Help with Route Review around busy San Francisco bay area

[shawjames]

I am a new private pilot, and I am planning to try a first flight to a new area that is busier then I've tried before. The flight will be on a clear, calm day. I will take off from KRHV and land at KSQL. My planned route will be KRHV > TEBIJ > OSI > KSQL

My communications plan will be to request a West departure from KRHV with a class C transition. Just after wheels up, I will request frequency change and contact SJC who should be expecting me. I'll expect SJC to clear me directly over the airport and at 2500+ to clear NUQ class D. I will fly straight toward OSI.

Once clear of Charlie, I will get ATIS from SQL and then contact SQL tower. I believe 30 is usually active, and I would expect to get a straight in or left base landing clearance. If runway 12, I would expect a left downwind entry.

How does my plan sound? Any input or suggestions I should consider?

 

[Palmpilot]

If you let Reid-Hillview Tower know before takeoff that you want to transition through SJC airspace, they will hand you off to San Jose Tower without you having to request a frequency change. Make sure you don't cross the freeway until you are in contact with San Jose Tower. From there, my guess is that San Jose will hand you off to Moffett Tower, who will hand you off to Palo Alto Tower, who will hand you off to San Carlos Tower, and that you will be expected to follow Highway 101 to San Carlos. San Jose Tower and Moffett Tower will tell you what altitude they want you at. Make sure you're below 1500 feet north of the Dumbarton Bridge, because you don't want to bust the class B airspace.

 

[MAKG1]

TEBIJ?

I think you'll have a much easier time if you leave the GPS alone and fly visually.

San Jose will probably want you to cross midfield. Then follow 101 like Richard said.

This route has a lot of handoffs, but it sure beats climbing to 3500 10 miles out of your way just to fly over OSI.

Call SQL ATIS on your cell phone before engine start. This is a short flight and can have a lot of traffic.

 

[shawjames]

Great call on getting ATIS by phone before engine start, thank you for that.

Okay, yes I just use the approximate route for planning to visualize the flight. So maybe this route would be closer to actual:

https://skyvector.com/?ll=37.353566...54&chart=301&zoom=1&fpl= KRHV FAITH KSJC KSQL

Depart RHV on about 320 course (east of 680) until cleared into SJC, expect to cross mid-field and then turn direct to SQL following 101.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

FYI, SQL departure instructions are complicated:
http://www.bayareaflyinglessons.com/Free_Files/Airport_Departure_and_Arrival_Procedures.pdf
https://whispertrack.com/airports/KSQL.pdf

Review these, leaving SQL they were so long my fancy radio thought I had a stuck mic and cut off my readback.

 

[shawjames]

While on the topic, someday I'd like to fly a loop around the bay area. Would be a fun flight and a great sightseeing for passengers.

Here is my first draft of a route.

https://skyvector.com/?ll=37.852302482015716,-122.41584777478295&chart=301&zoom=1&fpl=N0180A040 KRHV FAITH EDDYY VPCRY KHAF VPPAC SAU VPGGF SUXPY MYBLY KRHV

Basically, fly around the bay keeping under SFO Bravo and clear of Oakland Charlie. The departure would be the same as above with the SJC transition. I'd expect to fly at 3500 for most of the flight except at about 1600 near the golden gate to drop below that 2100 Bravo shelf.


Any comments or suggestions on this route?

Edit: Looks like there is route information here, I'll check that out.
http://sjflight.com/BayTour.htm

 

[MAKG1]

Go THROUGH the Class B. It's a lot easier than you think, substantially easier than trying to dodge it.

Just get clearance before entering, and follow any heading or altitude restrictions (usually, they just want you southwest of 101). It's pretty easy. VPCRY is a very easy entry point.

What you're doing is called a "bay tour," and if you ask Reid Tower for it, they will assume you need flight following and a Class B transition, returning to Reid.

Your route is vulnerable to marine layer. Half Moon Bay weather sucks all the time this time of year, and staying below Class B on that side will put you in the clouds or far out over water (tops are usually around 2500).

 

[shawjames]

Go THROUGH the Class B. It's a lot easier than you think, substantially easier than trying to dodge it.

Okay, thank you for the advice. I will make this my plan and be sure the sky is clear.

 

[noahfong]

Hello. I sense that you want to avoid talking with ATC as much as possible. I get it and it's fine. Plus, your friends may be asking all kinds of questions, etc., which is distracting. (Hate to miss a call and all that...BTDT.)

