Help me understand BasicMed and and conditions other than the "big three" for a new pilot.

Discussion in 'Medical Topics' started by NewPilot, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. NewPilot

    NewPilot Guest

    Hi There,

    I am someone who has been wanting to be a pilot for years.

    I have a couple chronic health conditions that, previously, research has indicated I will need to get an SI for. They're not conditions that I would consider any flying risk. The FAA just has a long list of things they won't let AMEs issue for.

    I just really don't want to go through the wringer of the SI process. Everything I've read about it is frustration, waiting, etc...

    The language surrounding the BasicMed rule is confusing. They keep talking about neuro/cardio/mental as the "Three SI conditions".

    Is this true ONLY for pilots with a previous medical? Or does this mean that absent of these three conditions, an AME can issue for other previous "SI conditions" after BasicMed goes into effect? That would be fantastic as that means I could fly.

    Or, do these new rules basically change nothing for new pilots?

    Thank you very much in advance for insight.
     
  2. somorris

    somorris Pattern Altitude

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    Hi NewPilot.

    The new rule says you have to have had a medical within the past 10 years in order to be eligible. That probably means either 1) you will have to jump through all the hoops one time in order to pass that first medical, or 2) you should just go Sport Pilot. If I were in your shoes, I would probably go Sport Pilot and hope the new rule changes in the future. You can probably go Sport Pilot right now.
     
  3. simtech

    simtech Pattern Altitude

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    That's it, for the brand new pilot with never a medical or an old pilot who has not held a medical in the past 10 years there is no change. Both types will need to obtain a 3rd class medical with an AME one time.
     
  4. RotorDude

    RotorDude Pattern Altitude

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    Besides Sport class, you can also go fly gliders, and get your private pilot glider certificate. All you need to do for that is attest that you don't have any health issue that could affect your ability to fly safely.
     
  5. John221us

    John221us En-Route PoA Supporter

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    It is a break, even for new pilots, because once you have the SI(s), you won't need to continuously maintain them, which can be expensive (I have heard). It becomes a one time task to prove you are safe and then the new rules make your life easier.
     
  6. NewPilot

    NewPilot Guest

    I'd go sport pilot but no LSA options for training around me, and definitely no clubs that own an LSA. I'll just continue putting money into other hobbies instead of GA. Thanks for the information.
     
  7. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    You don't even have to do that anymore. The self-certification provision has been gone for a while. Gliders simply do not require medicals.
     
  8. Anon

    Anon Guest

    This is why we need to continue pushing for full medical reform and the removal of the first class medical. It's doing very little to help grow the pilot community and primarily protects the aging GA pilot population. I have taken today's announcement as an opportunity to remind AOPA that this still falls short and we should not be declaring victory, and I hope others will join me to help grow the GA community and remove barriers to entry.

    With the BasicMed system in place, the proposed self-certification infrastructure will be in place to support a full removal of the 3rd class medical in the event they'd like to make it mandatory instead of pushing for something like the pure DL-only sport pilot rule. Our incoming admistration has expressed an interest in removing regulations, so perhaps we have an even better shot than we did previously.
     
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  9. Anon

    Anon Guest

    Make that the third class medical, not first. It's early in the morning. Not a good time for proofreading or flying.
     
  10. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    If there are no LSAs available for training in your area, that doesn't mean you couldn't train in a different class of plane. You just would not be able to solo in a non LSA without a medical. You could train in a 172 for most of your training requirements and then travel to wherever LSA is available for transition training and solo. Another alternative would be to buy an LSA of your own for training. If you want it bad enough, you will make it happen. It's all about desire.
     
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  11. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Also forgetting to log in, since these do not look like posts that needed to be made anonymously. ;)
     
  12. Anon

    Anon Guest

    This attitude is part of what is keeping new pilots out of GA. As someone who listened to this and went this route, it made training for sport pilot very expensive and time consuming. Even after all the training, there are so few sport pilot DPEs (many FSDOs have none) and examiners that finding someone to administer the exam after all the extra time and expense was considerably more difficult than just calling up and hoping there would be an opening in the next few months. Did I want it bad enough? Sure. Did it need to be that difficult? No. This is not a cheap hobby nor one for people who aren't willing to work at it. However, that doesn't mean we need to make things even more difficult in terms of time and money than the hobby itself already is if we'd like to keep trying to grow GA.

