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Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by FlyingMonkey, Oct 19, 2020.
Ditto the Mooney baggage door, locked before flight.
Always lock the door!!
Thanks for sharing the video, we can always learn from each other.. on one of my flights I had not closed the Cirrus door hard enough and another plane in there run up area advised that the door was open.. I feel like I returned the favor a few months later when an Archer taxied by and the door was flapping lol
RE: click bait
"Baggage door opens in flight!"
"Flight goes wrong!"
one is factual and tells the audience what they're about to watch, the other leaves something up to the unknown, like maybe they crashed!.. in a desire to attract attention
^not that there's anything wrong with that, and in a world where views and traffic are everything to the YouTube algorithms I can understand that
But there's a difference..
Right on. And a 172 has two doors to worry about! Twice the complexity - door wise, anyway. Twice the danger.
No, @FlyingMonkey, you should heed @Larry Vrooman’s advice. Come out east and sell me that beautiful Cherokee Six!
Better yet, keep making entertaining videos showing you and your family enjoying flying. As an aircraft owner, dad and husband I enjoy them.
Whew! Thank goodness you qualified your statement with “apologies in advance,” Larry. Otherwise one may have mistaken the assessment as arrogant, condescending d-baggery.
Haha yeah, like when someone says, “No disrespect, but.... [insert disrespectful statement here].”
Having watched both videos, I didn’t come to this conclusion nor is a Cherokee Six a problem for the pilot. The only criticism you can levy in the Sedona door issue was him not insisting that his passenger leave the door alone while he went back to land.
I've flown in a Cherokee Six with absolutely god-awful door and baggage latches and locks that all either refuse to close properly or take many multiple attempts to get it just right.
Had to check my browser address- I thought for a minute I had logged in to reddit. LOL.
Yeah I get it...which is why on POA in the thread's first sentence I specify exactly what happened and in the description of the youtube video I specify what happened as well. So you know what it actually is before clicking through. But I get it- I struggle with titles that will attract an audience AND satisfy them in the end.
great video and thanks for sharing. i should start locking my baggage door as well. always thought the latch would hold, and it have ...but who knows
I didn't expect my comment to go over well with the OP or with a number of other people in the thread.
Keep in mind however, that one incident with a door coming open in flight is just that - a single incident. Having a similar event happen again now makes it a pattern that *should* compel the person to change whatever pattern of behavior is causing the repeated event.
I'm hoping the OP realizes he needs to not just ensure all the latches on his Cherokee Six door engage, but also that the baggage door is not just latched but also locked. And in the bigger picture that he needs to be very cognizant of the need to recognize potential failure points and pay more attention to those details.
Sometimes it's hard to acknowledge that there is more involved than just "stuff happens" - and then patting ourselves on the back for managing it well, while glossing over the prevention aspects. I was discussing a series of incidents with someone in my office when I almost literally saw the light bulb go off. He then nodded, sighed, and said:
"During my third divorce, I looked around the courtroom and realized I was the only person who was present at all three of them. I realized that in one way or another, I was at least partly responsible for all of them. You're saying it's the same thing here. You're right."
That's personal growth and the first step toward not making a similar mistake in the future. "Stuff" does indeed "happen". What's important is how you respond to it to keep similar "stuff" it from "happening" in the future.
We can all choose to either take ownership and positive control of the events that lead up to accidents and incidents and prevent them, or we can continue to just let stuff happen. It's our choice. Choose wisely.
Although your reasoning can be applied to some situations I don't see it working here. The first problem was a cockpit door (closed by the passenger) not closing completely, compounded by said passenger thinking she had a solution. The second problem, 10 months later after many many flights, was a baggage door opening. I wouldn't consider that a pattern.
Really, the second time something happens, is a pattern? Cherokee passenger doors are notorious for not latching. The cargo door latch is a bit different and not sure we know the root cause. What I saw was someone reflecting on what happened, how it happened and things they could do different to prevent it as well as reflecting on how to handle it (e.g. declare or not). I don't see him as anything but responsible and humble, a very healthy attitude to doing things like flying. I would contrast that with a certain someone who regularly flails around in IMC and doesn't perceive it to be a problem. (rhymes with hairy bagner ). That person is scary and gets deserved comments about fixing things that he regularly ignores.
Jesus! Anything to get someone to watch your videos. How long until something bad really happens? I cant even watch them anymore cause they are like trying to up the drama....
click bait is all it is
YT have so many cat videos. not entirely sure why people choose to see a video and then come here to meow
Maybe there should be a separate thread for people to post their videos. That way if people don’t want to watch they don’t have to go there.
Some of us enjoy watching videos. I like getting to see different locations and airports, along with avionics and the different aircraft.
LOL, I missed the POA ToS item that requires you to watch every YouTube video linked in a thread and comment.
It's not clickbait if you're a PA32 driver who's curious what happens when the forward cargo door pops open in flight. Looks pretty accurately labeled video to me.
EDIT - credit to ATC Memes for this
I think it is more likely flying 40-50year old aircraft. Things break, don't work right etc. Now if there were a couple of landing incidents, runway excursions, etc then maybe
OK fair point. We should all try to learn from our mistakes. How do we caution FlyingMonkey about making sure he is double checking all potential gotchas without coming off as douchebags. A friend in person on the ground can do it more graciously that we can in a text based forum. I look at all of these posts as a potential learning opportunity- there but for the grace of God go I.
I think the words could have been chosen better, but I agree with the idea that it’s better to not miss something on a preflight than to miss it and then pat yourself on the back when you manage not to crash a perfectly airworthy airplane.
