Hit two exactas today

[RJM62]

ROI for the day was roughly 187 percent. Not too shabby.

-Rich

 

[Henning]

Rock On! I was sitting there in Caesar's sports book handicapping with the old dude who taught me how. I said "I've got a Trifecta here." He said, "No you don't, there is no such thing as having one." (He's a professional gambler as in makes 100% of his income that way and does well. He places $10,000 show bets and makes a consistent 30% on his money.)"I really think I have one, these three look solid and give some good odds.""Put $3 on it then, never more than a minimum bet on anything like that." It paid $16,3xx.

 

[John221us]

ROI for the day was roughly 187 percent. Not too shabby.

-Rich

So, you were serious when you said you were going to drop $100 on the 5th.

 

[comanchepilot]

too bad a living is not made from day to day but over the long term!

 

[RJM62]

So, you were serious when you said you were going to drop $100 on the 5th.

Oh, yes, except it was the 7th. I wouldn't joke about such a majestic thing as a horse. (But politics, global warming, and even religion from time to time, are fair game.)

-Rich

 

[RJM62]

Two exactas and a trifecta today. ROI about 345 percent.

-Rich

 

[comanchepilot]

Who is racing in rural NY in December? The trotters still going in the Meadowlands?

 

[RJM62]

Oh, there's racing all year, and there's lots of thoroughbred racing in the Northeast the winter, as well as the harness races (which I don't follow as closely, but which I'm working on understanding better because Monticello's not very far from me).

Horses are like the Postal Service: "Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night..." The winter racing I generally follow is at Aqueduct in New York; Penn National, Parx, and occasionally others in Pennsylvania (PA's a big racing state); and Woodbine in Ontario. And again, I'm working on learning to understand harness racing better, which will open up a lot more venues for me.

As far as NYRA thoroughbred racing is concerned, winter racing happens as Aqueduct; in the spring and fall they run at Belmont; and in the summer at Saratoga. I used to haunt Belmont and Aqueduct a lot when I lived in Queens, but nowadays I only go downstate for bigger races. I do get out to Saratoga during the summer. It's not exactly around the corner, but it's close enough to make a day or two out of it.

Otherwise, it's OTB for me most of the time these days. Online OTB is actually pretty good if all you want to do is bet, but I do prefer being there in person. I like horses and I enjoy the whole experience and pageantry of being at the track. To me, it's better than any other big-league sport. It's also a lot cheaper: Parking is usually free and admission cheap; and the wagering is optional and (hopefully) under your control.

Being there in person also helps because you can actually see the horses during post parade. Sometimes horses have bad days, just like we do; and if you're sensitive to their way of communicating, you can pick up on that. Many a bet I've changed because a horse told me, in its own way, that it wasn't feeling too great that day; and at times I've placed or changed a bet because a horse just looked unusually eager and raring to go. Sometimes a long shot will impress me enough during post parade that I'll put a few dollars on him or her, and sometimes those horses thank me handsomely for my votes of confidence.

They do show the paddock and the post parade on the simultcasts at other tracks, at OTB, or online, but it's not quite the same. You don't get the complete picture, and there's also the loss of whatever pheromonal communication might be happening. And again, I also like being there for the sake of the spectator experience. Like any other sport, you lose a lot of the perspective if you're not there.

Nonetheless, if you understand math (especially probability), have a basic grasp of how parimutuel betting works, are willing to spend a few minutes researching the horses running in every race, and (most importantly) don't get greedy, you can make money on the races from wherever you are. But being there gives you an extra edge.

-Rich

 

[Henning]

Nonetheless, if you understand math (especially probability), have a basic grasp of how parimutuel betting works, are willing to spend a few minutes researching the horses running in every race, and (most importantly) don't get greedy, you can make money on the races from wherever you are. But being there gives you an extra edge.

Can't be put much better. I love going too, I love to ride fast horses, I had a fast horse, half Arabian quarter T/bred, quarter Quarter. Tons of attitude buts had a turbocharger for competition, if I could have put him out on the track I would have bet on him.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

And don't forget the jock, especially in lower grade stakes. A good jockey can make a horse run above his class. A bad jockey can make a good horse run like a plug.
Even good jockey's have bad days. Zenyatta should won going away.

 

[wabower]

"What are you doing today?"

"Going to the track. I'm hoping I break even because I need the money."

Oh, there's racing all year, and there's lots of thoroughbred racing in the Northeast the winter, as well as the harness races (which I don't follow as closely, but which I'm working on understanding better because Monticello's not very far from me).

