Hiring standards are dropping

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It depends. I guess I'm lucky, but I work 5 miles from home on back roads, have great medical coverage 100% paid by my employer, and pretty good retirement savings from the company profit sharing fund. There's some BS due to it being a family owned company but they treat their employees pretty well. But I know that's the exception today.

When I retire in a year or two, I expect I'll come back as a part time consultant. I like the work I do, I just want more free time. If I didn't want to keep my plane and mountain cabin I'd already be retired.

They're going to need me to come back... we can't find qualified engineers. I'll be the last of 4 engineers in my group to retire. Two of the other retirees have come back part time, but it's not enough. We just hired a couple of recent graduates and they're coming along, but what we really need is a few mid career mechanical engineers; the kids aren't ready for the kind of large projects us older guys can. But guys in their 40s just aren't looking for a career change, it seems.

ding ding ding

"I like the work I do" - that's key. It's HUGE.

When I retired at 58, I was working with a guy that was 67 and still enjoyed the work. For me, on the other hand, the fun had been sucked out of my job by various things (can't go into them because of privacy and also POA ROC).
 
As one of the younger generation, it's really interesting reading the "other side" of this. As one of the job seekers, it is very hard to find jobs willing to take someone with little to no experience and train them up, or jobs that allow you to have a better work-life balance than was popular twenty or thirty years ago, even if you're qualified for it. I don't mind work and when I'm employed somewhere, I do my best to make sure they get their money's worth or more from me - but I no longer want to work overtime, weekends, or holidays. When I was single, I was fine with working all three and worked all three regularly - but now I have way more important things to do with my limited time than make another couple of bucks.

Especially in the last two or three years, life has felt awfully precarious for us young people and I think that may be driving a shift away from spending time at work to spending time at home, even if family consists of a cat. Whether it's a comfort mechanism or just a sense of urgency to make memories with loved ones in case there isn't time later, I don't know. In a very real sense, it feels like the world is teetering on the edge of sanity and order and all it would take is one wrong step from any leader around the globe to plunge us all into chaos, all-out war, and a scramble for survival. I imagine it's a lot like what growing up in the shadow of nuclear threat felt like, so maybe every generation feels like this in young adulthood and my generation (and the next younger one) are choosing to react to it differently.

For me, personally, I feel a little like I'm living on borrowed time. I don't know how long I'll be able to hang on to my life as it is. One act of Congress, one war, one draft could take it away - and at this point, with all the "war and rumors of war", it feels like that time will be sooner rather than later. Maybe it's alarmist, but maybe it's not - and it's a lot harder to dismiss it when you stand to lose brothers and husbands. It makes you want to reach out with both hands and grab the important things in life - and make decisions you won't regret if the worst happens. I will never regret spending Saturdays laughing with and loving on my husband. If I lost him, I would very much regret spending every Saturday working for a few extra bucks.

All that said, there are plenty of people around my age that just want everything handed to them and not have to do much, if any, work for it. They've been told they were special throughout their entire childhood and they're left wondering where all their special perks have gone now that they're out in the real world, working entry-level office jobs or making chicken sandwiches. They want what their parents have, but they don't want to go through the struggle their parents did - and they want it now, not at age 40. They want the plushy job, the six figure salary, and the Lamborghinis they see on TV and social media, without any understanding of the sacrifices made to achieve those things or desire to do the research to understand that most of what they see is rented splendor, movie props, or ill-gotten gain. A lot of them have no concept as to the value of money and no knowledge of budgeting or smart financial decisions - and no respect for those who might be able to steer them towards financial freedom and success. They want their million dollars now, not in thirty years.

Some of it is entitlement, some of it is parents trying to give their children a way above the struggle they experienced. I think a lot of it is differing order of priorities - or maybe it's just a different way of whistling in the dark.
 
Yes, a few probably can say that, but mostly this generation was taught to be that way. I blame public schools.

A few years ago a friend of mine was substitute teaching a FFA class. Partly because so one else wanted to teach FFA. These are kids, aged 14-18 whose parents work, own their own businesses and work hard every day at it.

