Hello everyone, looking to become a pilot!

[chiliphil1]

Hello everyone, first post.

If I'm in the wrong area or being repetitive please let me know, thank you.

I'm 30, I've spent most of my life as a mechanic, back in 2014 I was injured on the job and have lived on workers Comp for the last 2 1/2 years now. I've had 3 surgeries and am at the point of maximum medical improvement now. Im slightly disabled from the accident (approx 20%) in my left leg. The injury was to my left hip and only affects my ability to lift heavy objects, be on my feet all day, and restricts my ability to squat. Reading the FAA website it appears that this would not disqualify me from flight. I really hope that's the case.

Anyhow, I'm expecting a good settlement from my claim and with it I will have to train for a new career, many options are available but the only thing that appeals to me at all is my life long dream of flight. With the settlement I would be able to do it debt free and dedicate all of my time to the process as I won't have to work while learning.

I've going a local school which has me from zero to CPL within 6 months. Once I have that it's a guaranteed instructor job to build hours. Here's the thing though, I don't really have any interest in becoming a commercial pilot. I don't want to go to the regionals or the majors. I want to be an instructor. Possibly even do things like sight seeing tours or short hop charter flights.

I know I'll get flamed here but I was also thinking of perhaps trying to purchase a plane and start my own school at a local FBO. I have a friend who is in A&P with a major and he wants to go in as partners, he would take care of all maintenance and repair and I would teach while he learns to fly and then begins teaching as well. Worst case I would love a job just teaching somewhere, the school that I attend, a local college, etc. teaching is what I want to do.

I guess my question here is this. The school would be about $40-$50k all inclusive. PPL, CPL, instruments, multi engine, and CFI. I would complete the program with around 500 hours. Keeping in mind that I'm not taking a loan for this and thus I will be debt free, does this seem like a good career path?

Instruction mostly with no interest in airlines and ambitions to open my own school. I don't need to be rich but I need to survive. If I could make $30k and fly I would be completely happy with that. Is it doable?

Thank you very much for your time.

 

[RyanB]

Might be a good idea to work in the business for a little while before trying to jump out and start your own. Earning 30k/annually is definitely doable, but you'll need to be instructing in the right business outfit.

0 to CPL in 6 months is pretty adventurous, what type of school is this?

 

[WannFly]

I will other experienced people comment, but here is my 2 cents... check with am AME and make sure u would qualify for your medical, apart from ur accident there are a host of other things that can disqualify u, BEFORE filling up the medxpress form. Good luck and welcome to POA. O yeah... do u have an AOA?? too early for this one?

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[silver-surfer]

I'm new here as well but watch out on that "0 to CPL in 6 months claim". I'm looking into flight schools as well and have conversed with a few friends who have their PPL and one who is an airline pilot. They've all told me that if a school promises you a timeline, walk away. Just my inexperienced .02.

 

[RyanB]

I will other experienced people comment, but here is my 2 cents... check with an AME to make sure you'd qualify for a medical, BEFORE you begin the training. Apart from your accident, there's a host of other things that can disqualify you.

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FTFY. Otherwise, good advice.

 

[kayoh190]

I'm assuming they're having you instruct to get to the 500 hours once you have the CFI? Will you be paid for that, or is that something rolled into the quoted $40-50K?

Regardless, the other advice is good. Go get your medical knocked out.

 

[chiliphil1]

Might be a good idea to work in the business for a little while before trying to jump out and start your own. Earning 30k/annually is definitely doable, but you'll need to be instructing in the right business outfit.

0 to CPL in 6 months is pretty adventurous, what type of school is this?

Yeah it's just their advertised "possible" time line. I realize that it's ambitious and most likely not going to happen. Their "timeline" shows making it to 1500 hours and applying to a regional within 2 years. Again though, once I have the CFI I'll have what I was there for.

I will other experienced people comment, but here is my 2 cents... check with am AME and make sure u would qualify for your medical, apart from ur accident there are a host of other things that can disqualify u, BEFORE filling up the medxpress form. Good luck and welcome to POA. O yeah... do u have an AOA?? too early for this one?

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Alright, you got the new guy. What's an AOA?

 

[chiliphil1]

I'm assuming they're having you instruct to get to the 500 hours once you have the CFI? Will you be paid for that, or is that something rolled into the quoted $40-50K?

