Has anyone flown in the 25 NM right ogf a presidential TFR on a VFR flight plan?

T

timrj

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Tim
I was planning to pick up my plane from KOER and fly back to KISP tomorrow... But I just got an email from AOPA about a TFR at BDR... Argh! Mr. "Change" is going to be in the area exactly when I planned to fly.

http://www.aopa.org/tfr/#a=KBDR

IFR flight plan not possible - but just wanted to get idea of whether ATC will actually play nice and let me fly on a VFR flight/Flight following.

I don't want to be stuck somewhere - and I have to be in NYC later in the day so landing at FOK or MTP is not an option. He's effectively shut down all my options if I can't expect getting VFR flight plan/flight following from KORE to KISP.

I suppose though that workload might be low due to most traffic staying on the ground from the TFR...

Any suggestions?
 
I've done it. You can do it as long as ATC will play ball. Do you ever have trouble getting VFR flight following on that route? If not, it shouldn't be an issue.
 
Ron Levy said:
I've done it. You can do it as long as ATC will play ball. Do you ever have trouble getting VFR flight following on that route? If not, it shouldn't be an issue.
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Thanks Ron.

This is exactly my dilemma. Most times they play ball, sometimes they don't. Going outbound was never an issue for me since it was Class C and they just pick me up from tower on takeoff, but many times they don't/can't hand off to boston center or the other approach controllers.

I have to think about this a bit - don't want to get stuck, but at least I would have a good excuse showing up late for a birthday party.
 
I would be very wary of relying on opinions from a web forum in this matter. I would suggest directly contacting the ATC facility overseeing the area (usually the TRACON) and asking them your questions. Get a name of who you talk to there........It might come in handy later if you end up flying wingman with an F-16 or a Blackhawk, and being surrounded by guys with guns on the ground after you land.
 
I see three TFR's on Saturday for Obama,.. Philadelphia (10:15-1:45pm), then NY (1:30-2:45pm) , then CT (2:15-4:45pm). Seems like he has a pretty tight timeline, so please be vigalent on the TFR times throughout the day if you plan to go, they could change if he runs late anywhere in the day. :rolleyes2:
 
mswmsw said:
I would be very wary of relying on opinions from a web forum in this matter. I would suggest directly contacting the ATC facility overseeing the area (usually the TRACON) and asking them your questions.
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While there's nothing wrong with this, the odds are they'll say, "We can't make any promises because we don't know for sure what the traffic load will be when you want to do this." However, when you're going to/from an airport inside the 30-ring, they are far more accommodating than when you just want to transit the airspace en route from somewhere outside to somewhere else outside.
Get a name of who you talk to there........It might come in handy later if you end up flying wingman with an F-16 or a Blackhawk, and being surrounded by guys with guns on the ground after you land.
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I have yet to hear of any of that involving a pilot already in contact with ATC and doing what s/he's told. And if you're not in contact with ATC or not doing what you're told, that name won't help you.
 
mswmsw said:
I would be very wary of relying on opinions from a web forum in this matter. I would suggest directly contacting the ATC facility overseeing the area (usually the TRACON) and asking them your questions. Get a name of who you talk to there........It might come in handy later if you end up flying wingman with an F-16 or a Blackhawk, and being surrounded by guys with guns on the ground after you land.
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I don't understand the comment - If I comply with the notams I am fine. I just was curious about people's experience with actually getting VFR flight following in a presidential TFR. I have no intention of getting attention from a blackhawk or f16.

As Ron points out - I am likely not to get a definitive answer by calling anyone at ATC- they can't make promises. It would certainly resolve the issue to file IFR or just skip the flight...
 
Rob Schaffer said:
I see three TFR's on Saturday for Obama,.. Philadelphia (10:15-1:45pm), then NY (1:30-2:45pm) , then CT (2:15-4:45pm). Seems like he has a pretty tight timeline, so please be vigalent on the TFR times throughout the day if you plan to go, they could change if he runs late anywhere in the day. :rolleyes2:
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Yeah - it is the CT one that is right smack dab around the time I was going to be flying... Couldn't have planned a better time to interfere with my plans.
 
I would point out that given the President's scheduled multiple stops, it's possible the times could change or slip, so make darn sure you call ATC or FSS just prior to each t/o that day just to make sure you're not launching into a TFR which has just changed in time or location -- there is one extreme case of a pilot busted over a NOTAM issued 8 minutes before he took off (but there were other exacerbating circumstances). Once airborne, remaining in contact with ATC should be enough to stay out of trouble.
 
I've flown out of White Plains (HPN) on a VFR flight plan during a TFR. The only issue I encountered was getting FSS to figure out how to file the correct type of flight plan as it appeared he hadn't done it before. NY Approach didn't have any trouble handling my flight. In fact traffic was quite light with almost everyone canceling IFR and FF as soon as they got outside the TFR.
 
Ron Levy said:
I would point out that given the President's scheduled multiple stops, it's possible the times could change or slip, so make darn sure you call ATC or FSS just prior to each t/o that day just to make sure you're not launching into a TFR which has just changed in time or location -- there is one extreme case of a pilot busted over a NOTAM issued 8 minutes before he took off (but there were other exacerbating circumstances). Once airborne, remaining in contact with ATC should be enough to stay out of trouble.
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Yep - was planning to do that.

