Has an aviation law been broken?

SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Everything Offends Me
Fun little scenario:

I have a 14 year old son (not really, but hey, its fun, remember). My son flies with me, and for fun, I get him his own pilot log book, which he dutifully fills out after each flight we take together.

When he turns 16, he gets his private and starts flying a lot, all the while, continuing to log flights in the fun pilot log book I got him years before, as an attempt to keep a memento of every moment he was located in an airplane. Yep, I've raised a fine son that is as obsessed with aviation as I am ;)

One dark, dark day, he prangs the airplane doing something stupid, but he's alive and well. During the search, the FAA finds two Pilot Logbooks, one that shows his real flight time, and another that appears to have hundreds of hours of illegal flight time in them.

Can/Will the FAA bust him for falsifying his logbooks?
 
If he started back from zero (which no CFI in his/her right mind would let slide) when he began official lessons then the old one was just a diary right? I'd think it also depends on how he logged the old time and if he signed the pages saying it was true. That's just my guess.
 
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SkyHog said:
During the search, the FAA finds two Pilot Logbooks, one that shows his real flight time, and another that appears to have hundreds of hours of illegal flight time in them.

Can/Will the FAA bust him for falsifying his logbooks?
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I'm no legal beagle but I'm pretty sure the FAA can't come in and search your house for logbooks. If they ask you for one you should be able to produce something, hopefully the official one. You don't even need to let them know about the other one. In any case, like Danos said, it's just a diary or a journal...
 
I suspect the time in your logbook is of little significance compared to the time that you claim to have when it comes to the official documents (checkrides, medical, etc).

In other words--if you have some logbook with ten thousand hours in it--as long as you didn't claim to the FAA that those 10,000 hours were legal, you wouldn't have a problem. In the event of an incident the main thing will be the endorsements, signatures, and proof of currency. Hours don't matter as long as they aren't a requirement to something (commercial, instrument, blah).

I'm no FAR expert though--so take the above with a grain of salt.
 
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I'm just SWAG'ing here, but I'd guess that it'd have to do with whether or not he used the "illegal" time towards any requirements (e.g. 40 hours for private).
 
The FAA can do anything they want.

And there was nothing illegal about his original log book, especially since

§ 61.51 Pilot logbooks.

(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:
(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of this part.
(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.

Your boy isn't using the "illegal" logbook for the purposes of 61.51
 
I'm talking about having the logbook in the plane with him at the time of the incident as well as the real logbook.

But it appears the answer is the same either way: No chance of violation.
 
SkyHog said:
I'm talking about having the logbook in the plane with him at the time of the incident as well as the real logbook.

But it appears the answer is the same either way: No chance of violation.
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Simpler solution--don't carry a logbook in the airplane. Although, I've rented airplanes that have *ALL* the original logbooks in the plane, which I find odd.
 
SkyHog said:
But it appears the answer is the same either way: No chance of violation.
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Yeah, I mean I could pick up a few log books and log 643,438.5 hours in them if I want (I got the time). So long as I don't ever represent that as being my real time in any official way, though, I'd imagine that one doesn't make any difference... right? :dunno:
 
ReverendSlappy said:
Yeah, I mean I could pick up a few log books and log 643,438.5 hours in them if I want (I got the time). So long as I don't ever represent that as being my real time in any official way, though, I'd imagine that one doesn't make any difference... right? :dunno:
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What FAR are you violating if you did?
 
jesse said:
I suspect the time in your logbook is of little significance compared to the time that you claim to have when it comes to the official documents (checkrides, medical, etc).

In other words--if you have some logbook with ten thousand hours in it--as long as you didn't claim to the FAA that those 10,000 hours were legal, you wouldn't have a problem. In the event of an incident the main thing will be the endorsements, signatures, and proof of currency. Hours don't matter as long as they aren't a requirement to something (commercial, instrument, blah).
Click to expand...

IMO Jesse, you have nailed it exactly.

I'm no FAR expert though--so take the above with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...

Keep this up and people will start to think you are....

-Skip
 
As long as he doesn't present that diary to anyone as a record of his pilot experience, no harm, no foul.
 
SkyHog said:
Fun little scenario:

I have a 14 year old son (not really, but hey, its fun, remember). My son flies with me, and for fun, I get him his own pilot log book, which he dutifully fills out after each flight we take together.

When he turns 16, he gets his private and starts flying a lot, all the while, continuing to log flights in the fun pilot log book I got him years before, as an attempt to keep a memento of every moment he was located in an airplane. Yep, I've raised a fine son that is as obsessed with aviation as I am ;)

One dark, dark day, he prangs the airplane doing something stupid, but he's alive and well. During the search, the FAA finds two Pilot Logbooks, one that shows his real flight time, and another that appears to have hundreds of hours of illegal flight time in them.

Can/Will the FAA bust him for falsifying his logbooks?
Click to expand...


Negative, there is nothing to bust on unless he presented those extra hrs in that log book in furtherance of a rating. Those hours aren't falsified, they are factual, just in a different context. This isn't truck driving where if they find your second or third log book you get in trouble.
 
Henning said:
Negative, there is nothing to bust on unless he presented those extra hrs in that log book in furtherance of a rating. Those hours aren't falsified, they are factual, just in a different context. This isn't truck driving where if they find your second or third log book you get in trouble.
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If they find a second or third duty time sheet in your 135 records, you'd also be in trouble. That's the closest aviation equivalent to a trucker's log book.
 
SkyHog said:
Fun little scenario:

I have a 14 year old son (not really, but hey, its fun, remember). My son flies with me, and for fun, I get him his own pilot log book, which he dutifully fills out after each flight we take together.

When he turns 16, he gets his private and starts flying a lot, all the while, continuing to log flights in the fun pilot log book I got him years before, as an attempt to keep a memento of every moment he was located in an airplane. Yep, I've raised a fine son that is as obsessed with aviation as I am ;)

One dark, dark day, he prangs the airplane doing something stupid, but he's alive and well. During the search, the FAA finds two Pilot Logbooks, one that shows his real flight time, and another that appears to have hundreds of hours of illegal flight time in them.

Can/Will the FAA bust him for falsifying his logbooks?
Click to expand...

What makes the flight time "illegal"? What is "falsified"? Unless he logs it as dual received, or PIC, or something and then tries to apply it toward a rating.

OTOH - if you really do end up with a tax deduction that appears to want to really get into flying. Get yer CFI - now all that time is logged as dual received and once he/she gets his/her ticket you can point out to the insurance company that he/she already has a few hundred / thousand hours. And, if they go into flying professionally, all them there hours will help them land a job.

On the other other hand, assuming the original scenario, and assuming that the offspring was the one manipulating the controls, and assuming that you are a private pilot, and assuming that YOU have logged all this time as PIC, and assuming that you prang the aircraft, and assuming that the FAA finds this log book that shows that the offspring was doing the flying for time that you logged - then what? :confused:
 
Just write "not an official record" or something to that effect on the cover page, and sign/date it. Have a custom inkstamp made if you want it to look good.
 
My five year old daughter has a logbook that started with her first flight at 14 days old. But since I'm a CFI, she can count it as dual received.:D
 
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