Help me get over stall anxiety

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by abqtj, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. Stewartb

    Stewartb En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    3,299
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    Getting good at stalls is a total waste. Use the stall to get good at keeping the airplane flying. Get good at that and you'll never stall an airplane unintentionally.
     
  2. N659HB

    N659HB Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    891
    Location:
    SC sandhills
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    No. 1 son
    To stall or not to stall, that is the question...

    Sorry old Bard for the paraphrasing, but IMHO it's the accelerated stall that needs recovery practice, not straight and level.
     
  3. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,093
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoCal RV Flyer
    Definitely. If I overshoot final, my instinct is always to dive a little/power up for more airspeed, and use primarily bank angle (with minimal rudder) to realign. Not crazy bank angle, mind you...just enough to get the job done. My instructor really drilled into me that once on base, you are alternately looking at two things....airspeed, runway, airspeed, runway, airspeed, runway. (And other planes that might be in the way. :eek:) For a massive overshoot? Best to take another lap of the pattern.
     
    Ryanb likes this.
  4. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    12,896
    Location:
    California central coast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MAKG
    That's not an accelerated stall. It's a skidding stall.

    An accelerated stall is when you pull some G's at too low a speed. Not what happens on the base to final spin. At 1.3*Vs0, it would take a 1.6 G (about 50 deg bank when level) turn to have an accelerated stall. Most people fly even faster than that; it's only 61 knots (indicated) in a 172.

    The base to final spin happens when someone tries to tighten a turn with excess rudder, and gets slow.
     
  5. N659HB

    N659HB Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    891
    Location:
    SC sandhills
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    No. 1 son
    Well, I stand corrected. Who says one can't learn anything useful on PoA? :rolleyes:

    And I won't be practicing any of those in the near future. ;)
     
  6. DFH65

    DFH65 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,239
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DFH65
    What are you flying? 172 152? If your instructors up to it stall it and just let go of everything and see what happens. You might be surprised.
     
  7. abqtj

    abqtj Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    148
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    abqtj
    Thanks all for the replies and advice (well most of you :D )

    I'm training in a 172.
     
  8. 3 in the green

    3 in the green Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2011
    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    KAJO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    3 in the green
    Once you do get some stall practice, go up and do some spins/upset recovery in a machine that breaks a bit more "briskly" than a 172. It'll give you so much confidence, and you might even get hooked and want to get into acro...
     
  9. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    12,687
    Location:
    Behind you!
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    Classic, no. Over hyped by some CFI like the boogie man, yes

    resulting in folks shooting approaches fast enough in their 172s that it would make a F-104 blush.
     
  10. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Messages:
    12,842
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fearless Tower
    A base to final stall can happen either way. Just depends on how the pilot tries to correct the overshoot.
     
  11. Zeldman

    Zeldman En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    4,244
    Location:
    NM or AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    Ok, someone has to say it......

     
  12. Stewartb

    Stewartb En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    3,299
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    For the OP, here's a video that's a bit advanced for you but will help make sense of the mechanics of your flight controls.

     
  13. George Mohr

    George Mohr Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2016
    Messages:
    129
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Gmohr
    This is an outstanding video to understand the effect of coordination on stall behavior. Not enough folks fully get the affect that aileron input, or a dropping wing, has on overall AoA.
     
  14. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    5,749
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    there's a video out there that I can't find. I 'think' it was from dick rochefort but I could be wrong. he's sitting in his office with a little plane explaining in detail the base to final stall/spin. it's a great video. if anyone knows the one I'm talking about, please post it. thx.
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  15. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    5,749
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    well fk me, it wasn't Rochfort and it was driving me nutz looking for it but I finally found it. also, it doesn't have too much to do with the OP's post, but still a great video and worth sharing (and watching and re-watching).

     
    denverpilot and SoCal RV Flyer like this.
  16. abqtj

    abqtj Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    148
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    abqtj
    Got back on the horse today, did some stalls and didn't do TOO terrible with them. One I had to ask my CFI to help out because I was screwing up the recovery, but that's what he's there for, right?
     
    denverpilot and WannFly like this.
  17. WannFly

    WannFly Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    944
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    WannaFly
    some good videos showing progress for someone with similar anxiety as yours (and me). its great to see him solo at the end of it.. gives me hope. https://www.youtube.com/user/ronthecompsci/videos

    <rant> my school wont let me record my lessons because some moron did recording of his lessons and put it on a public forum without approval from CFI/School </end of rant>
     
  18. George Mohr

    George Mohr Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2016
    Messages:
    129
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Gmohr
    Keep doing them until they are a non-issue. And do a lot of slow flight, right on the verge of a stall. Do those with turns, climbs and descents until you are bored. :)
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  19. pburger

    pburger Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Paul B.
    GET OVER IT!!!

    There. Now go fly and have fun! Flying is supposed to be fun, not scary.:yes:
     
  20. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    5,749
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    ^^^ hard to argue with a burger
     
  21. abqtj

    abqtj Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    148
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    abqtj
    Video of my flight



    Stalls not until around the 12 min mark if you want to fast forward to where the CFI starts demo'ing stalls, mine start around the 16 min mark...and the times of everything are in the description

    Don't beat me up too much :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
    exncsurfer likes this.
  22. WannFly

    WannFly Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    944
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    WannaFly
    you looked like a fearless pro who does stall for breakfast. kudos
     
    denverpilot and abqtj like this.
  23. exncsurfer

    exncsurfer Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,268
    Location:
    NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    the artist formerly known as: jimbilly
    I like that camera mount position, you can see the instruments and outside in one shot, nice. If it was level it'd be even better.