This makes me feel a little more confident - As someone else mentioned - I am not just transiting - I am terminating at an affected airport.


"... LIMITED TO AIRCRAFT ARRIVING OR DEPARTING LOCAL AIRFIELDS,..."
 
Tim,

If you know how to file an instrument plan through DUATS, then you might try filing a flight plan. Fill in everything just like you would if filing IFR but include your desired VFR altitude and, in the comments section, type "VFR advisories only".

This way ATC will already be expecting you when you make your first call.
 
timwinters said:
If you know how to file an instrument plan through DUATS, then you might try filing a flight plan. Fill in everything just like you would if filing IFR but include your desired VFR altitude and, in the comments section, type "VFR advisories only".

This way ATC will already be expecting you when you make your first call.
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This procedure is not in the AIM or any other FAA publication as a means of establishing a VFR flight plan for TFR purposes. The controller will think this is an IFR flight plan and treat it accordingly. If you're not instrument rated and current, in an IFR-qualfied airplane, that would not be good.

If you want to know how this is done on DUATS for VFR DC SFRA flight plans (and it's not how Tim Winters posted it), click on the DC SFRA link on the DUATS flight plan page. If you want to know whether that will work for TFR's outside Potomac TRACON, you'll have to ask the TRACON involved.
 
I called Flight Service last weekend to fly into a football stadium TFR. I had to be VFR because I am not current. He said, "I'll call them to be sure, but into the DC ADIZ I file an IFR flight plan and in the altitude block I put VFR025 (or whatever that was my altitude), and I put VFR into TFR in the comments." He called Nashville approach and that is what he did for me. The only hang-up is that I couldn't reach Approach at 2,500 and had to go to 4,000. The controller turned me loose to go to the advisory frequency when I was about a mile from the stadium and said "don't change the code until you are on the ground." I called Flight Service after landing to close, because I wasn't sure about the procedure. I told the briefer why I was calling and she said let me call them. She then came back and said, "It's take care of" which means I'm still not sure if it was closed before I called. Overall, it was pretty easy. This was a football stadium TFR though.
 
Ron Levy said:
This procedure is not in the AIM or any other FAA publication as a means of establishing a VFR flight plan for TFR purposes. The controller will think this is an IFR flight plan and treat it accordingly. If you're not instrument rated and current, in an IFR-qualfied airplane, that would not be good.
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This works fine and there was a long discussion on it a year os so ago.

Basically Checking IFR routes the plan to ATC not to FSS like a normal VFR plan is. The VFR altitude, the comment VFR ADVISORIES ONLY and some flight planners have a VFR check box next to the altitude all make it clear to ATC that you are not flying IFR. They always remind me of that at first contact and most transfers during the flight.

Filing it this way makes it easy to switch to an IFR flight plan if needed since ATC has the planned route and all pertinent data already.
 
Ron Levy said:
This procedure is not in the AIM or any other FAA publication as a means of establishing a VFR flight plan for TFR purposes. The controller will think this is an IFR flight plan and treat it accordingly. If you're not instrument rated and current, in an IFR-qualfied airplane, that would not be good.
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Ron,

I do this at least once a month and I haven't confused a controller yet!
 
Tim, even though you might succeed, if you're concerned about being late to a child' s b-day party, just retrieve it AFTER this election gets done. And get an IR (eventually). VFR on the east coast is dead.
 
The method works but can cause confusion (depends on the controller -- the folks at KCMH last year didn't miss a beat, but I've had Detroit App controllers and even LockMart briefers balk at it). Be prepared to refuse an IFR clearance if you want to stay VFR.
 
bbchien said:
And get an IR (eventually).
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Agreed -- you really need the IR for your airplane to be even close to a reliable means of transportation.
VFR on the east coast is dead.
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I fly VFR up and down the East Coast all the time. If the weather is cooperative, VFR through the Boston-NY-Philly-Balto-DC-Richmond corrider is no problem at all, as long as you know the rules, play by them, and accept that there are certain blocks of airspace (not all that big) around which you'll have to plan.
 
bbchien said:
Tim, even though you might succeed, if you're concerned about being late to a child' s b-day party, just retrieve it AFTER this election gets done. And get an IR (eventually). VFR on the east coast is dead.
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It was a 40th surprise for a good friend, but that isn't really the point. I did eventually wave off the flight -not for the TFR though - the weather just didn't make me comfortable.

IR is well under way. Probably about 100 hours in a frasca, a couple canceled check rides already - due to plane issues, my schedule, etc. IR is clearly the way to go if I want to "rely" on using GA for some increased level of transportation over VFR flights.
 
Ron Levy said:
Agreed -- you really need the IR for your airplane to be even close to a reliable means of transportation.
I fly VFR up and down the East Coast all the time. If the weather is cooperative, VFR through the Boston-NY-Philly-Balto-DC-Richmond corrider is no problem at all, as long as you know the rules, play by them, and accept that there are certain blocks of airspace (not all that big) around which you'll have to plan.
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Yes, me too. My usual route is NY city area to Burlington VT - there is really no time of year that I can't make the trip VFR.
 
timrj said:
Yes, me too. My usual route is NY city area to Burlington VT - there is really no time of year that I can't make the trip VFR.
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...as long as you're willing to wait a couple of days from when you wanted to make the trip.
 
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