Have You Used the FSS Complaint Line?

[AuntPeggy]

Hubby called for a briefing this morning. We could look up and see a beautiful sky for our 40 nm flight, but we always call FSS anyway. Even though he had to tell the calling tree that we live in Eastern New York, when he finally got a briefer, she had to identify local sites phonetically. The CMK VOR wasn't Carmel, it was Charlie Mike Kilo. When she spelled out Victor Alpha Sierra India followed by some numbers on a scratchy and halting telephone line, Hubby didn't recognize what she meant and neither did she. She looked it up on three systems and finally a book before she was able to tell him that the Visual Approach Slope Indicator was unmonitored. Then she asked him whether that was important enough to tell the next caller. The call was full of annoying, silly incompetencies like that. It makes it harder and harder to bother with FSS.

So, he decided to look up the FSS complaint number. (888-FLT-SRVC or 888-358-7782) After a brief hold, he got a recording asking for a litany of information. He was unable to remember most of the list, so he answered as many as he could and hung up frustrated. We don't expect anything to come of it. Do they have an online site?

How is it going for you?

 

[Areeda]

Yes, it's http://www.afss.com/feedback/

I put a complaint there on a Friday night after a flight where Center was too busy for flight following. I called FSS on the radio to get the status of the MOAs in front of me and they said
1. Call Center (they're too busy)
2. It'll take a while (I'll wait I have no one else to talk to)
3. We used to do that but not any more.

So I looked up the AIM reference and left them a what do I do message on the feedback line?

Monday morning I got a call from a supervisor and we discussed it for a while. He was obviously from the old system and said. Look we never get that stuff from the Operating Agency, Center gets it. When you needed it ask the briefer to call Center on a priority line, we can get it for you.

BTW I've been having good luck with FSS lately, short wait times, decent briefings. You obviously got someone brand new. Maybe I have more tolerance for their students/newbies since I see how patiently FSS and ATC puts up with my students/newbies. Perhaps if there is a quality of briefing issue we should ask that their trainer confirm nothing was missed. There has to be a nice way to do it.

Joe

 

[KennyFlys]

Things seem to be getting more and more scary with flight service. Does it keep going down hill or will there be some serious intervention?

I've not heard a great many issues but it takes only one occurence where a pilot depends on information provided by flight service which leads to dire results.

 

[Maxmosbey]

The only problem that I have had with FSS, is that they are often off on the local conditions. One day I wanted to fly locally, but there was a cloud cover. The ASOS was saying clear, but I could see overcast. I called FSS to see how high it was, and if they thought that it was going to clear off soon. The guy told me that he was showing clear skies. I told him that I was looking at overcast skies, and he repeated that he had clear skies. As soon as I hung up, one of or charter pilots was taking off on an IFR, so I asked him to tell me what the ceiling was. He called back a little later to tell me that the ceiling was at five thousand, and that it was only about a thousand feet thick. He also said that when he got on top, he could see it clearing off to the West. Well, I realize that they can't have someone everywhere looking up at the sky, but it was overcast, and he was advising clear. What happens if someone calls and says I'm heading for AMW, what does it look like there? He is going to say clear. So, am I asking too much, to get that information from FSS? I don't know. The ASOS was saying clear too. I know from experience that predicting weather is pretty much a crap shoot sometimes. So is it the FSS, or is it technology? Regardless, it is a good example of why pilots need to use their heads, and not always rely on someone else to clear the way for them.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

They'll be hearing from me too. The automated airport info that was typically available by phone used to be so convenient, I could check the latest updates on a dozen airports for ceilings, etc. for a 200 mile radius on the way to the airport in under 5 minutes, without talking to or waiting for anybody. No more of that, they said check DUATS.

 

[KennyFlys]

They'll be hearing from me too. The automated airport info that was typically available by phone used to be so convenient, I could check the latest updates on a dozen airports for ceilings, etc. for a 200 mile radius on the way to the airport in under 5 minutes, without talking to or waiting for anybody. No more of that, they said check DUATS.

You mean they took out the phone number for the ASOS or what? I still call the one at PDK for an on-the-spot check of what is seen since NOAA reports are up to an hour old. I hope that access doesn't change.