    4th flight, yea, I wouldn't sweat apprehension with stalls, you'll get used to doing them. I was all over the place doing my first power off stalls, I was dropping wings, having the cfi save it. haha. After he demo'd a falling leaf and how to lift the wing with the rudder I got better and never had issues after that.
     
    abqtj likes this.
  24. abqtj

    abqtj Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    148
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    abqtj
    I gotta get it mounted more securely next time. Not sure if the cold or the maneuvers made the camera drop off the window. Also as for level, might be the fish-eye effect making it look off a little. I'll double-check that next week as well.


    Thanks, I felt incredibly more confident this flight vs my previous!
     
  25. mscard88

    mscard88 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    10,397
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Thing I noticed was your left hand not on the yoke. Realizing you obviously can stall it that way, I teach left hand on yoke and right hand on the throttle. This is to ensure you have full power during the recovery. Other than that, looked good.
     
  26. abqtj

    abqtj Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    148
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    abqtj
    Not sure when you mean in the vid, I fly left handed. Only time it's not is when the CFI had controls (usually). I do have a bad habit I'm working on of not keeping my right hand on the throttle though.
     
  27. mscard88

    mscard88 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    10,397
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    OK, maybe the CFI was doing the stall around 12:30 or so. Thought you were demonstrating it.
     
  28. abqtj

    abqtj Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    148
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    abqtj
    That's right, he demonstrated the first two stalls...about 16:50 was my first stall.
     
    mscard88 likes this.
  29. hotprops

    hotprops Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Messages:
    519
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    hotprops
    abqtj, you were doing a great job you will be fine. your instructor on the other hand not so much. i would usually never suggest you change instructors {ask Mully} but 23 minutes with that guy gave me a headache .
     
  30. Maui Cirrus CFII

    Maui Cirrus CFII Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    189
    Location:
    Maui Hawaii
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    AoA
    Learn about flying angle of attack. Takes all the fear out. See my threads.
     
  31. abqtj

    abqtj Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    148
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    abqtj
    I've seen your thread and watched the video. Painful to try and watch and understand what's going on with that dang LOUD music overpowering everything though.

    Thanks anyway I guess.
     
  32. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    5,749
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    I somewhat agree, although I didn't watch the full video, only the stall parts listed in the description. I wasn't thrilled with his style either but maybe I didn't give him enough time. as for u being nervous......it seems like you haven't gotten the mechanics of the stall down yet. once you do, you'll be far more comfortable (I think) than when you just don't really know what's going on or how to do the stall and recover. I think you're where you should be, and just keep plugging away, you'll get them down in no time.
     
    abqtj likes this.
  33. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,269
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    abqtj, you are going to look back at that video someday and marvel at how patient your instructor was with you on those first flights. We ALL did the same things you did, starting with going past the assigned heading and not correcting right away, climbing up 100' past your desired altitude, etc. I didn't see anything in your reaction to the stalls that would tell me that you're terrified of them. It is just something that isn't natural to you ...yet. You'll get used to it to the point of them being fun. One thing that we mountain flyers have that the flatlanders don't is the absence of a good horizon in order to keep that rivet on the nose across the horizon during steep turn training. Ours continually changes as you've probably already found out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
    abqtj likes this.
  34. yetti

    yetti Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Messages:
    439
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Yetti
    Because teaching people to stall is exactly the wrong thing to learn. Your instructor is saying once you hear the stall warning to keep pulling back. Which is exactly the wrong thing you want to do when you hear the stall warning for real. You are learning the wrong muscle memory. They should be teaching you to "push down". When the engine quits. Push down. When the trim is set wrong on take off and the stall warning goes off. Push down.
     
  35. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,269
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    DPE's gotta see it on the check ride and that, to the break (unless you're in a Cherokee...don't get me started), I don't see away around NOT teaching it.
     
  36. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    12,896
    Location:
    California central coast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MAKG
    The purpose of teaching stalls is how to handle the aircraft when it has stalled, how to recover the stall, and how to keep it from becoming as spin. Students have to learn to suppress the urge to correct a dipping wing with the yoke, and use the rudder. You cannot do this in an unstalled aircraft. Stall avoidance is a different lesson, and is better done in slow flight.
     
  37. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    12,896
    Location:
    California central coast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MAKG
    I'll call any uncommanded pitch motion in a Cherokee a "break," no matter how small. They can be very subtle, and sometimes need a little extra yank to force it. And the stall speed gets real slow in a lightly loaded Archer.
     
  38. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,269
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    Okay..I'll explain. I agree with you and especially when the VSI reads down at 1,000 fpm but my DPE told me that I didn't stall the airplane because it didn't go "all the way to the break" so I did it again with the same results. Only time I about lost my temper on my check ride.
     
  39. FlySince9

    FlySince9 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,519
    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    HawkFlyer
    Uh, top rudder is not a skid, bottom rudder is... Just say'n... Either way, skid or slip, and a little loading and you're on your back... to the right or left depends on the slip/skid you chose to ruin your day...
     
  40. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    12,896
    Location:
    California central coast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MAKG
    You're right, but you won't "tighten" a turn with top rudder. Quite the opposite.