One day he asked the kids, ''Who here thinks they are owed something.'' He didn't ask who owed them, just if they were owed something. Every last student raised their hand.

FFA?
 
Future Farmers of America?

you want hard work? go into farming.
 
Years ago they would hold a sign saying,"will work for food" but now they ask for folding money ...
Yeah, I tried hiring a couple of those one one day to help me make hay and stack bales. One turned sheet white after about 15 minutes. Had to drag him over and put his head under the hydrant. Seriously debated calling an ambulance, but I didn't want to be on the hook for any medical shenanigans. The other held out for another couple hours and just disappeared.

My advice? Give them the folding money.
 
Future Farmers of America?

you want hard work? go into farming.
Tell me about it. Left an executive position 30 years ago to buy a farm. Been fun and all, but the prospect of stacking bales at age 65 is getting a little daunting.

I've mechanized about all I can. Hiring labor has never been this difficult.
 
Future Farmers of America?

you want hard work? go into farming.

My no-b.s. answer when anyone asks what my 'dream' job is, it's always farming. Unfortunately, I've already lived through one family farm failing due to high interest and crap markets and I don't think I want to go through that again. Even though I was only in elementary school at the time, I saw the toll it took on my parents.

If I ever win the lottery, I'll go farm until it's all spent, then go back to a regular job.
 
anyone remember the movie "Soul Man"? In particular, scene/dialog in the begining with the spoiled rich boys thinking they'd go to law school, become lawyers, do a couple of corporate mergers and retire at 30...
 
Working full time puts you into a rat race, you don’t have good medical coverage and your paychecks are deducted for mediocre coverage. You barely have any time off, and limited sick leave. You’re sitting in traffic or commuting daily, which is no fun, going to an office to play office politics, in most jobs you get disrespected and usually you don’t have any self fulfillment in what you do. On top of that, you likely don’t have any retirement. Even federal government jobs have reduced retirement benefits to 1% per year of service from 2%. 30% of your salary doesn’t go a long way for working 30 years, deduct medical insurance and taxes from this payment too

Fed retirement changed in the mid-1980s. Not recently. And if you work 20 years and to at least 62, you get 1.1% per year worked. Certain jobs get 1.7% per year for the first 20 years.

Plus Social Security. And there is TSP, which is like a 401K.

All together, I worked for the Feds for 25 years and when I retired, my take home pay went UP.

Also, many jobs are part or full time telework these days. So no commute.

What I was seeing was people who "deserved" (in their own minds) a promotion because "I have been here for XX years." Hmm, maybe you should perform to the level of your current job first, just less demonstratiing that you can work at the higher level. And both were interviewed for a higher level position, where the job included planning forward and growing the program, neither could come up with an answer to the question "where do you see the program going and changing over the next 3, 5, and 10 years.
They had NO ANSWER at all. Could not even make something up.
 
Yeah, the US needs to fix the housing problem and that will help with some of the labor problem. Especially at the unskilled/low skilled level. It's hard for homeless people to get work when their life is just a constant struggle to get enough food for the day and somewhere safe-ish to sleep that night. Much less deal with the mental health issues and addiction issues that so many homeless have. For me, it just seems morally justified to help those people and that's enough motivation. But if you add in the fact that there is societal benefit also, even more reason to help people get back on their feet.

I did a lot of work with the state mental health organization in the 90s. They had compelling charts of how the homeless population tracked the decline in people in mental institutions when the Karens got the law changed to let everyone out.

So they had bed and room to sleep, 3 meals a day, and assistance/counselling to living under a blue tarp. Yeap, that helped them out.
 
I did a lot of work with the state mental health organization in the 90s. They had compelling charts of how the homeless population tracked the decline in people in mental institutions when the Karens got the law changed to let everyone out.

