Hangar Opportunity

GMascelli

GMascelli

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Display name:
GaryM
I am currently based out of KILG, Wilmington Delaware. Multiple long and wide runways, multiple approaches., control tower but not much GA life. My tie down is $85 a month. In the winter its a struggle to get the place I tie down at to plow the ramp and as much as I have asked I can not seem to move closer to the main hangar for electric plug in for winter, instead I run 300' of cord for my engine heater. Oh, the ride to from the airport is 15-20 minutes tops, straight shot on I-95. Oh yeah, T-Hangars here are @$525.

Yesterday I get a call from a local airport (N57) that has a hangar opening. Today I checked it out. Good structure, concrete floor, great drainage away from the doors, electric included, water close by and there is GA life everywhere, along with multiple BBQ grills (this has to be a good sign). There is a very active EAA chapter and the airport manager is a gem, really making things happen at this airport. The hangar space reminds me more of a pavilion with sliding doors to close everything in. The drive is about 30 minutes with light traffic, mainly country roads with one short hop on a major roadway. One runway @3700', bumpy as heck, low intensity lighting but slated for repairs and widening from 40 to 50' and I would think new lights. Currently one VOR approach. the plan is for GPS approaches once the runway is completed. Cost is $285.

I've been on the fence mainly about the current approach available but after more thought Wilmington is less than 10 minutes away if I need the ILS. After going back through my log book I have only shot three approaches to minimums into Wilmington since getting my instrument rating three years ago.

Just needed to rant I guess. I should pull the trigger and get my plane moved October 1st and stop thinking so much.
 
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It sounds like you want to do it, but you are looking for someone to convince you to do something you already want to do. Flip a coin, heads you stay, tails you leave. When you get the result, you will either feel indifferent, happy, or you will be saddened by the outcome. If indifferent, take the option that the coin said, otherwise you already know what you want.
 
Gary, I faced a similar decision at KMKC and KOJC many years ago. Then I counted the number of times an ILS below OJC's 400' VOR mins had been necessary during the years at KMKC. Best I could determine the answer was "none of the above" so I moved and lived happily thereafter. A couple of diversions over the years, of which one was a ring-dang-do, but all countable on one hand.

KILG, Wilmington Delaware. Multiple long and wide runways, multiple approaches., control tower but not much GA life. My tie down is $85 a month. In the winter its a struggle to get the place I tie down at to plow the ramp and as much as I have asked I can not seem to move closer to the main hangar for electric plug in for winter, instead I run 300' of cord for my engine heater. Oh, the ride to from the airport is 15-20 minutes tops, straight shot on I-95. Oh yeah, T-Hangars here are @$525.

Yesterday I get a call from a local airport (N57) that has a hangar opening. Today I checked it out. Good structure, concrete floor, great drainage away from the doors, electric included, water close by and there is GA life everywhere, along with multiple BBQ grills (this has to be a good sign). There is a very active EAA chapter and the airport manager is a gem, really making things happen at this airport. The hangar space reminds me more of a pavilion with sliding doors to close everything in. The drive is about 30 minutes with light traffic, mainly country roads with one short hop on a major roadway. One runway @3700', bumpy as heck, low intensity lighting but slated for repairs and widening from 40 to 50' and I would think new lights. Currently one VOR approach. the plan is for GPS approaches once the runway is completed. Cost is $285.

I've been on the fence mainly about the current approach available but after more thought Wilmington is less than 10 minutes away if I need the ILS. After going back through my log book I have only shot three approaches to minimums into Wilmington since getting my instrument rating three years ago.

Just needed to rant I guess. I should pull the trigger and get my plane moved October 1st and stop thinking so much.[/QUOTE]
 
GMascelli said:
Just needed to rant I guess. I should pull the trigger and get my plane moved October 1st and stop thinking so much.
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My completely un-informed opinion is that you should go for it!!

Always liked N57, although I do understand it's smaller... but, the opportunities from the "social" end are much greater. ILG is very nice as an airport, but always struck me as kinda sterile. N57 will be much different, and I do think that the "social" aspect is important.

Plus, you will be a bit closer to UKT for those Sunday morning breakfast flights!