    NewPilot, I hope you will reach out to AOPA, EAA, and the friends of GA in congress to let them know that there are people still interested in further medical reform. I would also suggest asking around local airports to see if anyone knows a CFI who offers tailwheel training out of a Champ or Cub (which can also be LSA) and would take on a sport pilot student. These often don't show up when searching for flight schools or clubs online and require a little more initial legwork, but there's no substitute for asking around. Plus, training with a CFI (and not a CFI-S) means your training hours will count toward PP if there ever is the opportunity for you to upgrade or are changes to the medical process in the future.
     
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  13. RotorDude

    RotorDude Pattern Altitude

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    Tell the FAA that, not me.
     
  14. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    What attitude? I'm not saying I like the system as it is now. I do wish it was easier for folks to enter GA. However, that is just not the reality we live in today or for the foreseeable future. If the OP wants a license, then he will need to pursue the SI process for a PPL or do some travel for the LSA. I was pointing out that the majority of his training could still be done locally in a 172 or similar which would significantly reduce the travel time and expense. The reality is that the OP will need to overcome some obstacles to make it happen, which he can do if he wants it bad enough to make the sacrifice.
     
  15. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    You're not signing anything, but according to 14 CFR 61.53(b) you cannot act as pilot in command or crewmember if you know (or has reason to know) of any medical condition that would make you unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.
     
  16. Art VanDelay

    Art VanDelay Pattern Altitude

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    Then start your own
     
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  17. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Yes, it does say that, but it is wrong. There used to be a requirement that an applicant for the glider rating make such a certification. It's been gone for decades. People use the term "self certification" just to mean evaluating yourself for flight (like we all are supposed to be doing medical or not), but such is not a "certification" (self or otherwise).
     
  18. Jeffythequick

    Jeffythequick Pre-takeoff checklist

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    In reading the 77 page document at https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/final_rule_faa_2016_9157.pdf

    I see that, in section IX:

    "Section 2307(e)(1) of FESSA states that an individual who has qualified for the third-class medical certificate exemption under subsection (a) of section 2307 and is seeking to serve as a PIC of a covered aircraft shall be required to have completed the process for obtaining an Authorization for Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate if that person has any of the following: (1) a mental health disorder; (2) a neurological disorder; or a (3) cardiovascular condition."
    Soooo... if you don't have one of those 3, the Doctor's note is good enough, under Section VI. See Section VI, Section C.3:
    "The FAA recognizes that there are many thousands of diagnosable medical conditions, as well as innumerable medical treatments and medications. Many conditions, treatments, or medications are unlikely to impact a person’s ability to safely operate an aircraft. However, there are numerous conditions, treatments, and medications that are aviation safety risks. Potential adverse effects may result from sudden incapacitation (e.g., epilepsy, coronary artery disease, implantable cardioverter-defibrillators, etc.) or reduced cognitive, mental or physical abilities (e.g., visual impairments, neurological diseases, psychiatric diseases, diabetes or other metabolic diseases, sedative-hypnotic medications, etc.). Each of these, independently or in combination, can adversely affect the pilot’s ability to safely perform pilot duties and are a hazard to the national air space. Additionally, the adverse effects of many medical conditions and medications are exaggerated under typical flight conditions, including reduced air pressure, available oxygen,or acceleration forces. Pilots should consult with their physician or other medical care provider for care and treatment of their conditions, but also for guidance on the impact their conditions may have on flight safety. Pilots, in discussion with their physician/medical care provider, should also consult available aeromedical resources on the flight hazards associated with medical conditions/ medications. The Do not Issue/Do not Fly list (www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/pharm/dni_dnf/) is readily available in the AME Guide on the FAA website. Chapter 8 of the FAA’s Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM 8-1-1) also addresses medical factors for pilots. Additional resources include the FAA’s AME Guide, other FAA flight safety websites, and the websites of non-profit and not-for-profit general aviation stakeholders."
    Using that, I can only see that if you had an SI, and don't fall into one of the 3 categories, you're good to go, and if you are coming up for the first time with a previously SI warranted condition (in my case, Insulin Dependent Diabetes), you talk to your doctor and take the 22 point checklist in Section VIII.

    As always, the pilot must self-certify that they are in a condition to safely operate the aircraft. See Section VI.5.

