Height above crowd question?

[N747JB]

First, I am too lazy to look this up.
But, I am going to take pictures of a music festival this afternoon that is happening behind my house. I believe I need to stay 1000 AGL over the "populated area" even though it's a farm, it's populated this weekend.
Can I go below 1000, but above 500 if I am outside the perimeter of the event? It's located along a river with a few scattered houses in the area.
This is what happens when you don't fly VFR much.
It's underneath the ATL class B, if that matters.
Thanks.

 

[cowman]

At least 1,000 feet above highest obstacle within 2,000
feet of the aircraft.

High enough altitude to permit safe landing without danger to people/property if the engine quits.

 

[RotorAndWing]

First, I am too lazy to look this up.
But, I am going to take pictures of a music festival this afternoon that is happening behind my house. I believe I need to stay 1000 AGL over the "populated area" even though it's a farm, it's populated this weekend.
Can I go below 1000, but above 500 if I am outside the perimeter of the event? It's located along a river with a few scattered houses in the area.
This is what happens when you don't fly VFR much.
It's underneath the ATL class B, if that matters.
Thanks.

I actually had to work a couple of complaints for something similar. Both got cleared, but be sure to stay above the limits. There's always someone in the crowd with a camera phone and internet connection that wants to be a "good citizen" and make a report to the FSDO.

 

[N747JB]

I actually had to work a couple of complaints for something similar. Both got cleared, but be sure to stay above the limits. There's always someone in the crowd with a camera phone and internet connection that wants to be a "good citizen" and make a report to the FSDO.

This thing is so loud, I'll be able to hear it in the cockpit with my Bose headset on! The folks attending will likely be stoned, but I guess the people working could have an issue if I got too low. I will most likely stay at 1000 AGL and around the outside of the perimeter. No sense in looking for trouble.

 

[RotorAndWing]

This thing is so loud, I'll be able to hear it in the cockpit with my Bose headset on! The folks attending will likely be stoned, but I guess the people working could have an issue if I got too low. I will most likely stay at 1000 AGL and around the outside of the perimeter. No sense in looking for trouble.

Agreed. It's usually another pilot sitting in the audience that feels he's doing a "good deed".

Be careful.

 

[bluerooster]

First, I am too lazy to look this up.
But, I am going to take pictures of a music festival this afternoon that is happening behind my house. I believe I need to stay 1000 AGL over the "populated area" even though it's a farm, it's populated this weekend.
Can I go below 1000, but above 500 if I am outside the perimeter of the event? It's located along a river with a few scattered houses in the area.
This is what happens when you don't fly VFR much.
It's underneath the ATL class B, if that matters.
Thanks.

Sounds like a fun time. Just be safe, and have someone else with the camera.

 

[N747JB]

Sounds like a fun time. Just be safe, and have someone else with the camera.

My starter wife is a great photographer, she'll actually sit in the back seat and shoot out the pilot side window. I'll post some more pictures on here tomorrow.

 

[JimG.]

First, I am too lazy to look this up.
But, I am going to take pictures of a music festival this afternoon that is happening behind my house. I believe I need to stay 1000 AGL over the "populated area" even though it's a farm, it's populated this weekend.
Can I go below 1000, but above 500 if I am outside the perimeter of the event? It's located along a river with a few scattered houses in the area.
This is what happens when you don't fly VFR much.
It's underneath the ATL class B, if that matters.
Thanks.

One gets soft when he starts burning jetA…

 

[coma24]

1000 above nearest within 2000ft over a congested area.
500 above if other than congested.
500 from if sparsely populated.

high enough to not cause undue hazard to people or property below in event of engine failure.

 

[eman1200]

is it music midtown or did that happen already?

 

[N747JB]

is it music midtown or did that happen already?

It's called Tomorrow world or Tomorrow land, google it, it's a techno music festival, not my cup of tea! I can hear it pretty clearly at my house!

 

[poadeleted21]

My starter wife is a great photographer, she'll actually sit in the back seat and shoot out the pilot side window. I'll post some more pictures on here tomorrow.

"starter wife". You planning on upgrading soon?

 

[N747JB]

One gets soft when he starts burning jetA…

I've actually flown more VFR in the last 2 years than I have in the last 20! Even with piston twins, it seems I am usually going somewhere and it's not a lot of "fun" flying.

 

[N747JB]

"starter wife". You planning on upgrading soon?

HELL NO I have impressed all the women I can afford!!!