Gary
 
If you move to the new hangar and later decide you don't like that airport, you can always go back to Wilmington, since I doubt they will run out of tie-downs. However, if you pass on the hangar, the other airport will offer it to someone else and your hangar will be gone. Hangar openings can take years, as I'm sure you know.
 
Do it Gary... Hangars beat the hell out of tie-downs, especially in the winter. And the only time I've shot approaches to minimums and made it in was when I'd specifically gone out to practice shooting approaches. Used to be based at MSN, with 3 ILS approaches. Now, I've only got a localizer... Haven't had to divert yet.

Enjoy your hangar! (And not running 300' extension cords, brushing snow off your wings, etc. etc. etc.)
 
Gary,

I am now based at HEF. It is the first airport I've been based at with an ILS (when I was at HAO, they had a LOC without glideslope, which has been added since). I can count on one hand the number of times I've needed the ILS to get home. For 99% of the flying I currently do, a non-precision approach is sufficient. Back when I was flying more for work, I used ILS on the gulf coast a number of times, and a few times elsewhere.

If that's the reason you're holding back, then consider how many times you actually use the ILS, and consider that you still have the option to go into ILG if necessary.

A smaller GA friendly airport really is a nicer place to be based. Easier security, less hassles, friendlier folks. Towers are nice to have, but no guarantee of anything. I've sat on ground holds at both towered and non towered airports...
 
Gee, I wish we had more bbq grills.
Sounds nice.
 
Gary,

I'll try to be a bit more helpful than you were yesterday. :rofl:

Your drive to New Garden is about 15 longer than the ride to New Castle County.

BUT

1) I'm betting that your time to taxi at New Garden will be 15-25 minutes faster than ILG , especially in winter,because you won't have to pre-heat or clear snow and ice off the wings and perhaps do a bit of shoveling.

2) Airport culture at New Garden compared to ILG is like comparing the the amount of water at Niagara Falls to Death Valley.

3) A trip to ILG without flying is a wasted trip where as a trip to New Garden without flying will likely have you hangar flying for several hours

4) If you need to divert due to Wx you can shoot the ILS at ILG and tie down for the night.

5) Its a shorter flight to pick me up at LOM.

6) The conditions at New Garden aren't all that bad and they will make you a better pilot.

7) If it stinks you can always go back to ILG.
 
One thing you might check on if the runway condition is poor. Ask to see the airport's master plan, or at least the capital improvement plan, and find out if they have programmed in a runway rehab. The same docs will show planned improvements to runway lighting.

As for the GPS approach ... runway work is probably not the trigger. The timing and minima will depend on an obstruction survey being completed, and if there are lots of obstructions you may get an LNAV but maybe never anything with better minima than the VOR. (Leaving out the fact that a VOR that craps out these days may never get repaired.) The surveys are sometimes commissioned by the airport, but sometimes by the ADO as well.
 
I'd go for it. We are at a smaller airport under the class C shelf, and we have NO approaches. (Interesting terrain near the airport) In 6-7 years I've only had to land out at the charlie twice. And it is close, so it's not a pain to move the plane later. Usually though I can follow the ILS, break out visual, and boogie over to our airport.

Our airport is much more GA friendly as well, the charlie is very sterile. No CD, no long taxi, no waiting on big iron/traffic. Win!
 
We had a somewhat similar decision when picking our home airport. As you know, we were based at Williamsport (KIPT), which was a very nice Class D from a GA perspective.

Moving here, we investigated into the airport options. For the house we ended up liking, we had two airports to consider. The closer one is a ~5,000 ft east/west runway with an ILS, full-service FBO, etc. The slightly further one is a 2,800 ft north/south runway with a crappy RNAV approach (no WAAS), but significantly cheaper fuel, significantly cheaper hangars, and an airport manager who really wanted our business.

We ended up figuring the number of times we'd actually need the bigger runway would be very rare, and with it actually being closer to our house than our home airport, not an inconvenience if we had to divert. I had to divert last year when I came back from Belize (or rather chose to for multiple reasons). No big deal. If I have to do it once a year, I'm fine with that. So far, been there a year and done it once. I will admit I would prefer to have a longer runway with the 310, but not enough to move to paying an extra $1/gallon for fuel and $100/month for hangar.

You will love having a hangar, and it will be a wonderful thing for your plane.