So they had bed and room to sleep, 3 meals a day, and assistance/counselling to living under a blue tarp. Yeap, that helped them out.
Point of fact. It wasn't the Karen's that released the involuntary committed from institutions. It was the Reagan administration deinstitutionalization in '81 to cut budgets that released the mentally ill to "community care".

From JAMA:
"With the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, the federal government ended direct federal funding for community-based nursing homes that primarily treated patients with mental health problems and required the screening of patients entering nursing homes to assure they had legitimate medical illness [18]."

So, not being political, just correcting the record.
 
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My son asked me one day… “should we drug test?”

Uh, we already know the answer. Are you prepared to try and replace ALL of them!

Didn’t care about a drivers license. Owning a car and being willing to get to work illegally. Geesh…

Drug testing is becoming increasingly problematic with the patchwork of state "legalization" of certain drugs. We have all seen that in the Medical Topics forum here, people that use "legal" drugs but then fail a mandated employment or flight medical drug test. Marijuana testing can see back 7 to 30 days, so who's to say someone didn't use something Friday night, then gets popped for a drug test Monday morning at work and fails. I'm not making the case one way or another, but it is becoming an increasingly gray area.
 
Something is broken. I've heard my side and your side of the equation so many times.
Could it be that the "industry" that calls itself "human resources" is nothing but a repository for well-connected incompetent children, who if left to their own devices would woefully underperform their families' expectations?
 
...but I no longer want to work overtime, weekends, or holidays. When I was single, I was fine with working all three and worked all three regularly - but now I have way more important things to do with my limited time than make another couple of bucks.

I think that IS a difference from my generation (not saying whether one is better; just different). I always took all the OT work I could get, as did most of my colleagues. Not only for the pay itself (and some of the OT was unpaid), but because the work environment is competitive, both internally and externally. If I wanted my company to beat a competitor and win a major contract, I had to be willing to outwork my competitor counterpart. If I wanted raises and bonuses and promotions, I had to outperform my colleagues.

Of course, it helped that I was doing work that I truly enjoyed.


In a very real sense, it feels like the world is teetering on the edge of sanity and order and all it would take is one wrong step from any leader around the globe to plunge us all into chaos, all-out war, and a scramble for survival. ....so maybe every generation feels like this in young adulthood and my generation (and the next younger one) are choosing to react to it differently.

Each generation sees this as unique to them, but it really isn't. Imagine how the world looked to the generations who in their younger years faced frightening crises like WWI, the Great Depression, WWII, the Cuban Missile Crisis, Jimmy Carter, the Cold War, Vietnam, etc., etc. When you're also at the age where you're just starting out in life (and learning to deal with home leases and car purchases and a new spouse and so forth), it can all be a bit overwhelming.

Take a deep breath and try to chill a little bit.


I think a lot of it is differing order of priorities - or maybe it's just a different way of whistling in the dark.

I suspect you're right.
 
Each generation sees this as unique to them, but it really isn't. Imagine how the world looked to the generations who in their younger years faced frightening crises like WWI, the Great Depression, WWII, the Cuban Missile Crisis, Jimmy Carter, the Cold War, Vietnam, etc., etc.
Any generation who doesn't have this impending sense of existential dread is a lucky one.

Mine was the turn-of-the-century instability. And not to be predictably overdramatic about the effect that 9/11 had on my generation, but in addition to the intangible feeling that we were not bubble-wrapped from global strife, I also have the very tangible group of friends and acquaintances who were killed or maimed in the wars that directly followed.

Then the 2008 financial crisis. Then the past few years... so yeah. I am not sure that there's ever a point where the world isn't going to $#!% in numerous ways.
 
Each generation sees this as unique to them, but it really isn't. Imagine how the world looked to the generations who in their younger years faced frightening crises like WWI, the Great Depression, WWII, the Cuban Missile Crisis, Jimmy Carter, the Cold War, Vietnam, etc., etc. When you're also at the age where you're just starting out in life (and learning to deal with home leases and car purchases and a new spouse and so forth), it can all be a bit overwhelming.
Being on the older side myself and thus having had parents and grandparents that were around for WWI and WWII, from their stories, one of the biggest problems parents had was trying to keep their kids (including underage kids) from volunteering to go fight for our country and freedom.
 
