has the instrument FAA ground test gotten harder?

Badger

Badger

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Badger
I was clicking around the internet for instrument ground school options, and I came across Aviation Seminars
http://www.aviationseminars.com/instrument.html

from their web site:
UPDATE: Over the last year, FAA has greatly increased the difficulty of the FAA Exam

Any instructors here have feedback?
Thanks
 
Harder? No. But they did add a stack of questions on GPS, icing, and de-icing systems use about 2-3 years ago. Just adds a few more rote memorization items to the list (like knowing you should activate all structural anti/de-icing systems immediately on detection of structural icing rather than waiting for some period of time). The test prep book software providers sent out and/or made available on-line some update packages containing the new questions, but they should be fully incorporated in any new package you buy today (as opposed to second-hand test prep software or books you purchase from someone who originally bought it who-know-how-many years ago).
 
Thanks, that is what I thought. Their web site made it sound more sginificant(red text in post #1).

Tom
 
Badger said:
Thanks, that is what I thought. Their web site made it sound more sginificant(red text in post #1).
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What's become more difficult is teaching all the material in two days, since there's more material to teach. That's a significant problem for the folks running those two-day training-plus-test deals, as it has made them unable to teach it all and still give the test without extending the second day so long you're a vegetable before the test is complete, forcing them to push the test to Day 3 of a 2-day program. By blaming it on the FAA, they deflect customer complaints about being unable to do what the seminar provider originally promised (all training and test complete in two days).

The best way to do this remains taking your time learning the material thoroughly (either self-study over at least a couple of weeks or a formal ground school), then taking the 2-day test prep just before taking the test. There are good reasons the FAA requires a minimum of 30 hours of ground school time for an IR under Part 141 (we did 45 hours when I ran a university aviation program -- 15 weeks, three hours a week), and you only get half that in one of those 2-day seminars. Choose wisely.
 
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and therefore the pass rate they love to publish may be declining.
 
Badger said:
from their web site:
UPDATE: Over the last year, FAA has greatly increased the difficulty of the FAA Exam
Click to expand...

While I was at the Academy in early 2010 we had a presentation by the branch that administers the written exams. We were told all written test were in the process of being rewrote and unlike previous test the FAA would stop releasing test questions to the public. The first test to be redone was the Instrument written.

Of course the test prep folks were screaming unfair.
 
I do not know if it is any harder than before as I took my test in July 2012. The test was about 70% familiar to me, but even the unfamiliar questions, were of material that I had been exposed to. If you have been studying your material during the course of your training you will do fine. If you use the test prep books you will still probably pass, but ... I will stay off my soap box on this one.

Doug
 
When I took it for the first time in July 2010, most of the questions were familiar but there was also material covered that I hadn't been exposed to in any way shape or form. There was the question about when to pop the boots that Cap'n Ron mentioned, but there was also a question that I vaguely recall was about the effect of popping the boots when icing is present on the airfoil's flight characteristics. I guessed at it, got it wrong, and to this day have never seen that question in any of the sample test banks.

My second IR written, in August 2012, also had two "gotcha" questions. One was an old one that's in all the test banks about the proper way to fly a glideslope on which the FAA-sanctioned answer (which the Kings pointed out was to be learned only for the test because it was wrong) has apparently changed. The other was a bizarrely-worded currency question that I spent 20 minutes trying to decipher and still got wrong.
 
I took the test like 10 days ago. I saw maybe 1 or 2 questions that I wasn't familiar with. I got an 87% on it, which is better than I did on my PPL written.
 
All test within the FAA are written by professional test writers that take the information and develop test questions from it. What might seem obvious to a trained pilot is not to these writers with no aviation background.
 
RotorAndWing said:
While I was at the Academy in early 2010 we had a presentation by the branch that administers the written exams. We were told all written test were in the process of being rewrote and unlike previous test the FAA would stop releasing test questions to the public. The first test to be redone was the Instrument written.