Go for it.
 
GMascelli said:
I am currently based out of KILG, Wilmington Delaware. Multiple long and wide runways, multiple approaches., control tower but not much GA life. My tie down is $85 a month. In the winter its a struggle to get the place I tie down at to plow the ramp and as much as I have asked I can not seem to move closer to the main hangar for electric plug in for winter, instead I run 300' of cord for my engine heater. Oh, the ride to from the airport is 15-20 minutes tops, straight shot on I-95. Oh yeah, T-Hangars here are @$525.

Yesterday I get a call from a local airport (N57) that has a hangar opening. Today I checked it out. Good structure, concrete floor, great drainage away from the doors, electric included, water close by and there is GA life everywhere, along with multiple BBQ grills (this has to be a good sign). There is a very active EAA chapter and the airport manager is a gem, really making things happen at this airport. The hangar space reminds me more of a pavilion with sliding doors to close everything in. The drive is about 30 minutes with light traffic, mainly country roads with one short hop on a major roadway. One runway @3700', bumpy as heck, low intensity lighting but slated for repairs and widening from 40 to 50' and I would think new lights. Currently one VOR approach. the plan is for GPS approaches once the runway is completed. Cost is $285.

I've been on the fence mainly about the current approach available but after more thought Wilmington is less than 10 minutes away if I need the ILS. After going back through my log book I have only shot three approaches to minimums into Wilmington since getting my instrument rating three years ago.

Just needed to rant I guess. I should pull the trigger and get my plane moved October 1st and stop thinking so much.
Click to expand...


Yep, sounds like the move to make.
 
Gary

I was gonna write a lengthy and detailed response, but I must have been channeling my brother from another mother Adam, so I'll just add this:

What he said!
 
SCCutler said:
Gary

I was gonna write a lengthy and detailed response, but I must have been channeling my brother from another mother Adam, so I'll just add this:

What he said!
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with Spike :rofl:

Also, Gary, in checking AirNav I note that fuel is 55 cents less expensive at New Garden than New Castle County. I know you get the year end tax rebate in Delaware on 100LL but no way its 55 cents per gallon.
 
AdamZ said:
I agree 100% with Spike :rofl:

Also, Gary, in checking AirNav I note that fuel is 55 cents less expensive at New Garden than New Castle County. I know you get the year end tax rebate in Delaware on 100LL but no way its 55 cents per gallon.
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I also don't know what the fuel situation is like, but I love the self-serve pumps at my home airport. I hook up my tug, tow the plane up to the pumps, fill it, put the plane away or go fly, whichever.

In the case of IPT, it was a bit different since they were a full-service FBO and would pull the plane out/put it away/fuel it, but to just be a resident with a tie-down, ugh.
 
Thanks all, sometimes I just over think it all.

I do get a break on fuel at ILG, 40 cents weekdays and 50 cents on weekends.

I'm making the call tomorrow to get things squared away. I'll be ready to move ASAP since no beach run this weekend.
 
Got to thinking that I've been a hangar tenant now for 40 consecutive years, sometimes as many as 5 at a time for the co-owned planes. Gulp! Prior to that the Mooney and then the S-Bo were tied down for a while at KMKC and the novelty of that arrangement wore off pretty quick. The combination of inconvenience, snow, jet-fuel crumblies, lack of storage and birdsht is more than a guy needs just to keep an airplane stored at the FBO.
 
GMascelli said:
Thanks all, sometimes I just over think it all.

I do get a break on fuel at ILG, 40 cents weekdays and 50 cents on weekends.

I'm making the call tomorrow to get things squared away. I'll be ready to move ASAP since no beach run this weekend.
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Gary, Gary, Gary....

I'm glad you are moving over. Stop thinking so much. I was based for 13 years in the Ts at KILG until the Bay Authority decided to start jacking the rent and I moved to N57. So, here is the scoop on N57.

The runway plan has been submitted. Funding will be an issue but Jon the AP manager is confident it will get approved. The plan is to widen it enough to get a GPS approach. I don't know the TERPS requirement to obtain an LPV, but that is what he is shooting for with runway width requirement.

The airport manager knowingly keeps the fuel prices down to encourage people to fly. What a novel concept. At night it is not uncommon to see heavy twins from the area fly in and fill up. He is doing volume...