 

[LDJones]

Try to get her to an open window to shoot. Shooting through plexi seriously degrades the images.

 

[Henning]

It's called Tomorrow world or Tomorrow land, google it, it's a techno music festival, not my cup of tea! I can hear it pretty clearly at my house!

Oh I feel sorry for you lol, I can't take techno, I'd be on an out of town vacation.

 

[N747JB]

Oh I feel sorry for you lol, I can't take techno, I'd be on an out of town vacation.

It's not too bad with the windows closed and the TV on! But the fireworks drive my dogs crazy!

 

[Norman]

It's not too bad with the windows closed and the TV on! But the fireworks drive my dogs crazy!

No noise ordinances is your neighborhood?

 

[JimG.]

I've actually flown more VFR in the last 2 years than I have in the last 20! Even with piston twins, it seems I am usually going somewhere and it's not a lot of "fun" flying.

You have the best of both worlds with the 2 airplanes.

When I was flying the Bonanza, I would frequently listen to center frequencies looking up above me and dreaming what it would be like in the flight levels…

But when I was up in the flight levels, I often looked down and missed those flights down low

 

[poadeleted20]

First, I am too lazy to look this up.
But, I am going to take pictures of a music festival this afternoon that is happening behind my house. I believe I need to stay 1000 AGL over the "populated area"

The regulatory term is "congested," not "populated", and that may make more sense to you in this context.

Can I go below 1000, but above 500 if I am outside the perimeter of the event? It's located along a river with a few scattered houses in the area.

Beware of being below 1000 AGL around those "few scattered houses". The FAA has some very loose definitions of "congested area".

From some NTSB Orders on the subject:

http://www.ntsb.gov/legal/o_n_o/docs/Aviation/3646.pdf
Respondents claim, to the contrary, that Shepard Mesa is not such an area. Although the Administrator's reply inexplicably fails to address this claim, it is without foundation in case law. See, e.g., Administrator v. Harkcom, 35 C.A.B. 934, 937 (1962), and cases cited there. Thus, the Shepard Mesa subdivision -- comprised of a minimum of 20 houses, in an area approximately .5 mi. x .66 mi. -- would qualify as a congested area.

http://www.ntsb.gov/legal/o_n_o/docs/Aviation/3693.PDF
...you operated or caused to be operated N4709P, over a congested area of Malibu, namely Civic Center Way, at an altitude of 250 feet AGL [above ground level], descending over a Hughes Market and the Malibu Country Market, flaps down and slow speed, until it reached an altitude of about 100 feet AGL, headed toward a field just south of the Court House at 23525 Civic Center Way. When at an altitude of about 100 feet AGL over the Malibu Country Market, you began a climb out. There were many shoppers in the markets and adjacent parking lots.

http://www.ntsb.gov/legal/o_n_o/docs/Aviation/4080.PDF
During the course of the above flight you made several low passes over a congested area, specifically the Pearce Ford Tower at Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, Kentucky,...

http://www.ntsb.gov/legal/o_n_o/docs/Aviation/4188.PDF
In the Board's view, even if Interstate 5, a major California freeway, is not "bumper to bumper" on a late Saturday afternoon, moderate traffic in every lane still renders it "congested," for purposes of the regulation. See also Administrator v. Dutton, NTSB Order No. EA-3204 (1990) (Moderate traffic on a highway at 12:55 p.m. is a congested area for purposes of the minimum safe altitude regulation).

http://www.ntsb.gov/legal/o_n_o/docs/Aviation/4210.PDF
...respondent operated his Cessna 172 aircraft within 100-200 feet of the ground in the Revere-Saugus, MA area on July 11, 1992, in the vicinity of a large regatta (including "Tall Ships") commemorating the 500th anniversary of Columbus' voyage. The nearby ground and water areas were congested, and respondent would not have been able to make a safe emergency landing.

BTW, I think the first one cited (in which a clump of 20 houses is considered a "congested area") is the strictest interpretation of the term "congested area" in that context, and one which should be weighed carefully by any pilot considering flight below 1000 AGL.

 

[N747JB]

No noise ordinances is your neighborhood?

Of course, but this festival is on our county border with Fulton county (Atlanta) and they issue the permits, not our county where people actually live! The area it's in, is river bottom, beautiful farm land, the populated areas are across the river in Douglas county. Honestly it wasn't as bad last night, and this afternoon we can't even hear it, I think that's more a product of the wind direction than anything.