High Perf/ Complex lesson #4

AdamZ

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
14,866
Location
Montgomery County PA
Display Name

Display name:
Adam Zucker
Well today was lesson numberr 4 if you can call it that. Low pressure moved off the coast, actually pretty far off the coast and a High pressure system was moving in from the midwest but was still centered somewhere over indiana I think. Temps dropped to near single digits and the wind really kicked up variable and gusty. at 2:30 wind at KLOM was some where in the neighborhood of 310@15G25. KLOMs runways is 6/24. We were schedualed to do stalls today. We needed a ceiling of 3K to do the stalls it was broken at 3100 bkn at 4100 ovc at 4800.
In reality I couldn't tell you what it was it was such a weird day. Gray and overcast from the south west to southeast a line of cummulus to the north west and VERY Gusty winds. Well after I thawed my fingers from adding oil to the Lance we preflighted, climbed in and cranked her up. It was sooo cold and the wind was howing as I said earlier. I'm not a huge fan of cross winds so I made it a point to say lets do this. prior to taking the runway I took note of the wind one last time and remined myself to put in ample right aileron. The pattern was empty as was to be expected. As I put in power I kept that yoke cranked to the right. everything seemed ok. Then at lift off BAM! here come the gusts variable from 250 to 350 whoosh up comes the right wing despite a ton of right alieron. Then something happend that I saw a commander experience an hour earlier. We started to yaw like crazy. Not roll but yaw. It was like someone grabbed the vertical stabilizer and just played with us. I dont know if the rudder controlled the situation or we just climbed out of the turb. It was really pronounced. I have experienced turb, bumps and rolls but never this. Man that was weird.

Despite haveing some serious bank in on cross wind and cross to downwind. I was getting blow way out. I must have had a 35-40 deg crab in on down wind. I opted to do one pattern just to get a hold of the wind. We skipped the third notich of flaps due to the wind. I needed so much right aileron in I thought the right wing would touch before the mains. It was really out of hand and not very pleasant. We landed and everything was still attached to the plane. We taxied back to 24 and noticed the wind getting stronger and what looked like virga off the departure end of the runway. May have been snow virga not sure but it was cold enough. figuring that was not a promising sight I taxied down the runway to the first taxiway and pulled off. We pulled into the runup area off the taxiway and shut down for about 10 min. We watched the weather called FSS again on the cell and waited. CFi asked what I wanted to do. Well what I wanted to do was take on this darn cross wind. But the weather was just so weird. It was pretty surreal. I was feeling like a wuss but I just couldn't figure the weather out. looked like a front to the NW and dark to the south. I dunno I just decided I can do this another day and we tucked the Lance back in. I felt kinda dumb but I just couldn't get a grasp on what was going on up in the atmosphere. On the bright side Despite the X-wind and gusts I put her down on the center line and my CFI said the procdures were great. So another day. I guess thats what flying is about. Due to my travel and CFIs next lesson will be march 12 after a march 11 Angel flight to Roanoke. So I'll report back then.
 
Last edited:
Aren't you glad you were flying the Lance instead of something lighter that would have gotten blown around more? Lance's are great X-wind airplanes, but sure don't blame you for ending the flight. Those conditions are no fun.
 
Mark you could not have put it better. Had I been in the Archer I would have really been in for a wild ride
 
Well, again, I just think that if you didn't feel good about it, why fight it? You did do some practice, and you know you can handle these winds, even if they are unpleasant. Put that in the back of your mind if you should ever unintentionally encounter conditions like this.

Also, I would guess that you weren't crabbing so much as you thought. The Lance/Saratoga has a long nose, so any angling into the wind might look like more than it was.

One other thought: for crosswind landings in the PA-32, you might consider kickout instead of the cross-control all the way to the runway. The reason I say that is because if you do a kickout, you won't need to dip the wing as much, and you won't be cross controlling in those gusts. Of course, you also know to carry more speed, use power until touchdown, and fly her firmly onto the runway--forget about a soft touchdown.

Still, it sounds like fun, and I wish I had been there!
 
AdamZ said:
Well today was lesson numberr 4 if you can call it that.

Lesson 4: There are days that you don't want to be flying this plane.

Lesson 4: Accomplished.

Good lesson.

Whenever you think "I want to take this on and beat it", you always have to ask yourself, "Why?"
 
Henning said:
Whenever you think "I want to take this on and beat it", you always have to ask yourself, "Why?"

That type of preflight introspection would also be for every flight, wouldn't it ?
 
Originally Posted by Henning

Whenever you think "I want to take this on and beat it", you always have to ask yourself, "Why?"

Dave Krall CFII said:
That type of preflight introspection would also be for every flight, wouldn't it ?

Not particularly. Rarely am I taking on a flight where I am "beating" something. I know what the plane can do, I know what I can do. There are days and occassions where I am asked to do something outside the normal envelope. On those days I ask "why?" usually the answer is money, but that won't outweigh everything, my judgement is what they pay me for, so sometimes they hear "No" if I feal the risk outweighs the benefit. But most of my flights don't require any introspection of personal motivation at all.
 
Henning said:
Not particularly. Rarely am I taking on a flight where I am "beating" something. I know what the plane can do, I know what I can do. There are days and occassions where I am asked to do something outside the normal envelope. On those days I ask "why?" usually the answer is money, but that won't outweigh everything, my judgement is what they pay me for, so sometimes they hear "No" if I feal the risk outweighs the benefit. But most of my flights don't require any introspection of personal motivation at all.

No doubt for the more challenging flights whether for money or not, but I figure even with the so called routine flying, one always has to consider the cost even if briefly to "beat gravity" which as we all know continues to accumulate a rather impressive string of victories.
 
Henning said:
Rarely am I taking on a flight where I am "beating" something. I know what the plane can do, I know what I can do.

I think that is as a result of you extensive experience. At some point in our ( at least my) training we are 'beating something' even if its our first solo, first flight in to IMC or an approach to lower minimums than you had last year. If x-winds make ya nervous what better way to become more comfortable than to do a few turns around the pattern in an X-wind. "Beating Something" does not in my book mean taking on something foolhardy. For me it was not like saying gee we have theses horrendous cross winds Let me see if I can do it. I knew the winds and gusts, although unpleasant, were with in the x-wind component limitation of the plane and I knew I had my CFI seated next to me. I would not have taken my family up then but went up in the event I do have my family with me and the weather deteriorates as we all know it can.
I guess its really all just personal minimums and the fact that minimums are developed they don't just exist. Many of us are constantly re-evaluating our minimus, how else can we do this but challange ourselves. So I guess flying to 'beat' something may not be the best description, after all the weather is nature and mother nature always wins. You will never beat the wind only increase your capablities of handling it.
 
Hey Adam alway haveing a good picture of the weather is a good part of flying understanding what is unfolding.To alway make things black & White go or no go there no room for maybe or not sure. I think your were doing some good thinking.
Jaime
 
Back
Top