There is a plan in the works to build hangars. You would be able to own it and the proposed lease rate of the land is very reasonable.

The airport is active. Fly-ins, EAA breakfasts, great air show and even hangar barbecues. He also hosts avionics shows and the flight school is active.

The VOR approach is reasonable for the majority of the weather we get. With Chester County's ILS and LPV approaches and KILG down the road, you have good alternates - but you will obviously pay for the overnights.

And the best news of all, I see there is a hangar open near me. If this is the one he is moving you to, you will be a couple down from me. Personally that would be enough reason to move ;)

Now the downside;

He better get the runway improvement project done. For you Beech drivers, it is no where the problem for us rubber donut Mooney drivers.

When the project does start, we will lose usage for some time. He has a couple of thoughts on how to manage it.

For 13 years I was spoiled by rarely needing to fly a crosswind, you will become a real pilot again...

So... How did you move up the list so quickly? Hmmmm???? ;)
 
wabower said:
Got to thinking that I've been a hangar tenant now for 40 consecutive years, sometimes as many as 5 at a time for the co-owned planes. Gulp! Prior to that the Mooney and then the S-Bo were tied down for a while at KMKC and the novelty of that arrangement wore off pretty quick. The combination of inconvenience, snow, jet-fuel crumblies, lack of storage and birdsht is more than a guy needs just to keep an airplane stored at the FBO.
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I won't miss any of that list, especially the bird crap!


Marauder said:
Gary, Gary, Gary....

......And the best news of all, I see there is a hangar open near me. If this is the one he is moving you to, you will be a couple down from me. Personally that would be enough reason to move ;)

Now the downside;

He better get the runway improvement project done. For you Beech drivers, it is no where the problem for us rubber donut Mooney drivers.

When the project does start, we will lose usage for some time. He has a couple of thoughts on how to manage it.

For 13 years I was spoiled by rarely needing to fly a crosswind, you will become a real pilot again...

So... How did you move up the list so quickly? Hmmmm???? ;)
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I think Jon said it was hangar 210, but I thought I saw a cub in that one yesterday.

I have the donuts too.....when I landed there it made my teeth chatter. :)

I have been on the list for a year or two, I think I was number 15 when I inquired back then. I don't ask how or why but if my friends put in a word ;) thanks!!!! :yesnod:
 
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I have hangars at two airports. CJR has a LOC and a pair of GPS/LPV approaches, but I always put down IAD as an alternate (which is in fact, closer to my house). My other one is on NC26 a grass strip. I have SVH with an ILS 6 NM to the north. It's rare that after descending on the ILS there that I can't VFR scud run over to my strip.

Back in the day before VKX had any useful approaches, that Dave Wartofsky published the "ILS into ADW with special VFR to VKX procedure."
 
GMascelli said:
I won't miss any of that list, especially the bird crap!





I think Jon said it was hangar 210, but I thought I saw a cub in that one yesterday.

I have the donuts too.....when I landed there it made my teeth chatter. :)

I have been on the list for a year or two, I think I was number 15 when I inquired back then. I don't ask how or why but if my friends put in a word ;) thanks!!!! :yesnod:
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I think 210 is up on the north side of the ramp. I'm down in the lower ones. The hangar near me has been vacant for a couple of weeks. The guy could be off field for an annual or late summer vacation.

As for the list, I do keep reminding him that an active pilot is better than one who owns a hangar queen. I doubt it made a difference in that he is a straight shooter. Like all lists, there were probably a few wannabe owners, a few who got out of aviation, a few who moved out of the area and a few who found something else.

With the situation over at 58M, I figured he would be pulling in a few of them as well.

Welcome!
 
wabower said:
Got to thinking that I've been a hangar tenant now for 40 consecutive years, sometimes as many as 5 at a time for the co-owned planes. Gulp! Prior to that the Mooney and then the S-Bo were tied down for a while at KMKC and the novelty of that arrangement wore off pretty quick. The combination of inconvenience, snow, jet-fuel crumblies, lack of storage and birdsht is more than a guy needs just to keep an airplane stored at the FBO.
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When I was living in the Holiday Inn outside of Boston for about 6 months for my work at a certain engine company (didn't make me any smarter) I had either the Aztec or 310 at Wiggins at MHT depending on the day. I went for outside since it was a short period of time (relatively) and I was still paying for hangar at home.