    In reading this, one of the things I have done is just read what it says, and if I have a question on it (I did.... mainly on the statement about "if you used to have an SI, you don't need it anymore," and made sure the words of the document answer the question I have, and not read into the words for my hoped for answer. I am very willing to have contradicting information, but please cite the words or section of the document listed above (or other current FAR) for that opposing view.



    CRAP!!! I found it... in section IV.C, where you have to have an FAA Medical...

    As Emily Litella said...
    Never Mind...
    [​IMG]

    I do like this part though...
    "If a pilot, while using this rule, is diagnosed with a condition that would have, in the past, required the pilot to be considered for a special issuance medical certificate, but is not one of the specified conditions described in FESSA, then that pilot may continue to exercise the privileges of this rule so long as all other requirements of section 2307 of FESSA are met."​

    So, what I'd recommend is get your kids to the AME now, so that they'll be covered forever.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  19. RotorDude

    RotorDude Pattern Altitude

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    Here it says that glider pilots must "certify" to be safe for flight at the nearest FSDO. Are you saying it's no longer done? I know that I was asked to show my medical to the DPE for the glider add-on, just recently.
     
  20. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That's exactly what I'm saying. You used to have to do it to get your student pilot certificate in the glider. Now it's not part of the game.
     
  21. RotorDude

    RotorDude Pattern Altitude

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    So what is the requirement for add-on? Was my DPE correct in asking for my medical?
     
  22. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    He could not solo the 172 without a medical, could he?
     
  23. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    No he could not solo in a 172 without a medical. He could finish all of his training requirements except solo in the 172 and then travel to wherever LSA is available for transition training and to complete solo requirements.
     
  24. bbchien

    bbchien Final Approach

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    Here it is.....
     

    Attached Files:

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  25. NewPilot

    NewPilot Guest

    Thanks for the document. New pilots are completely ignored it seems, the rules don't even address them clearly. It is clear to me now legally that there's no change to the third class medical requirements, only that those people who have already had one can fall under these rules.

    Doesn't really seem like medical reform at all. The SI process will still be awful and broken and a major barrier and deterrence to new pilots who have medical conditions.

    I'm not optimistic about further reform. But I'm similarly not optimistic about GA in general. To a lot of people of my age, flying a plane seems like a relic of a bygone age. Sad that some of the ones who do get interested are turned away by government bureaucracy.

    But once again, thanks for the help everyone, and enjoy flying.
     
  26. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Seemed pretty clear to me on reading the rule (I didn't even read the premable at first, went right to the published regulation). But glad you understand now.
    I'll agree with the second part. However, the first part downplays the significant change. Once you have gone through the medical hoop once, you're free of it. This means that you don't have to renew any SIs you do have (which can come at a substantial price even though there is little indication that once most SIs are issued there is much chance of a relapse). It also means any new conditions that might have required a SI, are now just an issue between you and your personal physician. The FAA is now OUT OF THE LOOP.
     
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  27. bbchien

    bbchien Final Approach

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    Except if you develop a condition on the list of three.

    And for the OP: New pilots have to win a medical at least ONCE.
     
  28. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Three is better that twelve :)
     
  29. Unit74

    Unit74 En-Route

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    That is so subjective it's hard to swallow! "Yes, jury, I believed I was fully capable and able to operate in a safe manner"
     
  30. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    That's how it is now, no change.
     
  31. bbchien

    bbchien Final Approach

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    It's actually Nine, if you look at the legislation, and the prior 15 are in part 67 so they are operational and still apply to the pilot.

    If you look at the structure of the bill part 67 still applies to airmen but there is no enforcement save for the legislated nine conditions. However, make no mistake, the FAA will testify against the signoff doc for one of the FIFTEEN GROUNDING conditions, when he is hauled into court. There isn't a plaintff's attorney in the country that would miss that opportunity to collect big $$s from the doc.

    Lastly, you should see what some pilots are going to try to push by their docs. One guy has five years on antidepressives, Atrial fibrillation, and no SI, waiting for this reform, writes that he's just going to ignore those items. When I pointed out the checklist and that he would be lying ON RECORD to do that (e.g, not in compliance), I also pointed out that his "big University" system doc can see all of that and he would have to persuade his primary to sign. Its going to be a tough sell to his doc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017