I had the baggage door pop open once. I was distracted and didn’t check it (same day I left the master on and killed one of the batteries). I didn’t even notice it at first, just noticed it was really loud in the cockpit and thought then battery died on my headset. Someone in the run up area said “something came off that Mooney!” and then I looked and saw that the door was open. Tower asked me what my intentions were and I said “fly the pattern and land.” Must have reminded myself 20 times to check the gear because I didn’t want to do three dumb things in one day.
So, is this the worst thing that could happen? No. Does it deserve some introspection on why it happened on the part of Mr. Monkey? Of course it does and it sounds like that’s exactly what happened. He’s a good little monkey, and always very curious.
Larry, I get what you're saying and am thinking deeply to consider it. For real. I am not likely to agree with it, but I am cracking my mind wide open to let it in.
I believe your intentions are to be helpful, although that is a stretch for the #2 in your first post. But I am a big fan of giving the benefit of the doubt. While we are reflecting I would just like to note that when you made your comments, by your own admission, you did not expect it to go over well. I ask in return for my thoughtful consideration of your comment that you could thoughtfully consider posting comments with less hyperbole, cynicism, or unprovoked animus so that others may receive the messages you wish to communicate. If you truly want to reach someone, you could phrase things in a way that they are more likely to be well received. It is a shame when good intentions get lost in poor packaging. I tend not to get too worked up about what others think or say about me, even when they are accusing me of something particularly egregious like the #2 in your first post, so no matter what I'll still do my part to be completely receptive to criticism, no matter how it is delivered. Your mileage may vary with others.
I think it was in a Chief Counsel letter.
This has never happened to me, baggage door opened in flight, but I came close, leaving the door open and was saved by a line man. My solution, the plane I fly, like most I've flown, uses a key to lock the door closed. The key ring has the ignition key and door key on it. So I leave the key in the door lock any time the baggage door is open. If I forget to close the baggage door, then I have no key to start the airplane. Works every time.
My baggage door is a non-event. It just sort of gently flaps in the slipstream. Having the canopy opening is a bit more unnerving (noisy as all git out), but not very dangerous (it's not going to come open more than an inch or so, it's near impossible to even pull it further because of the aerodynamics in play).
You will only have the nose baggage door come open in flight once in the Piper Navajo (chieftain).
Maybe it depends on the quality of the sights to see nearby? In Arizona we are blessed with a lot scenic areas that are great to view from the air.
Is closing and latching the passenger door part of the checklist in this plane? Is closing and locking the baggage door part of the checklist in this plane?
If so, I think I see Larry’s point as a failure of checklist discipline. Don’t remember if it was mentioned as such in the video. And a failure of checklist discipline can be fatal in aviation. That might account for some of the strong feelings expressed (perhaps not kindly enough).
If they are not part of the checklists, perhaps they should be?
I think you are right on. Quite a few of these prolific Youtube pilots document a concerning amount of mechanical issues, NMAC events, in-flight emergencies or near emergencies, and flight into unsafe or unadvisable weather conditions. Some have published more inflight issues in the span of a few months than I have experienced in 1000 hours of flying. It's hard not to reach the conclusion that there is a pattern of concerning behavior.
I won't go so far as to imply some of these videos are staged, but taking risks to generate more views is pretty undeniable. The Kodak courage (GoPro courage?) phenomenon is very real.
Personally I think Youtubers post the near emergencies and emergencies because it gets more views that "gorgeous local flight where nothing noteworthy happened". Takes a lot of effort to make those videos (though Eric does it better than almost anyone else I've seen). Those making them want them seen, and I can't blame them.
My interpretation of what Larry was suggesting is that if "gorgeous local flight where nothing noteworthy happened" isn't the description of the vast majority of a pilot's flights, there might be a problem. And that does make for generally boring YouTube content.
207s are kinda notorious for the front baggage door popping open. OK, very notorious. There are more than a few cans of Coke in the water around SE Alaska.
Pepsi is the 1 in NW Alaska. I have carried more than a few plane loads of nothing but Pepsi. I tried slipping in a triple mailer of Dr Pepper once and it didn't go over very well...
reminds me of this guy. click-bait central!
I think some people may do this. I try to do the opposite. If I know that the flight will be particularly challenging- marginal weather, a lot of first time passengers or nervous flyers I make a point to NOT roll the cameras. It is just one more thing that could be potentially distracting. You may notice that during flights in these videos where something out of the ordinary happens, I am not narrating what is going on in the moment. I am not addressing the camera at all in the moment. If it happens to get captured that's fine, but there are no situations in my flying where I have or would purposefully seek out a difficult situation just for making a stupid youtube video. (I do address camera high up in cruise or when doing a product review or explanation).
I went to do some IMC practice to lower my personal mins on a day with precip and 400' ceilings at a local airport. Would that have made good content? Probably. But I didn't bring cameras along on purpose. I went on a night currency flight and did some VFR practice approaches at night after not flying at night for a very long time. Probably would have been a solid video since I have the equipment and skill to make an amazing looking night flight video and the night currency and practice approaches could be interesting. Didn't shoot that one either. I wasn't even planning on shooting this one- you can see 2 empty GoPro frames in one of the shots- I usually roll 3 more angles...I think aviation is interesting enough without having to do stupid risky stuff. I enjoy taking a small moment and expressing how I felt in the moment in a stylized way...like experiencing a little spatial disorientation for a few seconds and explaining and expressing what that actually feels like through all the tools I have as a filmmaker...or depicting how it feels when an airplane on your ADSB display just looks like it's going to collide. It doesn't have to be dry and literal or sensationalist on the other hand. It can exist in between in a subjective place.
Thanks for the video. Glad it ended well.
Can you post another video of the Hollywood sign tour.