Here are my thoughts....

Your general route is fine. Great tour of the bay, etc. The biggest thing I would get rid of is all the GPS waypoints. Not sure if they're there so that you can draw the route on Skyvector or not, but the last thing you want to do when giving a tour is to have to follow the magenta line. Friends will be wanting to ask questions, take selfies, etc. Do yourself a favor and abandon them for visual waypoints.

For example, when departing RHV and cleared into C, turn west and overfly SJC midfield (forget this over the VOR thing - chances are, they will want you crossing mid-field anyway). Then continue on course until crossing HWY 280. Then follow 280 NW-bound until Crystal Springs Reservoir. Then turn west to overfly HAF. Drop down to 1400 and follow the coastline to the GGB. (Forget staying high and finding VPPAC). Just stay at 1400 (you'll also be under the Oakland C and lower is better for sightseeing) until ready to go back. Then head for the Caldecott, climbing back to at least 2500 to clear the hills. Head towards San Leandro Reservoir and then towards Mission Peak. When over the Sunol grade, then get west of the hills and back towards RHV.

Put yourself on a route where you can identify everything you need visually. It will be much easier to stay out of trouble. You're going through this much trouble to not talk to ATC. Why have to follow the magenta line as well?

 

[Palmpilot]

Hello. I sense that you want to avoid talking with ATC as much as possible...

Really? Both of the routes he's posted start with a class C transition.

...Drop down to 1400 and follow the coastline to the GGB...

The weather doesn't always allow that this time of year.

 

[MAKG1]

Noah, I suspect it's just the usual Class B fear the local instructors put in just about every student pilot. I wish I understood why they did that. SFO Class B controllers are extremely helpful, and seem to give out clearances like candy, as long as you aren't trying to cross the Bay. Sometimes without even being asked.

The important thing is, to have a plan in case there is too much workload and they tell you to remain clear.

It's pretty cool to pass over an A380. BTDT. Dang, those things are big.

 

[Palmpilot]

Here is my first draft of a route.

https://skyvector.com/?ll=37.852302482015716,-122.41584777478295&chart=301&zoom=1&fpl=N0180A040 KRHV FAITH EDDYY VPCRY KHAF VPPAC SAU VPGGF SUXPY MYBLY KRHV

I assume that route is just an approximation for illustration purposes, but I'll just mention that one thing I'm not comfortable with is flying less than a mile outside a class B ring, because even if your GPS were perfectly accurate, I don't know how precise ATC's radar display is.

 

[MAKG1]

I assume that route is just an approximation for illustration purposes, but I'll just mention that one thing I'm not comfortable with is flying less than a mile outside a class B ring, because even if your GPS were perfectly accurate, I don't know how precise ATC's radar display is.

I will on THAT route. Not in general.

1400 feet just offshore. If you go much further, you won't make the cliff tops if your engine gives up, and the surf is not survivable. It's rocky. Further out, the water is VERY cold and has rip currents.

There is a few-mile section where there are no survivable emergency landing sites, along Devil's Slide (that's the section of coastline with the 2100 foot floor abutting the surface area).

 

[noahfong]

Noah, I suspect it's just the usual Class B fear the local instructors put in just about every student pilot. I wish I understood why they did that. SFO Class B controllers are extremely helpful, and seem to give out clearances like candy, as long as you aren't trying to cross the Bay. Sometimes without even being asked.

The important thing is, to have a plan in case there is too much workload and they tell you to remain clear.

It's pretty cool to pass over an A380. BTDT. Dang, those things are big.

Maybe or maybe not. I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt. He says he's a new pilot and new to a busy environment. I understand he wants to do a "loop" for some friends. So, think for a minute... new pilot, busy airspace, gaggle of friends sightseeing. It's understandable that one would want to minimize ATC workload. And, his route can do just that.

I also learned to fly out of PAO. I used to fly trafficwatch in the Bay Area. Communicating with ATC and transiting Charlie and Bravo are nothing to me. But I wouldn't pressure anyone to transition Bravo if there is an alternate route available to them that is better suited. And I didn't think there is nothing wrong with his route except dependency on GPS waypoints.

 

[Palmpilot]

I will on THAT route. Not in general.

1400 feet just offshore. If you go much further, you won't make the cliff tops if your engine gives up, and the surf is not survivable. It's rocky. Further out, the water is VERY cold and has rip currents.

There is a few-mile section where there are no survivable emergency landing sites, along Devil's Slide (that's the section of coastline with the 2100 foot floor abutting the surface area).

