Hold short, hold, hold, hold, hold, hold, hold ...

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by GreatLakesFlying, Feb 23, 2019.

  1. GreatLakesFlying

    GreatLakesFlying Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yesterday there was a welcome break in the weather and I flew from Schaumburg to KJVL to celebrate my first 100 hours as PIC after earning my PPL. After the celebratory coffee and apple-cinnamon donuts at Bessie's, I climbed in the airplane for the flight back. This is my departure. It was quite comical. Apparently everyone else was flying into KJVL and I was the only traffic out!

     
  2. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    lol funny vid. looking back, that is. I'm sure it wasn't too funny at the time.
     
  3. Monpilot

    Monpilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’d rather spend my $2 a minute up in the air, but what can you do? I still enjoyed the video, because it was free :)
     
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  4. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    I got to hold short for 15 minutes in 100° heat so an airliner could land on the crossing runway then taxi back past mine . . . . Nevermind I could have taken off and departed the airspace before it reached short final.
     
  5. Ryanb

    Ryanb Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    That’s one thing I can’t complain about being based at a small non-towered field. When I’m ready to take the active, very extremely rarely do I ever have to wait on anyone!
     
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  6. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes, yes that was very comical to me, because I wasn't sitting there waiting...:lol::lol:
     
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  7. Lantraxco

    Lantraxco Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Spent five minutes holding for traffic once, followed by about seven minutes waiting for a Super Cub to eventually find the numbers. I could have done a lap in the pattern for a touch and go, but the tower said hold, lol.
     
  8. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don En-Route

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    Tower be like...

    [​IMG]
     
  9. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    You’d think they’d give you “cleared for TO rwy 4, no delay”. We get that a lot here, sometimes results in a go around, but that’s great for training (it’s a training airport). Have had it happen to me in the air and on the ground.
     
  10. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Making me do math, think I’m like 5GPH at idle, at 5 a gal, that’s like 40 cents a minute, figure times two for oil and plugs and stuff, 80 cents a minute to hold short I think.
     
  11. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    When I was at DPA and 3CK, that was my favorite burger run. Back then it was the CAVU Cafe. Then something like Kelly's.

    Never had to wait like that though.
     
  12. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Be mindful of carb ice sitting there on the ground waiting... I would pull it full on sitting there, the engine is in the the same area of operation that while flying we wouldn't think of not having carb heat on... I fly a known ice maker so I'm all the more mindful of it, but its something to think about as you set there idling.
     
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  13. flight2000

    flight2000 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Never seen an IO360 get carb ice before...fouled plugs from a rich mixture while sitting there that long for sure...:)

    Or was that just a general statement for carb engines... ;)
     
  14. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Not sure I’d want unfiltered air on the ground, pull the mixture back sure.
     
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  15. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    Seems there were opportunities to get out. They could have told him to LUAW as soon as landing traffic passed and cleared for takeoff as soon as it was 3000 down the runway, right? I'm not a controller so maybe I'm all wrong, but I avoid busy towered fields for this reason and I would have been irritated.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
  16. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    That’s what I was thinking
     
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  17. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    Imagine if he was trying to break in his engine...


    Tom
     
  18. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Middle of winter not moving.... I’ll opt for carb heat... in summer I’d say prob not the whole time but you can bet I’d hit it for a bit longer than that quick blast to check it’s effectiveness before I took off.

    And yea it was a general statement not model specific...
     
  19. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    Hell, shut it down and surf the internet. Not like you were awaiting IFR release lol.....
     
  20. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    Coming out of El Monte, I sat 15 minutes awaiting IFR release only to have them give me an updated clearance from hell. It had me vectoring all over the So Cal basin. I thought they were calling me to tell me cleared for takeoff lol. After departure I was given vectors to V186 - VNY etc.. which was essentially the clearance I had filed. The 15 minute hold cost me $33.75 but who's counting
     
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  21. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    With how much sand I see on runways no bueno
     
  22. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I was expecting the snow to melt and the daffodils to start popping up...
     
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  23. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well, at least you can log it. ;)

    Longest I've ever had to wait for takeoff was actually at an uncontrolled field - 45 minutes, but no other traffic in sight! Weather was slightly less than VMC, so I needed to get my clearance on the ground, but the airport was close enough to another airport that they couldn't release me. I had a phone line open to FSS, who kept putting me back on hold, saying I needed to wait a few more minutes, etc... On the 2nd or 3rd time we were talking, I asked what was going on and they told me it was another plane doing approaches at another airport.

    Come to find out, it was a Beechjet of all things! Who shoots practice approaches in a jet anyway? So I sat and watched my ADS-B until I figured out what airplane it was and where they were, flipped to the CTAF for that airport and asked if they could please knock it off long enough for me to get out. :D
     
  24. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy En-Route

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    Was thinking the same thing. Sitting at idle for that long in our 182 would sound like a perfect recipe for heating engine cough hard or quit 20 sec into full power.
    Flying around today in NEPA I think I had heat on more then I didn’t. Was one of those Hazy winter days!
     
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  25. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Yup... One doesnt have to hunt too hard to find an NTSB crash report that was engine failure at take off and no apparent engine problems found. Not saying they all are, but sure seems like carb ice could be the issue with some of these...