My dream retirement job was to be a door greeter at Walmart.

I hope I still qualify...
 
My dream retirement job was to be a door greeter at Walmart.

I hope I still qualify...
I don't know, Walmart's door greeter position is evolving into receipt checker. You have to do more than smile and wave.
 
I don't know, Walmart's door greeter position is evolving into receipt checker. You have to do more than smile and wave.
Yeah, you are right.
They have taken that away from me...

Also, I feel like a criminal when I leave Walmart.
 
Must be regional. My walmart has neither greeters nor receipt checkers.
 
If you are young and have some skills, w/a good attitude, and the ability to learn. Wow, so much opportunity.
 
Being asked to take a drug test is demeaning and disrespectful. I understand the reason behind it, but I would never want to work for an employer who asked me to pee in a cup.
 
Being asked to take a drug test is demeaning and disrespectful. I understand the reason behind it, but I would never want to work for an employer who asked me to pee in a cup.
Few years ago, our sales mgr ( in title only ) got his name pulled three times in a row. :goofy:The last one was the day after got back from a show in Vegas. :rofl::rofl: He was sure I was messing w/him. I wasn't, he was just lucky that way.
 
I don't know, Walmart's door greeter position is evolving into receipt checker. You have to do more than smile and wave.

Yeah, you are right.
They have taken that away from me...

Also, I feel like a criminal when I leave Walmart.


Ya gotta have some fun with 'em.....

When they ask to see your receipt, act like you didn't hear them and begin to walk past. When they ask again, turn and say "Eh?" When they again repeat the request, ask them to speak up. With just a little effort, you can have them shouting "RECEIPT!" at the top of their lungs. Once you've gone about as far with it as you think you can, just smile and say, "Oh, I don't need any help. I'm sure I can carry this to my car, but thank you!" Then walk out.
:devil:

(And yes, I've done this.)
 
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I know it is getting hard to find good employees, but I have never seen such low standards. I read a (non-aviation) employment ad this morning. The only thing it listed as required skills was "must have the ability to work Saturdays".
Saturdays has to be mentioned; they might get in trouble offending someone just stating "must have ability to work".
 
Being asked to take a drug test is demeaning and disrespectful. I understand the reason behind it, but I would never want to work for an employer who asked me to pee in a cup.
Heck, I was just told to do that today, again, just to start the year. I deal with that indignity about 4 times a year, supposedly on a "random" basis. Last time I got uppity and drew it on crayons for them on why it isn't statistically possible for that to be random, I got me a tone-policing *cough* I mean "counseling" session to add to the golden shower show.

No healthcare professional either, just random rank and file flunkies who volunteer for the task of watching people's genitals. Ah yes, the prison-like joy of having another man of stare at my genitals while I relieve myself in a clear plastic cup. 3 more years of this ish to the jelly of the month club.
 
If you're chronically desperate for employees and you don't want to pay more, then you don't have a hiring problem, you have a strategy problem.
If you're chronically desperate for employees and you CAN'T (not won't, but CANT) pay them more - then your company is probably circling the drain and no one should want to work for you. At least not if they want to envision a future at the company.
 
"Curriculum vitae"

It's academia's version of a resume, and is more commonly used in education or research settings. It often includes a listing of published research.
Periodically my university requires an updated CV from me. And periodically they ask why the pubs list is so short. Maybe because half my pubs (and jobs) are classified?
As one of the younger generation, it's really interesting reading the "other side" of this. As one of the job seekers, it is very hard to find jobs willing to take someone with little to no experience and train them up, or jobs that allow you to have a better work-life balance than was popular twenty or thirty years ago, even if you're qualified for it. I don't mind work and when I'm employed somewhere, I do my best to make sure they get their money's worth or more from me - but I no longer want to work overtime, weekends, or holidays. When I was single, I was fine with working all three and worked all three regularly - but now I have way more important things to do with my limited time than make another couple of bucks.