Something I did see this last week was different numbers for winds aloft between the NOAA site and WSI which is presumably originating from NOAA. Both had been accessed only about ten minutes apart around 1430Z

 

[Everskyward]

So is it the FSS, or is it technology? Regardless, it is a good example of why pilots need to use their heads, and not always rely on someone else to clear the way for them.

In your example, I would say it is the ASOS technology. It was either inaccurate, or the sensor was pointing at a part of the sky that was clear even when the majority of the sky wasn't. As you say, we can't have live observers everywhere. At least it's better than the days when many small airports didn't have any type of weather observation at all.

 

[skyflyer8]

When she spelled out Victor Alpha Sierra India followed by some numbers on a scratchy and halting telephone line, Hubby didn't recognize what she meant and neither did she. She looked it up on three systems and finally a book before she was able to tell him that the Visual Approach Slope Indicator was unmonitored. Then she asked him whether that was important enough to tell the next caller.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH! That is ridiculous!!!

 

[SkyHog]

"Did you want to file an India Foxtrot Romeo flightplan?"

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

You mean they took out the phone number for the ASOS or what? I still call the one at PDK for an on-the-spot check of what is seen since NOAA reports are up to an hour old. I hope that access doesn't change.

Something I did see this last week was different numbers for winds aloft between the NOAA site and WSI which is presumably originating from NOAA. Both had been accessed only about ten minutes apart around 1430Z

Individual ASOSs/ATISs are still there. We used to have a number that just gave all the airports on tape in an outward spiral order from BFI and the pass conditions in under 2 minutes. No more, too damed fast, efficient and inexpensive.

 

[ScottM]

"Did you want to file an India Foxtrot Romeo flightplan?"

"I'd like to file India Foxtrot Romeo Foxtrot Lima India Golf Hotel Tango Papa Lime Alpha November please, over"





Train these monkeys please !!!

At this point I think outsourcing to a call center in India would be a step up!

 

[silver-eagle]

I've filed a couple of comments and a couple of complaints. For all, I got an email back but for the complaints, a phone call. It's worth it to file a complaint if you think what you got was less than the service of the former stations.
In reviewing the briefing this morning, I have to say I was unaccustomed to it. I had to repeat the departure airport a couple of times to which it seemed the agent had never heard of it before (Gulf Hotel... Gulf?). And then we get to the destination (is that 6 Victor 6? Ah, no. 6 Bravo 6.).
Clearly, not from this area. So much for their promise.
As to the weather briefing, with ASOS and remote reporting, those are based on 1 hour intervals. If you call at 59 minutes, you get an hour old report. Figure out the reporting interval (see it on DUAT/S) or use http://adds.aviationweather.gov/ METAR reports for more current info.
Calling the station direct is a good idea but you need to listen to a couple of cycles.

 

[gprellwitz]

Individual ASOSs/ATISs are still there. We used to have a number that just gave all the airports on tape in an outward spiral order from BFI and the pass conditions in under 2 minutes. No more, too damed fast, efficient and inexpensive.

Hmmm. At first, I thought you were talking about the TIBS, but that was never updated as frequently as what you're talking about. THat seems like a neat system. Too bad it is no longer

 

[gprellwitz]

As soon as I hung up, one of or charter pilots was taking off on an IFR, so I asked him to tell me what the ceiling was. He called back a little later to tell me that the ceiling was at five thousand, and that it was only about a thousand feet thick. He also said that when he got on top, he could see it clearing off to the West.

It would have been a good idea for him to call that in as a PIREP so the next poor sod inbound didn't get that CLR mistake too!

 

[jwriteclub]

yes I have.

I have had some amazing waits.

In addition the local knowledge has really been lost. It strikes me as the worst when I am unfamiliar with the area as well.

~ Christopher

 

[gkainz]

Your briefer wasn't someone with a name like April Wintergreen, or Jonathan Wayne or Ronald Reagan, speaking with a strong Indian accent, claiming to be in Chicago, USA or something similar but with the familiar Bangalore phone delay? Oh wait, that's just every other customer support call I make now, hopefully not for our flight briefings ... :-(