Horses are like the Postal Service: "Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night..." The winter racing I generally follow is at Aqueduct in New York; Penn National, Parx, and occasionally others in Pennsylvania (PA's a big racing state); and Woodbine in Ontario. And again, I'm working on learning to understand harness racing better, which will open up a lot more venues for me.

As far as NYRA thoroughbred racing is concerned, winter racing happens as Aqueduct; in the spring and fall they run at Belmont; and in the summer at Saratoga. I used to haunt Belmont and Aqueduct a lot when I lived in Queens, but nowadays I only go downstate for bigger races. I do get out to Saratoga during the summer. It's not exactly around the corner, but it's close enough to make a day or two out of it.

Otherwise, it's OTB for me most of the time these days. Online OTB is actually pretty good if all you want to do is bet, but I do prefer being there in person. I like horses and I enjoy the whole experience and pageantry of being at the track. To me, it's better than any other big-league sport. It's also a lot cheaper: Parking is usually free and admission cheap; and the wagering is optional and (hopefully) under your control.

Being there in person also helps because you can actually see the horses during post parade. Sometimes horses have bad days, just like we do; and if you're sensitive to their way of communicating, you can pick up on that. Many a bet I've changed because a horse told me, in its own way, that it wasn't feeling too great that day; and at times I've placed or changed a bet because a horse just looked unusually eager and raring to go. Sometimes a long shot will impress me enough during post parade that I'll put a few dollars on him or her, and sometimes those horses thank me handsomely for my votes of confidence.

They do show the paddock and the post parade on the simultcasts at other tracks, at OTB, or online, but it's not quite the same. You don't get the complete picture, and there's also the loss of whatever pheromonal communication might be happening. And again, I also like being there for the sake of the spectator experience. Like any other sport, you lose a lot of the perspective if you're not there.

Nonetheless, if you understand math (especially probability), have a basic grasp of how parimutuel betting works, are willing to spend a few minutes researching the horses running in every race, and (most importantly) don't get greedy, you can make money on the races from wherever you are. But being there gives you an extra edge.

-Rich

 

[RJM62]

And don't forget the jock, especially in lower grade stakes. A good jockey can make a horse run above his class. A bad jockey can make a good horse run like a plug.
Even good jockey's have bad days. Zenyatta should won going away.

Yep, and there's also the interaction between the jockey and the horse. Some pairings are just better than others. It's pretty easy to tell when a horse and a jockey aren't quite hitting it off.

That's the part of harness racing I'm having a problem with, by the way. I don't have an understanding of that communication between the horse and the driver.

-Rich

 

[RJM62]

"What are you doing today?"

"Going to the track. I'm hoping I break even because I need the money."

Never bet with scared money.

-Rich

 

[Chip Sylverne]

That's the part of harness racing I'm having a problem with, by the way. I don't have an understanding of at communication between the horse and the driver.

-Rich

Not to sound like a master of the obvious, but it's the hands, voice and whip.

First, consider that a horse is 1200 lbs of muscle that can feel the weight of a fly landing on it's derriere. Hypersensitive. A skillful harness jock uses that sensitivity via manipulations of the reins to communicate. The highest complement you can give any horseman is to say they have "soft hands". Reins are a whole lot more subtle form of communication than just turn right, turn left and stop. Many also confuse the whip with simply "go", but it's also a tool of positive reinforcement that gives a variety of cues depending on the angle with which it's held, and the amplitude of touch.

But mostly it's the hands, as that's the most direct line (no pun intended) and it's done with subtle squeezes or vibrations of the reins. Jocks need to balance asking for that last ounce of pace or trot without breaking into the canter. Take a piece off string and squeeze it between your thumb and forefinger, then loop it in toward you and out between your ring and pinky. Then tie it to your toe and hold it taught, but not tight. We call that " contact". Squeeze the string with your ring and middle finger and feel the subtle pull in your toe. Those signals are all it takes to communicate once understands the concept of "yielding" to the hand.
That's how we get the idea across to the pony club kids anyway.
Horses are amazing critters.

 

[denverpilot]

Some jocks also use verbal cues. Horses listen fairly well to people they know.

 

[RJM62]

Not to sound like a master of the obvious, but it's the hands, voice and whip.

