Hangar Doors....The Good, Bad, & Ugly

[HangarSphere]

Hello Again,

Just trying to gather some information regarding bi-fold, hydraulic, and sliding doors. What are your favorite and least favorite attributes regarding your hangar door? Please be specific with your response. (Most of these types of questions garner the "least favorite" attributes. But if you really enjoy or appreciate a certain aspect of your hangar door, please share that as well.)

Thanks a bunch,

Lars Jensen

 

[Alexb2000]

Hello Again,

Just trying to gather some information regarding bi-fold, hydraulic, and sliding doors. What are your favorite and least favorite attributes regarding your hangar door? Please be specific with your response. (Most of these types of questions garner the "least favorite" attributes. But if you really enjoy or appreciate a certain aspect of your hangar door, please share that as well.)

Thanks a bunch,

Lars Jensen

Hi-Fold hydraulic. Third one, no real downside other than cost. The main advantage of the hydraulic is speed, it is about three times faster than electric. One note when installing them, bolting on the lock stops doesn't work well. The power of the hydraulics will move the lock stops. I prefer to adjust initially using the bolt on lock stops and then weld them. hi-Fold support has been outstanding. If you get any hangar door spring for the auto locks and remote control.

 

[Badger]

Wilson, bifold.
It's very tight, keeping heat in, and bugs/pests out.

Smooth and quiet operating

 

[Traket92X]

Least Favorite - 50 year old sliding doors when they weren't careful where the new asphalt went and the sheet metal is warped bad.

 

[N801BH]

I just installed a Schweiss one piece hydraulic door on the S&R heli hangar a couple of months back. Before that they had 3 single garage doors and it took them 30+ minutes to disassemble that contraption to get the bird out. When time = saving a life, the decision to buy the one piece door was a no brainer........

They also wanted maximum height clearance so I had to face mount the door to the outside of the hangar instead of stuffing it into the old opening. Not an easy job at all ...

Good door, kinda pricey but it is completely open in 56 seconds. When I build my hangar at 2WY3 it will have one of these..

 

[John221us]

I have only had bi-fold electric and sliding (on a T-Hangar). The bi-fold electric are definately more convenient.

 

[Alexb2000]

I just installed a Schweiss one piece hydraulic door on the S&R heli hangar a couple of months back. Before that they had 3 single garage doors and it took them 30+ minutes to disassemble that contraption to get the bird out. When time = saving a life the decision to buy the one peice door was a no brainer........

They also wanted maximum height clearance so I had to face mount the door to the outside of the hangar instead of stuffing it into the old opening.... Good door, kinda pricey but it is completely open in 56 seconds. When I build my hangar at 2WY3 it will have one of these..

Wow, what are the dimensions and wind loading on that one?

 

[LDJones]

Haven't used hydraulic but can see the advantage in speed, although would worry some in high-wind environments.

In the bi-folds my favorite is my buddy's Schweiss belt-drive unit with the automatic latches. That is a really nice system, which also allows for a remote control opener.

 

[Bill Watson]

15+ years with an electric bifold. Very happy, no problems. It's 'slow' but what's the hurry.

I added a factory remote 2 years ago. Even though I don't have autolocks, I never lock it anyway so it works fine without the autolocks.

Still haven't figure out what to do with the antenna to get some decent range. I guess I just need to add a cable and put the antenna outside. I don't know.

 

[SCCutler]

I love the electric bi-folds, but note that most such cannot be opened in the absence of electrical power - which can happen. Hence, I would always wish to ensure that there is an alternate means of opening, whether it be hand-crank, or the simple ability to substitute generator power for line.

 

[Alexb2000]

I guess I just need to add a cable and put the antenna outside. I don't know.

Always, R-Panel is a really good signal blocker.

 

[N801BH]

Wow, what are the dimensions and wind loading on that one?

It is a small door 14' X 34'.... Wind loading is on the engineering sheet so I don't remember the exact specs... But... I suggested they keep it closed while the heli lands and takes off. I do I had to do some serious mods to mate it to the hangar to keep it from pulling the building out of shape...