I make the same exception you do, for the same reasons. I was thinking mainly about other locations along his plotted course lines.

 

[shawjames]

You're going through this much trouble to not talk to ATC. Why have to follow the magenta line as well?

I can pick out some visual points, but I am not familiar with them yet. I would not follow the exact route, just have it in my gps for reference... if I was right of course, for example, I could be close to busting I was trying to avoid.

My plan is to come up with a route that I like and am comfortable with BEFORE taking any passengers. Could require a few solo runs, which would be totally fine!

My aversion to Bravo was more to limit how many "firsts" I'll have in the initial flight to limit my workload.

Maybe I will do a flight to SQL first to experience the Charlie transition. Then maybe another flight through part of Bravo to experience that. Baby steps!

 

[shawjames]

I found a complete video of a bay tour. Looks like they went under the Bravo shelf near the Golden Gate bridge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdBXVX2IfUg

 

[MAKG1]

I found a complete video of a bay tour. Looks like they went under the Bravo shelf near the Golden Gate bridge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdBXVX2IfUg

Hehe. I know that exact airplane. It's UUUUGGGGLLLYYYY, and the oil temp likes to run just a little below redline at cruise, even with the cowl flaps hanging open. No way on God's green earth I'd take it over water at low altitude. That oil temp gauge is your earliest warning about a pending engine problem.

That's leaving from Palo Alto. Not too different if you overfly that field (in reverse to his track).

And notice he did it in the winter. In summer, that route is badly clouded. He also seems to have cut his VFR cloud clearances a bit close going into Oakland.

If it makes you rest easier, I can often be talked into riding right seat for a free bay tour, even if I've done that route many times.

 

[NOVA_Jim]

Flew this airspace for the first time this week, twice. First time flying in Sf. On Monday, flew a "bay tour" departure from RHV clockwise around the bay to depart up the coast north. NorCal approach exceeded my expectations and was very helpful. They asked a 777 departing west out of SFO to hold their altitude until they passed me. Just tell ground you want the "bay tour" and tell them your destination, and they will put you in the system. Prepare by Google mapping major highway names (eg so you can "remain west of the Bayshore fwy"). If they give a landmark you don't understand, ask. Today coming into HWD the controller asked me to hold over "the toll plaza". Told her I was unfamiliar but would look for it; she followed up quickly by asking me more directly to turn a 360 for traffic.

Today I flew counterclockwise from HWD, ending with a relatively low approach to maneuver around Alcatraz due to clouds. Decided I couldn't make it past the golden gate as planned, flipped a 180 around Alcatraz and headed back around the east bay. ATC very accommodating... Just ask before you do something that may have implications in the system.

 

[noahfong]

I can pick out some visual points, but I am not familiar with them yet. I would not follow the exact route, just have it in my gps for reference... if I was right of course, for example, I could be close to busting I was trying to avoid.

You will not regret it by becoming familiar with some visual checkpoints. Would make for a more enjoyable flight.

My plan is to come up with a route that I like and am comfortable with BEFORE taking any passengers. Could require a few solo runs, which would be totally fine!

Sounds good. The route you sketched out is actually pretty good. Is pretty scenic and should show well. It is a route I would consider taking friends up on if I flew from RHV. The only thing I would do differently is to avoid the Oakland hills by going through OAK C.

My aversion to Bravo was more to limit how many "firsts" I'll have in the initial flight to limit my workload.

There is no reason to go into bravo just for bravo's sake. I think it is more scenic to go towards HAF and fly up the coast than to transition along the bayshore (101). But, others are right. You may find the coast "socked in" (which you may not see until you are higher than the hills). So, have some frequencies handy: norcal (135.65 for around the crystal springs area), SFO (120.5), SQL (119.0).

For example, suppose you travel up to crystal springs and "OMG! HAF is all fogged in! Whadoido?" You can circle and call up norcal, telling them you are holding over crystal springs and request B transition NWB. Chances are, here's what will happen: If you want to go high (3500 and above) you will stay with norcal and they will approve the transition. If you want to go low (2000 and below) they will hand you off to SFO and they will approve you (except when the winds are such that SFO is launching a/c from rwys 19). If you don't know the freqs or they don't work, call up SQL for help.

Maybe I will do a flight to SQL first to experience the Charlie transition. Then maybe another flight through part of Bravo to experience that. Baby steps!

Sure! Have a good flight.