Regardless, the other advice is good. Go get your medical knocked out.

Yes, instructor until 1500 hours to apply to the regionals that they work with. Pay seems lousy but I expected that. They give $1,000 a month guarantee for ground school and then the pay ranges from $7.50 an hour for less than 40 hours in a month to $20 an hour for over 100 hours a month. They also highly tout the "tuition reemnursement" from the regionals but I wouldn't qualify for that.

 

[chiliphil1]

Might be a good idea to work in the business for a little while before trying to jump out and start your own. Earning 30k/annually is definitely doable, but you'll need to be instructing in the right business outfit.

0 to CPL in 6 months is pretty adventurous, what type of school is this?

It's called ATP. It's not the only game in town by a long shot just the one I referenced. Many others have the same type of set up without the timeline but say that "generally" 50-70 hours for the PPL.

I definitely wanted to stick with an established school to gain experience before I did my own thing BUT I mentioned the other thing here because I wasn't sure if that could be a "good" opportunity for me since I would have an A&P partner which would drastically reduce costs.

 

[RyanB]

It's called ATP. It's not the only game in town by a long shot just the one I referenced. Many others have the same type of set up without the timeline but say that "generally" 50-70 hours for the PPL.

I definitely wanted to stick with an established school to gain experience before I did my own thing BUT I mentioned the other thing here because I wasn't sure if that could be a "good" opportunity for me since I would have an A&P partner which would drastically reduce costs.

Mhmm. I thought that's what you might be referring too. @James331 will be here shortly to inform you of what needs to be known about ATP.

Don't pay much attention to their propaganda. Their mission is very fast paced and they shuttle students through like cattle. Not saying you should choose somewhere else, but be wide-eyed when it comes to their ciriculum.

 

[chiliphil1]

Mhmm. ATP, I thought that's what you might be referring too. @James331 will be here shortly to inform you of what needs to be known about ATP.

Don't pay much attention to their propaganda.

Copy that. It's why I ask here. I trust what you guys have to say.

The other big player is falcon aviation, heard good things there. Another one is called "fly boys" dumb name but they're the closest to home out of all options and offer everything I would need. They don't mention the instructor job when you graduate though. I'm going to have to call them.

Also, is the ME required for CFI? I was thinking that if I don't need that it would cut a few grand off of my total expense.

 

[RyanB]

Copy that. It's why I ask here. I trust what you guys have to say.

The other big player is falcon aviation, heard good things there. Another one is called "fly boys" dumb name but they're the closest to home out of all options and offer everything I would need. They don't mention the instructor job when you graduate though. I'm going to have to call them.

Also, is the ME required for CFI? I was thinking that if I don't need that it would cut a few grand off of my total expense.

Don't know anything about Falcon. A lot of times smaller operations tend to have healthier connections with their students over big operations such as ATP, which is why I would recommend a mom 'n pop setup in your situation.

And no, the only time a ME rating is required is if you want to teach multi-engine instruction to other students. Then you would need to add it onto your CFI cert.

 

[mscard88]

Where are you located? Falcon in Peachtree City?

What is AOA.....welllllll, if you stay on POA and read the posts you'll eventually find out. But I won't spoil it for you.

 

[chiliphil1]

Where are you located? Falcon in Peachtree City?

What is AOA.....welllllll, if you stay on POA and read the posts you'll eventually find out. But I won't spoil it for you.

Yes, it would be the Peachtree city location.

 

[mscard88]

Yes, it would be the Peachtree city location.

I knew the past part owner, who was our Dir of Flight Ops at ASA years ago at ATL. A good school from what I heard back then, but I've been out of touch for years so I don't know what's going on there now. I did hear they have a lot of Chinese students so that may call for caution as they may have priority.

 

[JCranford]

I don't really have any interest in becoming a commercial pilot.

You realize that a CFI *is* a commercial pilot right...?

 

[chiliphil1]

You realize that a CFI *is* a commercial pilot right...?

Yes, but you know what I meant. Commercial as in I don't want to fly the big boys for airlines or cargo carriers.

 

[mscard88]

You realize that a CFI *is* a commercial pilot right...?

