Helicopter skydiver drop goes bad!

mikea

mikea

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SCARY!!! A helicopter skydiver drop goes wrong when one drogue chute deploys on the skid.

Imagine if those chutes had caught the tail rotor!

 
We didn't see the the first diver pull his reserve chute.

Did it look like the pilot was doing an emergency descent?
 
NineThreeKilo said:
This is why jumpers should always carry a hook knife
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Yeah but if the pilotchute was cut loose it could have made it worse. Just ugly all the way round, and there was a good bit of luck. Pilot was lucky the jumpers stuck around to untangle the mess.
 
Seems like a request to land and deal with it on the ground might have been in order.
 
mikea said:
We didn't see the the first diver pull his reserve chute.

Did it look like the pilot was doing an emergency descent?
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I don't know anything about parachutes, but I went back and it looks like when the first jumper finally jumped, whatever was tangled was attached to the chute, and that it deployed then.
 
Maxmosbey said:
I don't know anything about parachutes, but I went back and it looks like when the first jumper finally jumped, whatever was tangled was attached to the chute, and that it deployed then.
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The jumper's drogue chute deployed as he was on the skid, and it staring pulling out his main chute. He cut loose and dropped - hopefully to be on his reserve chute - and the remaining divers dealt with untangling and bringing his original chute inside.
 
mikea said:
The jumper's drogue chute deployed as he was on the skid, and it staring pulling out his main chute. He cut loose and dropped - hopefully to be on his reserve chute - and the remaining divers dealt with untangling and bringing his original chute inside.
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He had his d bag out as he got out (pin came loose?) his pilot shoot, sport rigs don't normally have a Drogue, pulled the rubber bands and there you have it.

He cut away, then pulled reserve, or his rsl or skyhook pulled for him, all else fails his aad would fire the reserve at target alt

If his buddy in the chopper had a hook knife he could have gotten that nylon back in the chopper faster, seems like he was struggling on untangling that bridle for awhile
 
NineThreeKilo said:
If his buddy in the chopper had a hook knife he could have gotten that nylon back in the chopper faster
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I thought the same thing initially. But on second thought, I don't know that I would want anything cut off and flying away.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
He had his d bag out as he got out (pin came loose?) his pilot shoot, sport rigs don't normally have a Drogue, pulled the rubber bands and there you have it.
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OK, I didn't know the terminology. I've stayed in every plane so far.

You can see the 1st diver pull his reserve under the copter.
 
I'm sure he didn't have the power margins to hover OGE, but it's a helicopter, the pilot could have slowed down a little more to make it easier for the guys to pull the nylon in.
 
Direct C51 said:
I'm sure he didn't have the power margins to hover OGE, but it's a helicopter, the pilot could have slowed down a little more to make it easier for the guys to pull the nylon in.
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Or go into autorotation so the junk floats off the skids. Slowing wouldnt help the wind is still blowing straight down. And if any of that hits the tail rotor every bit of forward speed improves survivability.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Or go into autorotation so the junk floats off the skids. Slowing wouldnt help the wind is still blowing straight down. And if any of that hits the tail rotor every bit of forward speed improves survivability.
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There is surprisingly little rotor wash near the body of helicopters. The rotor wash is only bad from about the tips outward, especially during an OGE hover. In an autorotation you would have about 70-90 knots of forward airspeed and a high rate of descent, so the nylon wouldn't just 'float off'. An autorotation with low forward airspeed is about the worst thing you can do in a helicopter. You are correct about forward airspeed being your friend with a tail rotor malfunction.
 
That gives me the willies. That pilot chute is only held in by a little elastic bag. I sure don't like them hanging on the side of the airplane long.
 
Scary, there is a reason most people do it out of planes
 
Really nothing more the pilot could have done in this situation. If he panics and comes down fast (auto) then you run the risk of it going into the main rotor or tail rotor. Probably didn't have power for HOGE so that won't work. Best option is a slow speed descent around ETL and hope they can reel the chute in.

Never liked flying with doors open. Too loud, too slow, and too many things can find their way out the door and into the tail.
 
I'm envisioning them on the ground showing the pilot the video and watching him upchuck.
 
