Hangar Waiting List

They have a master plan that shows hangars all over the East side of the runway. They would put hangars across where the fuel pumps and current ramp are. They will be building a new terminal to the North, which will be closer to the runway and repaving the runways and moving taxiways so we will be up to speed on the new runway incursions rules (no taxiway can lead straight from the ramp to the runway).

The problem is money. It's a small town and they depend on TXDot funding. We have 12 new hangars approved, but TXDot recently said they didn't have the funding and postponed everything until the beginning of the year. Then you have to re-route the taxiway to make room for the hangars (and comply with the rule I mentioned above), put it out for bids, etc. We'll be lucky if we see new hangars in 2016. Now TXDot says their funding structure has changed and they don't see anyone getting approval for new hangars for a long time.

Add to that the fact that new city regulations say the new hangars have to have a sprinkler system in them and the cost goes up dramatically.

I wish someone would build hangars here like this lady did in Smithville. She made them individual buildings with simple rolling doors. No electric in the hangars, but you can put it in at your own expense. They still come out cheaper in the long run and they're square hangars so you get more room! Hangars

MD11Pilot said:
Mr. Fleeteood
I live close to Taylor and cannot understand why the west side is not used to build hangars and generate the income. The lack of hangars in Austin are the main reason I do not have my name on an aircraft title.
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Temple is a very nice airport with an amazing terminal, but their hangars are not the nicest and a county airport around here by far! They are simply pole barns with rolling doors. The tin doesn't even go to the ground in most of them! They are cheap, but my friend's plane is almost always dirty. The walls don't go up to the top, so anytime your neighbor has his hangar open, the dirt blows in even more.

Having those hangars would solve a lot of our problems though as most people aren't as picky as me! I have a polished plane and weather getting in would kill me!

DesertNomad said:
I bought my plane at Temple and those are some of the nicest hangars I've seen at a county airport... And cheap too! I think they were listed at $145. I pay $470 in Reno and our tarmac is a disaster compared to Temple. It looks like Temple used some sort of DG for the areas in front of the hangars and asphalt for the taxiway and main ramp.

I am on the west side of Reno and the wait list for the east side is 7 years according to Atlantic Aviation who manages them. No idea why they won't build more... They actually tore some down recently.
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Around here we have waiting lists for even tie downs (and the local airport authority booted me off the tie down waiting list because some high school kid they hired for the summer to call people on the list to inquire if they still wanted to be on the list screwed up and deleted me from the list).

Fortunately, a hangar became available to me at the next airport over.

I was based at IAD for years paying serious $ for just permission to leave the aircraft on their ramp (no guaranteed space even). I then moved to VKX and that was fine until the scoundrels at Aviation Adventures (who also did rude things like abandoning aircraft blocking the fuel pumps between lessons) twisted Wartofsky's arm to kick me out of my close in tie down so they could park all their planes together.
 
I'm not sure you'd be okay with it if you were in the situation. If a city has a published list of rules, shouldn't they follow them? Their own rules don't say anything about moving to the top of the list if you tie-down. Yes, I could build a hangar, but they have a hangar list, with a set of rules to get into them and they're not following them. I know there is nothing I can do about it, but I can voice my concerns.

I thought my analogy was pretty good! You're waiting in line for something and you want the nicer option, so you wait. Someone finds a loophole and they take the cheaper option, then request to cut in line in front of you to get the nicer option. You can apply that to many situations.

My lease just says to abide by airport rules. Some of the airport rules mentions things like you're not allowed to taxi at high speed! Another says don't turn crosswind at less then 500' AGL. Logical rules maybe, but how do you enforce them? What is to high of a speed? Who judges 500' from the ground? My suggestion was for them to review the rules and make sure they're not going against FAA regs.

Doggtyred said:
Im perfectly ok with tie down clients getting first call. Paying customers should get something for their loyalty before other guys.

The restaurant analogy is apples to oranges.

I'm sure if you wanted to build your own hangar on leased land the airport would be glad to sign a multi year deal with you. If you want to wait with your hat in your hand to rent someone elses building you are at the mercy of their rules, and they can change the rules at their sole discretion.

Is the straight-in bit in your lease? or just a general requirement to abide by all airport regulations?
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Here is a list of rules they have in place, on the city's website, spelling errors and all! My comments in blue, otherwise I didn't change anything.