He meant as a commercial pilot flying for an airline. Every CFI knows you can't be a commercial pilot teaching flying and try to make a living doing it.

 

[Ravioli]

If your goal is to be a CFI and not to get to the regionals in minimum time, you might consider buying a 152, using it to for your PPL and IFR, then get your multi and commercial in a rental, then go to a CFI add-on from AF or the like.

With this route you'll already have your trainer that you want to put on the flight line, and the training will cost you much less than going with the quickies.

 

[JCranford]

I know, but it's way more fun to bust the new guy's balls! Get him broke in right!

 

[mscard88]

Ifgoing with the quickies.

WTF is wrong with a quicki????

 

[Ravioli]

Why is that if there's a way to get me in trouble @mscard88 will be the first to find it?

 

[mscard88]

Why is that if there's a way to get me in trouble @mscard88 will be the first to find it?

WHAT?! Meeeee?

 

[chiliphil1]

If your goal is to be a CFI and not to get to the regionals in minimum time, you might consider buying a 152, using it to for your PPL and IFR, then get your multi and commercial in a rental, then go to a CFI add-on from AF or the like.

With this route you'll already have your trainer that you want to put on the flight line, and the training will cost you much less than going with the quickies.

That's sort of the approach I meant with going with the A&P guy. I like the idea but it does leave me with the problem of being a fresh CFI trying to obtain clients.

Lots to think about and I really need to talk to a couple of other schools.

 

[chiliphil1]

I know, but it's way more fun to bust the new guy's balls! Get him broke in right!

Hey, I've been a mechanic for over a decade. I can take it and dish it as good as anyone. Shop humor as I always called it. Used outside of the shop it makes me look like a jerk though, so I had to stop doing it at home. Not implying that you look like a jerk, just saying that I know what you meant.

 

[WannFly]

Yeah it's just their advertised "possible" time line. I realize that it's ambitious and most likely not going to happen. Their "timeline" shows making it to 1500 hours and applying to a regional within 2 years. Again though, once I have the CFI I'll have what I was there for.



Alright, you got the new guy. What's an AOA?

Read few older posts and u will get the hang of it. In all seriousness it's angle of attack indicator, I am a newbie myself so don't know squat about flying, but from what I can gather, it's a smart thing to have, and I am putting one in my plane when I get one. Others I am sure will chime in and say u don't NEED it to fly, and sure u don't, but when the technology exists and if affordable, why the heck not.

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[WannFly]

Where are you located? Falcon in Peachtree City?

What is AOA.....welllllll, if you stay on POA and read the posts you'll eventually find out. But I won't spoil it for you.

Dang...I spoiled it for him

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[chiliphil1]

Read few older posts and u will get the hang of it. In all seriousness it's angle of attack indicator, I am a newbie myself so don't know squat about flying, but from what I can gather, it's a smart thing to have, and I am putting one in my plane when I get one. Others I am sure will chime in and say u don't NEED it to fly, and sure u don't, but when the technology exists and if affordable, why the heck not.

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Ah geez, now I feel like a dummy! I know exactly what angle of attack is. Just didn't pick it up from the abbreviation.

 

[WannFly]

You realize that a CFI *is* a commercial pilot right...?

And when you hop on a charter, or take people on sight seeing and make money off it.. that's commercial too

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[chiliphil1]

If your goal is to be a CFI and not to get to the regionals in minimum time, you might consider buying a 152, using it to for your PPL and IFR, then get your multi and commercial in a rental, then go to a CFI add-on from AF or the like.

With this route you'll already have your trainer that you want to put on the flight line, and the training will cost you much less than going with the quickies.

Question.

If I went this route it would save me the cost of plane rental. I would only need to pay for the instructor (plus fuel and main costs, I know that) but when I'm done with school I would already have the aircraft, I wouldn't need to pay $50k for school AND $30k for the plane. If I went in partners with the other guy my maintenance would be massively lower than normal and he'd pay half the cost of the plane... Now, I can get PPI and instrument in that plane. Couldn't I also get commercial and CFI in that plane? I know I couldn't do ME but I would think I could do everything else in it, right? If I'm planning to run a local flight school would I really even need ME? I know that it could be beneficial to obtain ME, then CFI-ME but would I HAVE to do that?