A sport parachute is generally 80-200 sqft of nylon and a couple hundred feet of suspension lines. It's entirely possible that it could be entangled in the skids and still reach the main or tail rotor. Imagine how fast that helicopter would implode.

If it were me I would have slowed to just above ETL and maybe began a shallow climb, just to get the relative wind moving in a direction that's beneficial if the canopy (or even part of it) tries to flies away. But I really have no idea what the statistically safest thing to do would have been. I wonder if the pilot even knew what was going on.

ClimbnSink said:
Or go into autorotation so the junk floats off the skids.
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There's still significant forward motion in an auto, and falling that fast, you probably risk the nylon going up into the main rotor system.
 
benb172 said:
Scary, there is a reason most people do it out of planes
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Well these things happen in aircraft as well. Jumpers a lot of the time hang on the side of the aircraft with the wind blowing against their pilot or get it snagged on something and it gets pulled out. The good ones really try and protect it at all times.

Velocity173 said:
Really nothing more the pilot could have done in this situation. If he panics and comes down fast (auto) then you run the risk of it going into the main rotor or tail rotor. Probably didn't have power for HOGE so that won't work. Best option is a slow speed descent around ETL and hope they can reel the chute in.

Never liked flying with doors open. Too loud, too slow, and too many things can find their way out the door and into the tail.
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It looks like they are in the decent to sort the problem out on the ground. But one thing that hasn't been said is many of the chutes have explosive charges in them to deploy at a lower altitude and with a significant decent rate. So you have to be real careful as a pilot when carrying divers to the ground with you. You don't want explosions everywhere with chutes pulling people out of the plane. I

bqmassey said:
A sport parachute is generally 80-200 sqft of nylon and a couple hundred feet of suspension lines. It's entirely possible that it could be entangled in the skids and still reach the main or tail rotor. Imagine how fast that helicopter would implode.

If it were me I would have slowed to just above ETL and maybe began a shallow climb, just to get the relative wind moving in a direction that's beneficial if the canopy (or even part of it) tries to flies away. But I really have no idea what the statistically safest thing to do would have been. I wonder if the pilot even knew what was going on.



There's still significant forward motion in an auto, and falling that fast, you probably risk the nylon going up into the main rotor system.
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I think he new after a few minutes of panic in the back.
 
Not a heli pilot but what about flying to the left to put the chute in the lee of the fuselage?
 
Dumber question: Could he have flown backward? :) (Also not a heli pilot... but I do understand the HOGE problem... backward seems like an option...)
 
denverpilot said:
Dumber question: Could he have flown backward? :) (Also not a heli pilot... but I do understand the HOGE problem... backward seems like an option...)
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The transition would be tough. At that altitude and weight he's most likely above HOGE power. A Bell 206 max HOGE isn't all that good fully loaded. Most likely he would sink and if the rate gets high enough the air will flow upwards through the rotor (vortex ring state).

Really the best thing is just to get it on the ground and not do anything drastic.
 
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If I'm seeing that right he cut away jumped and deployed the reserve. I've got to wonder why you'd make the decision to jump and go with your reserve as the last option when you could have climbed back in.

He is ******** lucky the main didn't get yanked out. They'd all have been in for a hell of a ride.
 
denverpilot said:
Dumber question: Could he have flown backward? :) (Also not a heli pilot... but I do understand the HOGE problem... backward seems like an option...)
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Backwards at a low airspeed wouldn't be much better than forward at a low airspeed, and that transition would just make the situation worse. I think I would slow as much as power would allow, likely just above ETL. The guys could then either pull it in with less airflow trying to pull on the chute, maybe a little right pedal so if it did let go, it wouldn't end up in the tail. Could also just hold it where it is until I could make a slow descent to a landing. Whatever he did, it seemed to have worked.

Do you think it crossed their minds, just for a second, to bail? :yikes: The pilot was the only one without a chute.
 
Direct C51 said:
Backwards at a low airspeed wouldn't be much better than forward at a low airspeed, and that transition would just make the situation worse. I think I would slow as much as power would allow, likely just above ETL. The guys could then either pull it in with less airflow trying to pull on the chute, maybe a little right pedal so if it did let go, it wouldn't end up in the tail. Could also just hold it where it is until I could make a slow descent to a landing. Whatever he did, it seemed to have worked.

