Hey, V-tail Drivers

[Cpt_Kirk]

Do you find your v-tail to be really sensitive in pitch in certain flight regimes?

Sometimes the airplane's flies normally, seconds later it will seem unstable and want to pitch up or down with no outside force on my part. They're not violent, but it makes it uncomfortable for anyone else in there. It's like the airflow over the ruddervators has changed momentarily.

How do you approach and land regarding speed, flaps settings, and power reduction to nail those greasers?

It's really a different animal when compared to the A36.

**Nothing is dangerous or unsafe, I just really try to be smooth and have fitness when it comes to flying. I'll let someone else be "Capn Yank-n-Bank."

 

[Pilawt]

I had a K35 for five years. I thought it had wonderful control harmony, never anything unexpected.

 

[brian]]

What year?

Wind shear can make my 35 pitch up or down- more than a 172. It's like the 2500# aircraft feels like a DA20 sometimes. The only time i really notice is when pushing over after a climb. After the trim is initially set, speed increases a lot and the nose pitches up for a climb.

I fly the numbers in the pattern pretty much. Ok, I'm a little lazy: drop gear then 90 mph downwind, 80 mph base. Drop flaps and a little over 70 aver the fence. Usually have a little pitch up and touch somewhere under 65 mph.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

I've not had anything unusual or unexpected in pitch....compared with my prior plane PA32.

120 mph approach...... with 10 deg of flaps and gear down at FAF.

100 mph short final....and 80 over the fence and 20 or full flaps.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

It's a 1979. I agree with the DA20 comparison at times.

You all fly slower patterns that I do. I'm 90kts over the fence and don't rollout the power until I'm in the round-out.

 

[Henning]

Do you find your v-tail to be really sensitive in pitch in certain flight regimes?

Sometimes the airplane's flies normally, seconds later it will seem unstable and want to pitch up or down with no outside force on my part. They're not violent, but it makes it uncomfortable for anyone else in there. It's like the airflow over the ruddervators has changed momentarily.

How do you approach and land regarding speed, flaps settings, and power reduction to nail those greasers?

It's really a different animal when compared to the A36.

**Nothing is dangerous or unsafe, I just really try to be smooth and have fitness when it comes to flying. I'll let someone else be "Capn Yank-n-Bank."

What kind of slack is in the trim tab? How is the condition of all the control mechanism? There has been more than one older Bonanza I did purchases on for buyers that needed work to tighten things up for sale. Control surface balances are run very close to critical balance limits, that's what gives them the fine, light, powerful handling. They don't really brook any slack in the system well. They last a long time and are solidly designed, and easy to overhaul, and every 40 years as typical to need an IRAN isn't too bad.

 

[brian]]

My bonanza owning instructor had me dropping gear at 120 mph and driving it onto the runway. I like him, but I didn't accept that advice.

My DPE and ex military pilot instructor said fly it like they designed it. He grew up with old bonanzas. Amazing how slow they fly controllably. Hard sell for a newbie like me, but it finally sunk in. Glad I trained with him as the old bo was hiding the reality my landings were becoming very sloppy.

(Even had me do a power on stall - per the FAA guidelines - not as scary as everyone says. Man those tips stick way up in the skua!)

Say, you have one of the last 35s made... Nice!

 

[JHW]

You're landing too fast

 

[Henning]

The key advantage a Beech gives you nailing your landings is the indexed trim indicator. Find your flap appropriately configured trim settings for your 1.2,1.3,(full flap)1.5 (approach flap) speeds at various weights, and the corresponding trim indexes to give you those speeds. If you have trim indexes for max gross and solo minimum fuel weights, you can safely interpolate between.

The beauty of a Bonanza is it wants to make a good landing, you just have to give it the right set up. With a Bo you can just dump in the flaps, set the trim for speed and the power to make the glide slope, and it will drive on in that attitude quite well, and with just a little two ingr pull right at the bottom to make the stall warning go off as you cross the threshold and just hold that, it will grease on for you every time.

Trim is what allows the plane to automatically regulate your kinetic energy,mand the index allows you to accurately spot the trim at the beginning of configuration change to final so you don't have to fight it to find it giving a better approach and landing.

 

[Henning]

My bonanza owning instructor had me dropping gear at 120 mph and driving it onto the runway. I like him, but I didn't accept that advice.

My DPE and ex military pilot instructor said fly it like they designed it. He grew up with old bonanzas. Amazing how slow they fly controllably. Hard sell for a newbie like me, but it finally sunk in. Glad I trained with him as the old bo was hiding the reality my landings were becoming very sloppy.

(Even had me do a power on stall - per the FAA guidelines - not as scary as everyone says. Man those tips stick way up in the skua!)

Say, you have one of the last 35s made... Nice!

That is the beauty of the Bonanza, it handles as powerfully and positively slow as fast. The cost is the stall break, but it is well announced before it arrives.

 

[brian]]

That is the beauty of the Bonanza, it handles as powerfully and positively slow as fast. The cost is the stall break, but it is well announced before it arrives.

Yea, about that stall....

First time I thought I had the ball centered. The instantaneous 35 degree left wing drop said otherwise. Definitely not a DA20 on the other side of a stall....