1. T -hangars are rented on a first come first serve basis.
2. Potential renters are placed on a waiting list on a first come first serve basis. Not sure how this is different than rule #1.
3. The waiting list is published on the City's/Airport's website. This has never happened.
4. The potential renter may specify which T-Hangar they prefer or on which side ofthe T-Hangar they prefer to be (north, south, east, or west).
5. When a T-Hangar becomes available, the Airport Attendants will begin at the top of the waiting list and start calling potential renters until a renter agrees to rent the vacant T -Hangar.
6. While calling potential renters for a vacant T-Hangar, the administrative assistant will wait 5 calendar days for a response to the message left or email sent before moving on to the next person on the waiting list.
7. In any event, potential renters are called on a quarterly basis to ensure that their contact information is current.
8. If a potential renter decides to rent a tie-down, that person will retain their spot on the waiting list unless they request to be removed from the list. Again, doesn't say anything about moving to the top, you just don't lose your spot in line. Like waiting for a table at a restaurant but getting a drink at the bar! You're a customer, but you don't get to skip ahead of others. Bad analogy?
9. If a potential renter requests to be put on "hold", they will not lose their place on the waiting list. A potential renter shall request that they are put on "hold." Being on "hold" means that they will not be called when a T-Hangar becomes vacant. A potential renter will only be called when they let the attendants know they should take them off "hold." A potential renter may be placed on "hold" at their request for any reason.
10. To accommodate the economic development goal ofretaining and accommodating the expansion oflocal businesses through the use ofthe airport, owners of or personnel employed by local businesses will be able to be placed at the top ofthe list.
11. Multiple local business owners or personnel shall be placed on the T -Hangar waiting list on a first come first serve basis.
12. A refundable deposit of $150 is required before a potential renter can be placed on the hangar waiting list. This deposit will be applied to the first month's rent when a hangar is rented. Should a person decide to be voluntarily removed from the waiting list, the deposit is refundable. If, for some reason, the potential renter is unable to be contacted for 15 calendar days after being contacted for a hangar, a letter will be sent no sooner than the 5th day to the last known email or address indicating that the deposit will be forfeited in 15 days ifthe Airport is not contacted. Ifthe potential renter contacts the airport after the 5th day but prior to the 30th day, the deposit is not forfeited and the potential renter looses the space on the waiting list, even though the available hangar was rented out to the next eligible person on the waiting list. Ifthe potential renter fails to contact the Airport prior to the 30th day, the deposit is forfeited and the potential renter is removed from the waiting list. I don't think they've ever asked for a deposit.
 
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ibgarrett said:
I wonder if you couldn't just buy a non-airworthy aircraft and pay for the tie-down... ;)

What I don't understand is if the waiting list is that deep - why aren't they building hangars. Sure seems like the demands it there.
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I was thinking something along these lines.. Or find someone whos already on the ramp with no intention of getting a hangar, and offer to pay their fees for them until your name comes up for the hangar.
 
I think I'm somewhere on the list for Taylor. What I don't understand is why there aren't private investors building hangars at airports.


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I think the cities make it too complicated. Like I was saying, you can't consider each unit a different building, so as a whole they're big enough they require sprinklers. I think Taylor only offers a 20 year ground-lease too. They need to make that 30.

When I sold a plane in Lockhart, the A&P there told me there was a group of five doctors who were going to build quite a few hangars. I'm not sure if they've done it yet. They were going to finance them, the city would waive all ground leases, and when the hangars were paid off, they would donate them to the city. If true, it was an amazing gesture.

N2124v said:
I think I'm somewhere on the list for Taylor. What I don't understand is why there aren't private investors building hangars at airports.
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Lowflynjack said:
Here is a list of rules they have in place, on the city's website, spelling errors and all! My comments in blue, otherwise I didn't change anything.

1. T -hangars are rented on a first come first serve basis.
2. Potential renters are placed on a waiting list on a first come first serve basis. Not sure how this is different than rule #1.
3. The waiting list is published on the City's/Airport's website. This has never happened.

8. If a potential renter decides to rent a tie-down, that person will retain their spot on the waiting list unless they request to be removed from the list. Again, doesn't say anything about moving to the top, you just don't lose your spot in line. Like waiting for a table at a restaurant but getting a drink at the bar! You're a customer, but you don't get to skip ahead of others. Bad analogy?
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Well, with 2, 3, and 8 you've got them, but when you do something about it, you will find out that all the other rules about taxi speed, and turning final only apply to you, and every move you make on the airport and in the airport vicinity will be in violation. Small town politics are hell. Once you cross a 'crat with a smidge of power, you are the enemy, and you will be defeated by any means possible.

It's amazing the man-hours that will be spent watching your every move. But - that's what will happen.
 
Are the hangars all publicly owned by the airport? If so, you have a chance to make the airport adhere to the rules.

If the hangars are privately owned, FAA rules or not, you haven't got a chance. Trust me, I fought this battle for FIVE YEARS at our island airport (KRAS), and gave up after lots of small town politics and good ol' boy shenanigans. At the end, we were no closer to the top of "The List" than when we started.

We bought a hangar at nearby Ingleside (KTFP) Airport and have never looked back.
 
If one guy has the list, and is ignoring the rules, perhaps you should ignore the rules, too.
Amazing what can happen with a crisp $100 bill.
Not a bribe, just a tip for good service.:wink2:
 
I'm kind of sad to see this stuff in my republic. Makes me want to prefix it with 'banana' and we used to not operate that way.
 
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