 

[Ravioli]

Read the requirements for Commercial. You'll see complex in there, so that will be the portion you'll need to rent a plane for.

Actually, you should read the requirements for all the ratings except ATP, and you should assure you'll be able to get and maintain your second class medical before you start down the path.

 

[chiliphil1]

Read the requirements for Commercial. You'll see complex in there, so that will be the portion you'll need to rent a plane for.

Actually, you should read the requirements for all the ratings except ATP, and you should assure you'll be able to get and maintain your second class medical before you start down the path.

Understood. Thank you for the info.

Edit: Just looked up the regs for the medical. It states (sorry for the long post)

(1) Must hold a first-class medical certificate:

(i) When exercising the pilot-in-command privileges of an airline transport pilot certificate;

(ii) When exercising the second-in-command privileges of an airline transport pilot certificate in a flag or supplemental operation in part 121 of this chapter that requires three or more pilots; or

(iii) When serving as a required pilot flightcrew member in an operation conducted under part 121 of this chapter if the pilot has reached his or her 60th birthday.

(2) Must hold at least a second class medical certificate when exercising:

(i) Second-in-command privileges of an airline transport pilot certificate in part 121 of this chapter (other than operations specified in paragraph (a)(1)(ii) of this section); or

(ii) Privileges of a commercial pilot certificate; or

(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate—

(i) When exercising the privileges of a private pilot certificate;

(ii) When exercising the privileges of a recreational pilot certificate;

(iii) When exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate;

(iv) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate and acting as the pilot in command;

(v) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate and serving as a required pilot flight crewmember;

(vi) When taking a practical test in an aircraft for a recreational pilot, private pilot, commercial pilot, or airline transport pilot certificate, or for a flight instructor certificate; or

(vii) When performing the duties as an Examiner in an aircraft when administering a practical test or proficiency check for an airman certificate, rating, or authorization.

From reading this I would need 1st class to be an airline pilot, 2nd class to exercise privileges of a commercial pilot license, but then it says 3rd class when exercising the privileges of a flight instructor.

I'm not trying to argue at all, just trying to understand because the 2nd class reads as though if you want to use your CPL you have to have that but then 3rd class says that you need it for CFI.. It's quite confusing. I would assume it's the best plan to go with the highest one I can get and maintain it?

 

[chiliphil1]

From everything I am seeing I should qualify for 1st class. 2nd shouldn't be an issue. I think, just to be safe I'll go have that in hand before I even enter flight school, just to make sure.

 

[bobmrg]

If you apply for a first class and it is denied, there is no going back....one of the questions you will be asked is "Have you ever had a medical certificate denied?" which is a deal-breaker. Go for the second class medical. The only time I needed a first-class in my career was when an employer's insurance company required one. (The insurance industry has tighter qualifications than the FAA.) It will be awhile before you need to worry about that.

Bob

 

[denverpilot]

Don't overthink it @chiliphil1 ...

Nate's Simplified Rules for medicals:

1. Don't apply for any medical if you think you have any reason for a denial or a special issuance. TALK to an AME first WITHOUT filling out MedXpress. A denial is forever and kills certain options. The AME is a Doc first. Hire them for expertise first and foremost, not paper pushing. Paper pushing is secondary.

- If... you have reason to believe you have a special issuance, make sure your AME is of the Doc Bruce disciples who will be your ADVOCATE and collect all necessary information and tests PRIOR to applying and will fight for an in-office approval. If you can't find an AME locally who ascribes to this patient advocate position and would rather make money waiting for FAA in a REACTIONARY way, do not use them. A plane ticket to Peoria, IL to see Bruce is guaranteed cheaper than that Doc will cost you. AreoMedicalDoc.com for his info.

- Don't bother getting any higher Class medical than necessary. Get exactly what you need and TALK to your AME (your advocate) about making sure you can get a higher Class later with current medical conditions if you have Commercial aviation goals. Medical conditions change and there's no "maintenance" or "making it easier" just because you held a 1st Class yesterday and you're in for a renewal today. If you need a 3rd get a 3rd. If you need a 2nd or 1st, get those. No point at all getting one you don't need or can't use.

...

