators have some group tendency to run them underinflated?
 
MFE said:
Hydroplaning is directly related to tire pressure, doesn't matter the weight or size of the vehicle. The higher the tire pressure, the more resistant to hydroplaning, there's even a formula for it: (sq rt of the tire pressure) x 9 = hydroplaning MPH.


So my question is, does Honda specify a lower-than-normal tire pressure? Or do their operators have some group tendency to run them underinflated?
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I can’t answer the tire pressure question, but most of the Hondajet incidents have been due to poor crosswind techniques and the early model brake issues and had nothing to do with hydroplaning.
 
Stan Bergey said:
The Brave browser (built around ad blocking) won't take care of all the ads at the bottom, but it will usually ax all the stuff in the middle.
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I've been amazed by the experience of blocking all scripts on websites I don't trust.

Random videos playing without my input? Disable scripts. If the website then crashes, they clearly didn't want my traffic.
 
AKiss20 said:
Off topic but man every news site, but especially small, local ones, have so many scummy ads at the bottom it’s insane. 3 paragraphs of text and then an infinite series of ads with random, often gross, pictures to try and get clicks. </rant>
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Local news is a dying industry. Akin to selling horseshoes in 1920. They'll do anything for one last gasp of revenue.
 
Obviously a few folks see this a bit differently. From the article:

In a YouTube posted by HondaJet Owners & Pilots Association this week, the nonprofit's executive director points to the recent rise in incidents or accidents involving HondaJet.

"There have been eight in the last 12 months," Julie Hughes said in the video, noting the association is collaborating with HondaJet and Flight Safety International on the issue.
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But, but, but ...

"We do not see a pattern," Shahidi said of his organization, which aims to identify aviation safety issues on a global level.
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Daleandee said:
Obviously a few folks see this a bit differently. From the article:



But, but, but ...
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I seem to find ten, since 2018 and including the latest, in the NTSB database. At least a few were possibly caused by pilot and/or ground handling crew. One listed brake failure, after maintenance (tire change.) Doesn't seem to be a pattern.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I seem to find ten, since 2018 and including the latest, in the NTSB database. At least a few were possibly caused by pilot and/or ground handling crew. One listed brake failure, after maintenance (tire change.) Doesn't seem to be a pattern.
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"There have been eight in the last 12 months," Julie Hughes said in the video ...

Don't know who's correct but if this is true it appears there may be a pattern. :dunno:
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Use the NTSB CAROL system; it's easy, and you'll have all of the info from the source.
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From *A* source. A runway excursion does not rise to the level of an NTSB-reportable incident until the plane gets damaged or someone gets injured, so they won't have all of these incidents. The entities most likely to have all the data are Honda and HOPA, and there may be some they don't even know about.

Rich Holt said:
Yeah...it's always pilot error of some variety. At least that is what I gleaned from my AV Safety School HFacs class.
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Sadly, the NTSB always seems to stop two steps short of the real cause. It's easy to say it was pilot error, but no pilot ever shows up to the airport thinking "I don't care if I go off the runway today" (or "I don't care if I die today"). Studying the human factors in more detail is the way to get to the true cause of the accident. WHY did the pilot lose control? WHY did the brakes fail? WHY was the maintenance deferred or done incorrectly? WHY did the pilot do an inadequate preflight?

Only then do you find out things like the owner is a cheapskate and said "We'll save the brake job for annual." Or the owner/pax were really impatient to get somewhere for an important meeting and hurried the pilot through their preflight (or didn't notify them of the trip with even enough time to look at the weather and do an adequate preflight). Or the pilot was fatigued due to the owner running them like crazy or a fight with his wife the night before or playing basketball with his kids yesterday or any number of reasons. Or who knows what else... There is ALWAYS more to the story than "that guy's just a crappy pilot."
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Sadly, the NTSB always seems to stop two steps short of the real cause. It's easy to say it was pilot error, but no pilot ever shows up to the airport thinking "I don't care if I go off the runway today" (or "I don't care if I die today"). Studying the human factors in more detail is the way to get to the true cause of the accident. WHY did the pilot lose control? WHY did the brakes fail? WHY was the maintenance deferred or done incorrectly? WHY did the pilot do an inadequate preflight?
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Don’t forget WHY did the pilots (plural in a lot of airplanes) choose to land with 1000-2000 feet of slippery runway left in a jet? That one happens WAY more than it should, IMO.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Don’t forget WHY did the pilots (plural in a lot of airplanes) choose to land with 1000-2000 feet of slippery runway left in a jet? That one happens WAY more than it should, IMO.
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Yep. Sometimes it's a training program or GOM or even just a culture that discourages go-arounds for some reason.

FWIW, I am a big fan of the CitationJet Pilots Association's Safe To Land method. It's safer than both the GA guessing game and the airline 1000/500 stable gates. Some good commentary on the human factors involved here.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yep. Sometimes it's a training program or GOM or even just a culture that discourages go-arounds for some reason.

FWIW, I am a big fan of the CitationJet Pilots Association's Safe To Land method. It's safer than both the GA guessing game and the airline 1000/500 stable gates. Some good commentary on the human factors involved here.
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Or it’s just the fact that the pilots have no idea how much runway has gone by.
 
Rich Holt said:
Yeah...it's always pilot error of some variety. At least that is what I gleaned from my AV Safety School HFacs class.
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In safety in general, about 80 - 85% of all mishaps are caused by the person or persons. About 15% but unsafe conditions (design, etc), and about 1% acts of God (no way to have prevented).
 
MauleSkinner said:
Or it’s just the fact that the pilots have no idea how much runway has gone by.
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Yeah, there's surely some of that too. That's why it's good to familiarize oneself with the airport layout when briefing the approach and landing to pick an abort point for the landing. When doing that crew briefing, I usually do it like "If we're not on the ground by the first taxiway past the crossing runway we're going around" as opposed to using a taxiway identifier.
 
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