Do you think it crossed their minds, just for a second, to bail? :yikes: The pilot was the only one without a chute.
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The pilot would have had a chute.
 
Why would the pilot have had a chute? Is that a requirement for choppers?
 
I have a close friend that fly's jump planes and I didn't think he had to wear a chute. I could be wrong, I will ask him.
 
tmyers said:
Why would the pilot have had a chute? Is that a requirement for choppers?
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No fars technically require it. Often times STCs for door removal will require it. You'd be a absolute idiot not to wear one.

It's pretty standard.
 
Reqquirement to wear a chute flying jumpers is in the aircraft door stc or poh. Little cessnas always, twin otters never seen a pilot with a rig on. Helicopters I doubt it, it is nealry impossible for the pilot to bail out. If the jumpers bailed the pilot would almost certainly been toast.
 
jesse said:
If I'm seeing that right he cut away jumped and deployed the reserve. I've got to wonder why you'd make the decision to jump and go with your reserve as the last option when you could have climbed back in.

He is ******** lucky the main didn't get yanked out. They'd all have been in for a hell of a ride.
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As a licensed skydiver, I was always taught that once you are outside the aircraft, you do not go back in. Might have caused some issue also. Also, once the chute was pulled out all the way, it was a malfunctioning chute. Period. Not useful. Main canopies are also not designed for low airspeed opening like a reserve is. The lines most likely would have tangled and the chute would have needed cut away anyways,.

The point is, all kinds of bad things could have happened to the skydiver if he/she had not cut it away like the chute filling with air and yanking the person into the rotor or in an airplane, the empennage (which has happened).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLTw4RE7xYc

David
 
flhrci said:
As a licensed skydiver, I was always taught that once you are outside the aircraft, you do not go back in. Might have caused some issue also. Also, once the chute was pulled out all the way, it was a malfunctioning chute. Period. Not useful. Main canopies are also not designed for low airspeed opening like a reserve is. The lines most likely would have tangled and the chute would have needed cut away anyways,.

The point is, all kinds of bad things could have happened to the skydiver if he/she had not cut it away like the chute filling with air and yanking the person into the rotor or in an airplane, the empennage (which has happened).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLTw4RE7xYc

David
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I'm not saying he shouldn't have cut it away. That was a good call. I'm saying maybe climbing back into the helicopter wouldn't have been a bad idea. I just don't like the idea of jumping with one parachute if you have other options.

Granted I just fly em'.
 
jesse said:
I'm not saying he shouldn't have cut it away. That was a good call. I'm saying maybe climbing back into the helicopter wouldn't have been a bad idea. I just don't like the idea of jumping with one parachute if you have other options.

Granted I just fly em'.
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Ok, now I understand your point. Gotcha.

David
 
I've been involved in 2 of these over the years. It is indeed about one of the worst possible malfunctions, but usually works out. Simplistically, the deployment bag came out (either the closing pin was loose or it was bumped), the main came partially out as well as the pilot chute which got wrapped around the skid.

The pilot chute (the small back chute) is designed to pull the pin holding the main (The blue material, which starts in a bag) out and they pull it into the wind where it inflates. You can pull a pilot chute back but if the main inflates something will break. Once the jumper cut away the odds of the main fully inflating go way down. keeping it from the tail rotor is the important part. A hook knife would have been a very useful tool.

The jumper cutting away is certainly the right and proper thing to do. Whether you then jump or get back in is debatable. As a jumper I think I would have jumped, as the instructor I would have been glad to have him jump and be out of the way.

The jumper needs to figure out how the pin came out and not let it happen again. But after the "incident" It looks to me like all involved did a pretty good job of keeping it from escalating.
 
jesse said:
No fars technically require it. Often times STCs for door removal will require it. You'd be a absolute idiot not to wear one.

It's pretty standard.
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You are correct in saying that some STC's require it. For instance our 207 requires it, but our caravans, otters, skyvans, ect... Do not. I do not wear one in the caravan, and I sir do not consider myself an absolute idiot.


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Unless this was definitely over a completely unpopulated area, there's no way I'm jumping out from a tail rotor malfunction, as a pilot. I'm not sure what a chute is going to do to a tail rotor, but I can live through a no tail rotor landing. It's not worth sending that helicopter through a house, even if I did have a chute.
 
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