Especially in the last two or three years, life has felt awfully precarious for us young people and I think that may be driving a shift away from spending time at work to spending time at home, even if family consists of a cat. Whether it's a comfort mechanism or just a sense of urgency to make memories with loved ones in case there isn't time later, I don't know. In a very real sense, it feels like the world is teetering on the edge of sanity and order and all it would take is one wrong step from any leader around the globe to plunge us all into chaos, all-out war, and a scramble for survival. I imagine it's a lot like what growing up in the shadow of nuclear threat felt like, so maybe every generation feels like this in young adulthood and my generation (and the next younger one) are choosing to react to it differently.

For me, personally, I feel a little like I'm living on borrowed time. I don't know how long I'll be able to hang on to my life as it is. One act of Congress, one war, one draft could take it away - and at this point, with all the "war and rumors of war", it feels like that time will be sooner rather than later. Maybe it's alarmist, but maybe it's not - and it's a lot harder to dismiss it when you stand to lose brothers and husbands. It makes you want to reach out with both hands and grab the important things in life - and make decisions you won't regret if the worst happens. I will never regret spending Saturdays laughing with and loving on my husband. If I lost him, I would very much regret spending every Saturday working for a few extra bucks.

All that said, there are plenty of people around my age that just want everything handed to them and not have to do much, if any, work for it. They've been told they were special throughout their entire childhood and they're left wondering where all their special perks have gone now that they're out in the real world, working entry-level office jobs or making chicken sandwiches. They want what their parents have, but they don't want to go through the struggle their parents did - and they want it now, not at age 40. They want the plushy job, the six figure salary, and the Lamborghinis they see on TV and social media, without any understanding of the sacrifices made to achieve those things or desire to do the research to understand that most of what they see is rented splendor, movie props, or ill-gotten gain. A lot of them have no concept as to the value of money and no knowledge of budgeting or smart financial decisions - and no respect for those who might be able to steer them towards financial freedom and success. They want their million dollars now, not in thirty years.

Some of it is entitlement, some of it is parents trying to give their children a way above the struggle they experienced. I think a lot of it is differing order of priorities - or maybe it's just a different way of whistling in the dark.
My parents' policy once I hit high school - when I could afford it, I could have it. When I graduated from college (the first time) I was informed that other than help with the down payment on the condo, I was in a field where I wasn't going to go hungry. Might be eating spaghettio-s for a while, but I wasn't going to starve.
 
Being asked to take a drug test is demeaning and disrespectful. I understand the reason behind it, but I would never want to work for an employer who asked me to pee in a cup.

It’s also a condition of employment written in the law for federal workers and federal contract holders.

Not to mention most safety critical roles, such as railway workers, bus drivers, and airline pilots, among others.
 
My company has 32 employees. We have 4 private bathrooms. At ANY given time at least 3 are occupied. Means 10% of my workforce is not working while getting paid.
 
My company has 32 employees. We have 4 private bathrooms. At ANY given time at least 3 are occupied. Means 10% of my workforce is not working while getting paid.
You could always have them **** in a bucket at their workstation, I'm sure that would boost both productivity and morale.
 
You could always have them **** in a bucket at their workstation, I'm sure that would boost both productivity and morale.
Oh come on, how often they need to go?None of them have any problem sitting through a 3 hour movie without the need to.
 
Being asked to take a drug test is demeaning and disrespectful. I understand the reason behind it, but I would never want to work for an employer who asked me to pee in a cup.
Agreed. At this stage in my life I can afford to be selective enough to simply not accept any position that requires either pre-employment or periodic testing. I did it exactly once, about 20 years ago, and swore to never agree to it again. It gets the entire employment relationship off on the wrong foot.
 
Being asked to take a drug test is demeaning and disrespectful. I understand the reason behind it, but I would never want to work for an employer who asked me to pee in a cup.
You might understand the reasons for doing it, but I suspect you don't understand the implications of NOT doing it.
 
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