 

[GLMS_NC]

Do you find your v-tail to be really sensitive in pitch in certain flight regimes?

Sometimes the airplane's flies normally, seconds later it will seem unstable and want to pitch up or down with no outside force on my part. They're not violent, but it makes it uncomfortable for anyone else in there. It's like the airflow over the ruddervators has changed momentarily.

How do you approach and land regarding speed, flaps settings, and power reduction to nail those greasers?

It's really a different animal when compared to the A36.

**Nothing is dangerous or unsafe, I just really try to be smooth and have fitness when it comes to flying. I'll let someone else be "Capn Yank-n-Bank."

If properly rigged, not sensitive and quite easy to fly and land. Very predictable airframe and does well in cross winds too.

Approaches - fly it by the numbers in the POH and you will nail, make that grease, every landing. A36 much more affected by cross winds than the V.

 

[Henning]

Yea, about that stall....

First time I thought I had the ball centered. The instantaneous 35 degree left wing drop said otherwise. Definitely not a DA20 on the other side of a stall....

Yep, it's a trade off, but seriously, have you ever accidentally stalled, or do you feel it coming? I never found the stall characteristics of a Beech significant factor in flying them because I only got fully stalled or did Vmc rolls on purpose.

 

[Henning]

Behind the panel there is a big cast hinge set that supports the yoke shaft and allows it that smooth solidness. Those pins and bearings wear with time, and slack in there can bounce the controls as the plane bounces in turbulence. It's not that big of a deal to rebuild them.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Kirk....it could be something as simple as a sticky trim/pitch spring....that periodically readjusts. This spring keeps tension on the trim & pitch cables in the tail...if a coil sticks and pops now and again it could produce the sensation you're describing.

I've not had this....but was investigating an slow oscillation in pitch and had a look at my spring.

 

[brian]]

Had a thought this morning: is the pitch change that is of concern when you are slowing down - say to enter the pattern?

I have a really low gear/flap speed: 100MPH. When I enter the pattern, I like to be near 100MPH so when I'm ready to drop the gear, i don't have to pitch up to slow down. This results in a change in pitch attitude just as I'm entering the pattern. Not much of one, but enough that my height and the old bench style seating I have requires me to sometimes adjust my posture a bit. I don't really notice it much but it is there enough that an ATP fiend of mine commented that I would transition nicely to a tailwheel airplane...

 

[SCCutler]

I don't find the Bo to be particularly sensitive in pitch - but if I was accustomed to flying, say, a Mooney or any number of Cessnas (Mr. 210, I'm looking at you here...), I would think the Bo was hyper-sensitive in pitch. It isn't, but what it is, is very smooth and light on the controls.

Henning's comments above, regarding trim, are right on target. Trimmed right, you aren't going to be needing to make much in the way of pitch control movements anyway. Fingertips.

You want a plane that is *very* sensitive in pitch, fly a Cardinal; great harmony, but if you try to horse it, you'll be describing sine waves over the runway and hoping the bottom doesn't break something. Treat it right, and negative stress.

And, I agree: 90 knots over the fence is way faster than I would ever use (in my V35A); unless, of course, I was landing 2,000' down a long runway on purpose. I aim for 70-ish over the fence, sometimes less, depending upon the field.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

I'm not going to quote everyone, but I've read them all.

I took the airplane out for a trip today and back. I guess I was putting too much of a comparison between it and the A36. The flight today went as smooth as butter. I slowed down the final approach and greased them both on. I still leave partial power in until the flare and it seems to work well for now until I find something better. It's definitely a different airplane.

The pitch sensitivity was more noticeable when I was in the climb and leveling off from a climb. Im certain I was causing the issue myself. I would slowly push it over, retrimming as I did, and believe the yoke would get stuck and jump on me. I've smoothed everything out.

About the only positive transfer from the A36 was the internal scan and flow. Then again, the gear and flap handles are opposite in the two. You can that I'm really careful about which one I'm grabbing.

I'm starting to warm up to it more. It sure climbs a hell of a lot better than that other pig.

On another note, I heard some poor guy get a phone number for a possible pilot deviation. He busted his altitude and admitted it... Honesty is good and all...

 

[Blueangel]

Check the rigging it may be off hence the difference in controls. A good Beech A&P has the rigging tools to check the flight controls and adjust if necessary.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

Check the rigging it may be off hence the difference in controls. A good Beech A&P has the rigging tools to check the flight controls and adjust if necessary.

There is a mechanic on the field that works on both Bonanzas that I use. He has a lot of King Air work as well. I'm not sure if he's been specifically trained on Beechcraft, but he seems to do a pretty good job for now. Not a big fan of his attitude.

The trim tabs on the V35 have no slack in them and the flight controls feel great. The A36's trim tabs need to be tightened, or whatever needs to be done. The flight controls on that one seem to be spot on. I do have a list of things I would like to be looked at when they go in for annual, though.

I'd like to think he was as good as this guy: http://youtu.be/5QhhlmcVS1U

In a perfect world, I would have A&P's only work on aircraft in which they are trained.