Of course the test prep folks were screaming unfair.
Click to expand...
I've been doing this a long time, and have not noticed anything resembling a complete rewrite. All I've seen is the extra questions they added on GPS, icing, and anti/de-icing equipment in early 2010. Perhaps the goals they shared with you either were loftier than the could achieve, or taking a lot longer than they expected.
 
As a point of reference, I took my instrument written some time in the winter of 2011-2012. I'd have to check my records to see when it really was. But anyway, I was using the Sportys website to do my practice exams and regularly getting around a 92 or so. When I took the test I felt comfortable with most questions and knew I'd passed, but I definitely was surprised by a few of the questions that seemed out of the blue. I think I got an 80 or 82.

A number of the questions I missed were icing-related. I think there were four icing questions and I missed 3 of them despite picking answers that sounded pretty reasonable.

I'd been trained on icing conditions, ice avoidance, and emergency procedures if I did accidentally pick up ice, but really had no idea of the proper procedures for activating deicing boots and the like. It really seemed like the questions were directed more towards commercial ops in known icing as opposed to a private pilot trying to stay far from it.

I don't think I would say it made the test "harder," but just that they added new areas of specific emphasis and I was apparently unaware.
 
Ron Levy said:
I've been doing this a long time, and have not noticed anything resembling a complete rewrite. All I've seen is the extra questions they added on GPS, icing, and anti/de-icing equipment in early 2010. Perhaps the goals they shared with you either were loftier than the could achieve, or taking a lot longer than they expected.
Click to expand...

As with anything in government, it's a slow process. The rewrite will happen over a broad period of time, but more importantly they emphasized that they are not releasing the questions any longer.
 
RotorAndWing said:
As with anything in government, it's a slow process. The rewrite will happen over a broad period of time, but more importantly they emphasized that they are not releasing the questions any longer.
Click to expand...
Wasn't it an FOIA issue last time which resulted in the questions being released? Any reason that wouldn't still apply?
 
Ron Levy said:
Wasn't it an FOIA issue last time which resulted in the questions being released? Any reason that wouldn't still apply?
Click to expand...

I haven't kept up with it since the class at the Academy in 2010.

Personally I don't think the questions should be released if you are truly testing the individuals knowledge.

A good case in point is the Inspection Authorization written. Originally the test was administered by the FSDO and consisted of about 10 questions which required the applicant to have knowledge and demonstrate research skills. Each question had to be answered with all of the required references noted correctly. Some complaints were levied that the test was "unfair" and "subjective" so the test was changed to a multiple choice written similar to the other FAA writtens. Originally there was a database of 200 questions in which the applicant had to answer 50 of them. A flood of applicants came through and lots of new IA's were issued, but the problem was these individuals memorized the answers and were issued the rating, resulting in people holding a rating with no real knowledge of how to use it.

My understanding is now the FAA made the test more difficult and stopped releasing the questions.
 
RotorAndWing said:
I haven't kept up with it since the class at the Academy in 2010.

Personally I don't think the questions should be released if you are truly testing the individuals knowledge.
Click to expand...
I agree, but since many of the questions are quite irrelevant to flying, badly constructed, and in some cases nonsensical, the only way to pass the test without really superior understanding of both the material and the test writers' thought process is to study the test questions.

If I were rewriting the test, I'd leave out anything of a practical nature (say, the occasionally bizarre instrument interpretation questions where they give you an instrument and ask which plane it's in), and stick with more theoretical knowledge, such as weather phenomena. I'd also lose all the weather chart questions, since the charts all look different now -- I mean, when's the last time you saw a thermofaxed radar summary chart? There are so many variations of weather chart presentation that the only way to effectively test this area is as part of the practical test with whatever weather data source the applicant actually uses. This would be more in keeping with AFS-800's professed intent to test applicants as they'll fly the day after the test, not in an artificial construct created just for that test and discarded as soon as the test is completed.
 