Probably the most annoying part to me was the rain that inevitably somehow made it in the doors and left the carpets damp. No damage, but it bugged me to no end. Fortunately it was short.

The bird **** wasn't any fun, either.
 
So long as the new hangar has electricity, I'd go for it. Buy a couple big space heaters to warm up the cockpit on cold days while you're at it.

The hangar will pay for itself over time in absent avionics damage and preservation of paint and metallic surfaces. Aircraft belong indoors when not in use.
 
steingar said:
So long as the new hangar has electricity, I'd go for it. Buy a couple big space heaters to warm up the cockpit on cold days while you're at it.

The hangar will pay for itself over time in absent avionics damage and preservation of paint and metallic surfaces. Aircraft belong indoors when not in use.
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may also have an impact on insurance rates
 
Holy Moses Gary! I forgot another key reason to move. How could I have forgotten this:

FAR 627 B1(z) states " A Pilot formely based at a class Delta Airport who moves his or her aircraft to an uncontrolled field and crosses state lines to effectuate said move and where said move is to improve the storage situation of said aircraft , shall, have a have a hangar party with plenty of refreshment, including drink and grilled dead animals for his friends and their families who live in said state to which the aircraft is being relocated and may also invite those from the state which he or she as removed said aircraft from!

Obviuouly this move is a no brainer.
 
AdamZ said:
Holy Moses Gary! I forgot another key reason to move. How could I have forgotten this:

FAR 627 B1(z) states " A Pilot formely based at a class Delta Airport who moves his or her aircraft to an uncontrolled field and crosses state lines to effectuate said move and where said move is to improve the storage situation of said aircraft , shall, have a have a hangar party with plenty of refreshment, including drink and grilled dead animals for his friends and their families who live in said state to which the aircraft is being relocated and may also invite those from the state which he or she as removed said aircraft from!

Obviuouly this move is a no brainer.
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So my first purchase is a BBQ Grill and some chairs then send out invites. So noted.....

I guess I should remove the mini fridge froim my office and get that plugged in at the hangar too. Must have cold refreshments available! :yesnod:
 
GMascelli said:
Yesterday I get a call from a local airport (N57) that has a hangar opening.
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The only concerns that I would have are whether 1), the field restricts what can be in hangars, and 2), if that would be an issue.

I use my hangar not only for planes, but also motorcycles, tools, benches, electronics shop, storage etc. I've even used it as the guest house when my brother comes up for the air races. A hangar is a VERY handy thing to have (unless they restrict your use), so if the answers to 1) and 2) fit my needs, I wouldn't have to think about it at that price, much less ask HERE. ;)
 
steingar said:
So long as the new hangar has electricity, I'd go for it.
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We don't have electricity at the field where I fly, unless we make it. Most of us have solar panels on the roof, and generators for when we need more power.

Even on the days where we have to chip the ice out of the way to open the doors, conditions inside the hangars are better than outside, and the planes are nice and dry.
 
Gulfstream1 said:
Especially with the pancake breakfasts' they offer. EAA Chapter 240 has a great group of guys!
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Welcome to POA!

I just read your pm, I'll make a few calls this week and let you know. Vince has my contact info so ask him for my cell number.

You will have to join Vince and I on a lunch run!
 
GMascelli said:
So my first purchase is a BBQ Grill and some chairs then send out invites. So noted.....

I guess I should remove the mini fridge froim my office and get that plugged in at the hangar too. Must have cold refreshments available! :yesnod:
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I just moved from Signature at KSAV to KJYL.. The first hangar I've ever had all to myself. $150/mo, I'm, happy.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
According to the sectional, New Garden has gliders. SOLD. Sign me up.
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Yep. Brandywine Soaring Club. They use the grass strip next to the asphalt runway. Very active club with a tow plane on the field and several gliders to fly.
 
I traded my tiedown at IAD for a hangar at CJR (35 air miles and an hour drive) in a heart beat. I still have the option of diverting to IAD (or even a few times I've just repositioned the aircraft there when I had short turn arounds I wanted to make).
 
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