First, consider that a horse is 1200 lbs of muscle that can feel the weight of a fly landing on it's derriere. Hypersensitive. A skillful harness jock uses that sensitivity via manipulations of the reins to communicate. The highest complement you can give any horseman is to say they have "soft hands". Reins are a whole lot more subtle form of communication than just turn right, turn left and stop. Many also confuse the whip with simply "go", but it's also a tool of positive reinforcement that gives a variety of cues depending on the angle with which it's held, and the amplitude of touch.

But mostly it's the hands, as that's the most direct line (no pun intended) and it's done with subtle squeezes or vibrations of the reins. Jocks need to balance asking for that last ounce of pace or trot without breaking into the canter. Take a piece off string and squeeze it between your thumb and forefinger, then loop it in toward you and out between your ring and pinky. Then tie it to your toe and hold it taught, but not tight. We call that " contact". Squeeze the string with your ring and middle finger and feel the subtle pull in your toe. Those signals are all it takes to communicate once understands the concept of "yielding" to the hand.
That's how we get the idea across to the pony club kids anyway.
Horses are amazing critters.

Thanks, Chip.

I actually spent a few hours this evening watching the harness races out of Yonkers, bearing what you wrote in mind. But I'm going to have to get out to the track to get a feel for it. Monticello's only about an hour or so from me. Also, the weather wasn't great at Yonkers tonight, so the simulcast was hazy, and any subtly was lost.

Betting-wise, I just used math, and kept it to $2.00 bets. Still, I made about $50.00 over the course of the evening, which is decent for $2.00 bets, mainly by betting the second and third favorites. I find that works pretty well when I'm not familiar with the horses, riders / drivers, or venues.

-Rich

 

[Henning]

Thanks, Chip.

I actually spent a few hours this evening watching the harness races out of Yonkers, bearing what you wrote in mind. But I'm going to have to get out to the track to get a feel for it. Monticello's only about an hour or so from me. Also, the weather wasn't great at Yonkers tonight, so the simulcast was hazy, and any subtly was lost.

Betting-wise, I just used math, and kept it to $2.00 bets. Still, I made about $50.00 over the course of the evening, which is decent for $2.00 bets, mainly by betting the second and third favorites. I find that works pretty well when I'm not familiar with the horses, riders / drivers, or venues.

-Rich

It's really tricky to be able to spot a good driver from the side of the track because much of it is nuance. If you're really interested though, head over to Amish country and have one of the guys who work the 8+ big plow teams teach you to drive his buggy. There is a lot of nuance involved in driving horses that unless you know exactly what you are looking for and at becomes quite difficult to discern.

 

[RJM62]

It's really tricky to be able to spot a good driver from the side of the track because much of it is nuance. If you're really interested though, head over to Amish country and have one of the guys who work the 8+ big plow teams teach you to drive his buggy. There is a lot of nuance involved in driving horses that unless you know exactly what you are looking for and at becomes quite difficult to discern.

Not a bad idea. Thanks.

-Rich

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

It's really tricky to be able to spot a good driver from the side of the track because much of it is nuance. If you're really interested though, head over to Amish country and have one of the guys who work the 8+ big plow teams teach you to drive his buggy. There is a lot of nuance involved in driving horses that unless you know exactly what you are looking for and at becomes quite difficult to discern.

My friends dad had 4 ton work teams for fun. He was putting them through their paces for show when an afternoon T-storm came up. Jogged in front of them at a good trot right up to the barn door and they stopped on a dime before crushing him, uncommanded. Massive, fast moving and impressive.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

head over to Amish country and have one of the guys who work the 8+ big plow teams teach you to drive his buggy. There is a lot of nuance involved in driving horses that unless you know exactly what you are looking for and at becomes quite difficult to discern.

A little bit like trying to learn to drive an F1 car by driving a big rig, but any time spent with horses is a good thing.

Try this. When watching a flat race, just watch what the good jocks from the shoulders to elbows to hands. How they'll take just a little when they want to control pace or balance, and give just a little when they want speed. The sulky jocks are doing the same thing, only at less volume.

Then imagine the whip taking the place of the flat jocks position in the saddle. You'll notice when the flat jock wants to control pace, his legs are in front, shifting his weight rearward and balancing the horse. When he makes his move, he shifts forward a bit, using his weight as a driving aid. the whip is used in the same manner, to drive, or to balance.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Not a bad idea. Thanks.

-Rich

Better idea, go take some lessons at a barn that has some nice, light horses, and ride! You'll be learning about them the rest of your life, and it's time well spent.