Ron Levy said:
This would be more in keeping with AFS-800's professed intent to test applicants as they'll fly the day after the test, not in an artificial construct created just for that test and discarded as soon as the test is completed.
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"AFS-800's professed intent" :rolleyes2:
 
Ron Levy said:
I agree, but since many of the questions are quite irrelevant to flying, badly constructed, and in some cases nonsensical, the only way to pass the test without really superior understanding of both the material and the test writers' thought process is to study the test questions.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. I would like to see the question bank closed but the tests would have to change.
 
Badger said:
I was clicking around the internet for instrument ground school options, and I came across Aviation Seminars
http://www.aviationseminars.com/instrument.html

from their web site:
UPDATE: Over the last year, FAA has greatly increased the difficulty of the FAA Exam

Any instructors here have feedback?
Thanks
Click to expand...

I'm not an instructor, but I just took the class and the test about 2 weeks ago...

On my particular test, there was about 12 out of the 60 questions that I had never seen before in the class or in the book. However, the course teaches you enough to pass... Somehow I did ;)
 
I'd be hard pressed to say that it has been rewritten, there were a ton of RMI and ADF bearing to station questions as well as sample approach plates that bear nothing in common with those in use today.

Some of the material was relevant, but most wasn't. It seems like something that should focus on the regs since the planning and navigational issues will be apparent at the oral and practical tests.

Oh ya and NEW PLATES PLEASE!
 
airheadpenguin said:
I'd be hard pressed to say that it has been rewritten, there were a ton of RMI and ADF bearing to station questions as well as sample approach plates that bear nothing in common with those in use today.
Click to expand...

This.

I just took and passed my knowledge test today. I used the Sporty's iPad app to do quite a few practice tests. Many of the same questions were there. It seemed questions on icing and use of navaids were emphasized.
 
I'm glad the agency is revising that test. They should be ashamed of it as it's been in the recent past. It can only get better.
 
I got one of the new questions about icing. It was some poorly worded mishmash sentence obviously edited to try to trip someone up, about tailplane icing.

I'd like to see the trick questions that are contrived to have double-negatives and other things that are only testing English comprehension, not aviation knowledge, banned.

Ask the question, don't twist it around to make the applicant decide if the meaning was to give the answer, or if the test writer was just trying to be clever.
 
airheadpenguin said:
I'd be hard pressed to say that it has been rewritten,
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Probably because it hasn't -- yet. They're working on it, but what you see right now is pretty much what it has been for a very long time except for a few questions added in 2010 on icing, anti-/de-icing equipment use, and GPS.
 
Ron Levy said:
Harder? No. But they did add a stack of questions on GPS, icing, and de-icing systems use about 2-3 years ago. Just adds a few more rote memorization items to the list (like knowing you should activate all structural anti/de-icing systems immediately on detection of structural icing rather than waiting for some period of time). The test prep book software providers sent out and/or made available on-line some update packages containing the new questions, but they should be fully incorporated in any new package you buy today (as opposed to second-hand test prep software or books you purchase from someone who originally bought it who-know-how-many years ago).
Click to expand...

Wow really??? I must had fallen into one of the first groups to get questions about de-icing. I studied all semester at my college for that test then went to an fbo to take it. I was quite shocked to see questions about boots. I knew of them but hadn't really studied them as I had so much on my plate already and wasn't flying a plane that had any de-icing equipment. Failed the test by only 3 questions. I know I got way too many wrong that I should have known but had it not been for those de-icing questions I think I probably would have passed it. Its been about 2.5 years now and I'm really starting to want to go back and give it another go. I let that one test crush my spirit at the time.
 
That was my understanding at the time. In today's environment couldn't you solve that problem in about 15 minutes?

Ron Levy said:
Wasn't it an FOIA issue last time which resulted in the questions being released? Any reason that wouldn't still apply?
Click to expand...
 
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