 

[Alexb2000]

It is a small door 14' X 34'.... Wind loading is on the engineering sheet so I don't remember the exact specs... But... I suggested they keep it closed while the heli lands and takes off. I do I hade some serious mods I had to make to the hangar to keep it from pulling the building out of shape...

No doubt. On a standard 16X40 Bi-Fold I use 8" square tubing 3/8" wall for the header triangulated with 6" Schedule 40 to the main frame. I imagine that one would take at least that.

 

[Piloto]

To me sliding doors are the best. No power or complex mechanics required, super reliable. They work so well that they are the favorites by Boeing and Airbus. If you have the side space go with the sliding doors.

José

 

[N801BH]

To me sliding doors are the best. No power or complex mechanics required, super reliable. They work so well that they are the favorites by Boeing and Airbus. If you have the side space go with the sliding doors.

José

Sliding doors that hang from the top do work good in warm climates. The ones with rollers on the bottom are problematic in snow country..IMHO.

 

[weilke]

Hence, I would always wish to ensure that there is an alternate means of opening, whether it be hand-crank, or the simple ability to substitute generator power for line.

A furnace transfer switch for $99 wired into the panel will do that.

 

[Tom-D]

Love the remote operated electric bi-fold we have on our hangar at BVS

 

[GMascelli]

Love the remote operated electric bi-fold we have on our hangar at BVS

Nice insulation neatly tucked in the panels and the best part of that pic.....the Re-Verber-Ray Infrared Tube Heaters. Installing the same systems in many of our older airport hangars.

 

[flyingron]

I have a Schweiss Bi-Fold 45' door on my hangar. Not a spec of problems with it. I have the auto locking. I also have rather heavy wood skins on the door. No problem. 2" rigid foam insulation on the inside keeps things nice and warm in the hangar. Don't have any handy pictures of the door itself but you can see it here:

 

[weilke]

Great picture. I very much like the style and looks of your house (in addition to the fact of course that you can park an airplane in it). Was this architect designed or did the airpark developer/builder provide the plans ?

 

[SCCutler]

Looks of things, the architect was channeling Frank Lloyd Wright. In a good way.

Nice!

 

[Alexb2000]

Awesome. Pilots dream home.

 

[weilke]

Looks of things, the architect was channeling Frank Lloyd Wright. In a good way.

Nice!

That was my first thought when I saw it the first time. Whoever designed it had a picture of the Robie house somewhere on his walls.

 

[flyingron]

The floor plan is pretty much 100% my wife. We had an architect turn that design into buildable plans with little more than "We like Frank Lloyd Wright" as a design style. The architect (Brad Docos, I'll have to give him a plug here) is also a pilot (he owns a Baron and flies King Airs from time to time) and does high end houses and airport buildings.

The picture above is taken from standing out in the middle of the runway (by my neighbor during a freak NC snow storm). There is a taxiway going to other parts of the neighborhood that passes in front of the garage/hangar entrances. Attached is a shot from the taxiway. The one other big change Brad did is to flip the garage and hangar (my wife had the hangar closer to the runway). Given the slope of the site, this allowed the taller hangar and the garage roof to share the same roofline (and those row of clerestory windows which really bring in the light even when the hangar is closed) by sinking the hangar down 6'.

What you see is actually only part of the eventual house. We build the essentials (hangar, workshop, garage, wine cellar, mechanical space, and a small apartment) as we are not living their full time. Eventually, we'll move into the apartment full time and construct an L parallel to the runway that will have the real living/dining/kitchen/master in it. If you see in the original picture where the stonework stops and there is a big blank piece of wall, that's where the other L starts heading to the right. The windows to the right will be where the archway into that half will be (the windows will be relocated elsewhere).

Fortunately, while our developer was pretty much a screw up (furloughed airline pilots aren't the smartest developers), he didn't put any real design restrictions on things. We've got some pretty amazing and varied designs in our neighborhood.

And yes, there is a lego Robie house sitting in our living room (along with the lego Guggenheim and Fallingwater....I'm out of FLW lego kits, I'm going to have to switch to the Mies and Corbusier ones).

 

[guardrail]

Where in NC are you? Love looking at the flying communities and my company has a large presence there. Always eyeing spots for future homesteads .