    Unfiltered air issue asside, which are valid as well, carb ice is a possibility while we idle on the ground. Some m&m more so than others
     
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  26. AKBill

    AKBill En-Route

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    Glad the longest hold I get in Juneau is for wake turbulence from AK Airlines landing..:) Unlike a lot of others I always hold for wake turbulence.
     
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  27. WillFly4Food

    WillFly4Food Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I wouldn’t keep the carb heat on for the entire time spent holding short. Just pull the knob out for a few seconds, until the roughness clears, every 5-10 minutes and again right before departure. Keep your hand on the knob when it’s out.

    I understand the concern about unfiltered air. But an iced up carburetor changes everything.
     
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  28. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

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    I think the worst part is seeing that yellow cub land at least twice while waiting...
     
  29. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    We’re that Cub and that Cessna we saw more than once the same airplanes doing pattern work?
     
  30. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    A preceding aircraft that landed would have to be off the runway. If it was a preceding departure than airborne and 3000 could work. LUAW is more restrictive than it was years ago. Not all Towers can do it. Those that can usually have a rule that an extra controller must be there to keep an eye on things.
     
  31. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I would have been livid if that happened to me. They gots a rule against delaying itenerate traffic for Practice Approaches.
     
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  32. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    At least the controller should of extended their downwind to let him depart. I would of asked ATC to do that, or on the flip side, if I was one of those up in the pattern I would of offered up to extend
     
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  33. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Yeah. Controller shoulda done all that on his own. A simple “number 2 follow the Cessna, leave me room for one departure” works very well.
     
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  34. Cici

    Cici Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The other night i decided to head KCOS to knock out my solo night landings w control tower. I figured springs has a nice big runway for the most part dedicated to GA traffic and it is rarely busy. Well something was up with the main runway because i got the, "I'll call your base" then at midfield I'm told to do a 360, then I'm told to fly between the parallels, then I'm told switch runways (to the "big" main runway). When I'm abeam the nunbers the 737 holding short says they're ready. I think the guy felt bad for me because he had the 737 hold short for the landing 152 and cleared me for the option. I did my stop and go. I thought it was funny having the skychicken stick it to the big guys.
     
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  35. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Did you cheese off the controller on arrival or something? I don't have the whole picture there but from what I saw on your video, that's just bad service on their part.
     
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  36. DMD3.

    DMD3. Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I hope you weren't in a rental aircraft. With that prop turning, the hobbs meter is ticking regardless.
     
  37. GreatLakesFlying

    GreatLakesFlying Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The only aircraft working the pattern was the jet that you see landing first in my video. It taxied back and was behind me while I was waiting for the last 4 landings -- it's all in the real-time video. Everyone else was flying in either to go to the diner or to a full-stop.

    I really thought that I'd be given a line-up-and-wait after the second landing or maybe a takeoff-no-delay clearance after the third time. And when I heard the tower instructing someone to do a 360 on downwind I thought, oh, he is making room for me. Nope, he was making room to accommodate some other inbound traffic.

    @IK04, there are two yellow planes in the video: first one is a Cub, the second is a warbird. I did not wait for any closed traffic to come down again. The only closed traffic is the jet and he got behind me waiting to go back into the pattern.

    For those of you who recommended carb heat while idling at 1000 RPM, I was flying a DA40 and there is no carb heat. But I did lean the mixture a bit after the second landing (when tower advised inbound traffic that they are #2, #3, and #4 to land).

    All-in-all it was more comical than annoying. And yes, in a rental airplane every minute counts, especially when a 30-minute flight starts with a 15-minute hold-short wait. At least that particular plane is billed by tach not by Hobbs.

    I trust the controller had his reasons. Maybe I should have advised tower that I am ready for a no-delay departure, hinting at my willingness to work with him. I know that at KPWK, with a certain controller, this kind of a gentle hint would have resulted in a verbal dress-down, so I am careful with such things ;-)
     
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  38. GreatLakesFlying

    GreatLakesFlying Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I hope not. It was routine but cordial exchange from the handoff from RFD approach to KJVL tower to parking, and the same when I called ground for taxing. I went through the full videos to see if I missed something that might have annoyed the controller. Didn't notice anything. And if he was "punishing" me for something, there was no reason to extend the punishment to the jet that was waiting behind me for 4 of these 7 landings.

    As I said, this was more comical than annoying and my guess is that the controller, who was working all positions at the time, maybe have gotten a bit busy with an unusual number of arrivals. I thought about contacting the airport manager saying listen, this is not a big deal but there was room between those 7 landings for at least one departure. In the big picture, I had no major reason to complain and that's why I turned the experience into a funny video to share with this group.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  39. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yeah, I wasn't real happy, but what can I do? And where's that rule?

    Well, we were both at different uncontrolled fields, I had FSS on the phone, she was calling ATC on the phone every few minutes, and ATC would have occasionally had the Beechjet on the radio. Not like it was something that was quick or easy to coordinate. I think after the second one it would have been nice for ATC to ask "How will this approach terminate" and maybe vector the jet around long enough to get me out, but again, not easy to coordinate when he's waiting for another phone call from FSS (and, of course, working other traffic at the same time).
     
  40. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    7110.65 4-8-11
     
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