Not one of the rules, but your confusion about the CFI is because it's a carve out. It allows us old ass people with hearing trashed by too many years without ANR and bad eyesight to still teach. LOL. Otherwise it would be a Commercial operation -- there's a number of carve outs for CFIs. Don't worry about it.

Too many people overthink this. You need what you need. Submit everything necessary to the bureaucracy up front and as Bruce says, "Know the likely answer going in. Don't wait for them to ask for more." The AMEs know what they can issue in-office and what they can't, and if they don't, you don't want that person hired as your Doc for this job. Find one who does.

 

[chiliphil1]

If you apply for a first class and it is denied, there is no going back....one of the questions you will be asked is "Have you ever had a medical certificate denied?" which is a deal-breaker. Go for the second class medical. The only time I needed a first-class in my career was when an employer's insurance company required one. (The insurance industry has tighter qualifications than the FAA.) It will be awhile before you need to worry about that.

Bob

Don't overthink it @chiliphil1 ...

Nate's Simplified Rules for medicals:

1. Don't apply for any medical if you think you have any reason for a denial or a special issuance. TALK to an AME first WITHOUT filling out MedXpress. A denial is forever and kills certain options. The AME is a Doc first. Hire them for expertise first and foremost, not paper pushing. Paper pushing is secondary.

- If... you have reason to believe you have a special issuance, make sure your AME is of the Doc Bruce disciples who will be your ADVOCATE and collect all necessary information and tests PRIOR to applying and will fight for an in-office approval. If you can't find an AME locally who ascribes to this patient advocate position and would rather make money waiting for FAA in a REACTIONARY way, do not use them. A plane ticket to Peoria, IL to see Bruce is guaranteed cheaper than that Doc will cost you. AreoMedicalDoc.com for his info.

- Don't bother getting any higher Class medical than necessary. Get exactly what you need and TALK to your AME (your advocate) about making sure you can get a higher Class later with current medical conditions if you have Commercial aviation goals. Medical conditions change and there's no "maintenance" or "making it easier" just because you held a 1st Class yesterday and you're in for a renewal today. If you need a 3rd get a 3rd. If you need a 2nd or 1st, get those. No point at all getting one you don't need or can't use.

...

Not one of the rules, but your confusion about the CFI is because it's a carve out. It allows us old ass people with hearing trashed by too many years without ANR and bad eyesight to still teach. LOL. Otherwise it would be a Commercial operation -- there's a number of carve outs for CFIs. Don't worry about it.

Too many people overthink this. You need what you need. Submit everything necessary to the bureaucracy up front and as Bruce says, "Know the likely answer going in. Don't wait for them to ask for more." The AMEs know what they can issue in-office and what they can't, and if they don't, you don't want that person hired as your Doc for this job. Find one who does.

Thank you guys so much! I very greatly appreciate the help. I'll find myself an AME and start there.

 

[paflyer]

Thank you guys so much! I very greatly appreciate the help. I'll find myself an AME and start there.

Don't pick one out of the phone book, ask around the airport (pros who need to keep one to work.)

 

[Ravioli]

Don't pick one out of the phone book, ask around the airport (pros who need to keep one to work.)

Post here your geography and someone will point you to good Doc to work with.

 

[chiliphil1]

My zip code is 30204.

Barnesville, ga. Right in the middle of Atlanta and Macon.

 

[Dana]

Some random thoughts (bearing in mind that I am NOT a commercial pilot):

There's not much money in flight instruction, mainly because there are so many new pilots willing to instruct for peanuts to build time for an airline career.

The old line "to make a small fortune in aviation, start with a large fortune" is firmly rooted in truth.

If you interest is in the smaller side of the aviation business, then a large flight school oriented toward training airline pilots is probably not your best choice. "Joe's flying school" or a freelance CFI might be a better choice.

You can be a Sport Pilot instructor without a commercial certificate. You can't do charters or sightseeing flights then, though.

I don't know if this is still the case, but you used to be able to get a commercial without an instrument rating. Such pilots were limited to, IIRC, 50 miles from home base, which rules out most charters, but allows things like sightseeing flights, crop dusting, etc.

Buying your own plane to learn in is often an excellent idea, and can save you a lot of money.


Start by getting your Private, then do a bunch of flying around your local area, soak up the scene and culture, then decide what direction you want to go.