 

[Skylane81E]

Had an electric bifold at school, very nice set up, our old hangar had a manual sliding door, that was a pain in winter, even when the tracks didn't ice up the snow load on the roof would flex the building just enough to put the weight of the roof onto the doors. One year it took a bobcat to get the doors open and closed, that was fun.

 

[Alexb2000]

It is a small door 14' X 34'.... Wind loading is on the engineering sheet so I don't remember the exact specs... But... I suggested they keep it closed while the heli lands and takes off. I do I hade some serious mods I had to make to the hangar to keep it from pulling the building out of shape...

One other thing. I noticed that bracing on the bottom of the door. Seems like that would make it hard to plow up close to the building with that. Do you guys shovel the last couple of feet?

 

[N801BH]

One other thing. I noticed that bracing on the bottom of the door. Seems like that would make it hard to plow up close to the building with that. Do you guys shovel the last couple of feet?

Yes.... The truss at the bottom of the door is there so the front, bottom frame does not sag when open to the horizontal position... There is some hand shoveling needed in the first couple of feet. altho the heat from the inside of the building does warm the concrete slab enough to partially de-ice the area to a small extent... If you look close at the finished door you will see I left out the "normal" insulation batts..The best R value they provide is R-13. .. Our intent is to apply spray foam to the inside of the door for an R value of almost R-30... Unfortunately it has been below zero here for the last few weeks and I told the contractor to hold off till it warms up so the product can adhere to the door skin properly.

 

[Alexb2000]

Yes.... The truss at the bottom of the door is there so the front, bottom frame does not sag when open to the horizontal position... There is some hand shoveling needed in the first couple of feet. altho the heat from the inside of the building does warm the concrete slab enough to partially de-ice the area to a small extent... If you look close at the finished door you will see I left out the "normal" insulation batts..The best R value they provide is R-13. .. Our intent is to apply spray foam to the inside of the door for an R value of almost R-30... Unfortunately it has been below zero here for the last few weeks and I told the contractor to hold off till it warms up so the product can adhere to the door skin properly.

I'm going to have to start spray foaming the doors here also. No matter how carefully we put up the vinyl reinforced batts, they eventually tear in the wind.

 

[bigring]

I've had (and still have) several hangars with Wilson bi-fold doors. They've been adequate and have given very little trouble. No complaints. But our airport manager has recently built hangars with Schweiss hydraulic doors and I admit that I like them much better. Faster, quieter, more shade and rain protection when open.

 

[weilke]

Just from experience: If you are in snow country, a north-facing hangar door will freeze shut in about december and not reopen until april . The mechanism involves snow melting on the hangar roof during the day, running off the edge and puddling under the 'rubber skirt' at the bottom and refreezing each night. There are two ways to get the door open:
- Brute force, ripping off the rubber skirt.
- The towns hydrant thawing truck that blasts the ice away with a stream of hot steam (icing over the plane inside ).
So, if you are in one of those unfortunate places with snow and extended periods of below freezing temps, dont forget to include a heat source into the pavement right where the hangar door sits on the floor (resistance wire or a loop with antifreeze and a cheap waterheater and pump to drive it). Those infrared tubes are another option, they still leave you with a ridge of ice right outside the hangar, even if you can get the ice-dam to melt enough inside to get the door open. Oh, and if you get the door open, you wont get it closed once a couple of inches of ice have built up at the threshold (as it wont 'knuckle' snug against the building). South facing hangars dont have that issue as the reflected heat from the door is enough to keep the ice-dam minimal.

But then, you could also listen to my wife: Nobody should live in a place that cold anyway.

 

[N801BH]

Just from experience: If you are in snow country, a north-facing hangar door will freeze shut in about december and not reopen until april . The mechanism involves snow melting on the hangar roof during the day, running off the edge and puddling under the 'rubber skirt' at the bottom and refreezing each night. There are two ways to get the door open:
- Brute force, ripping off the rubber skirt.
- The towns hydrant thawing truck that blasts the ice away with a stream of hot steam (icing over the plane inside ).
So, if you are in one of those unfortunate places with snow and extended periods of below freezing temps, dont forget to include a heat source into the pavement right where the hangar door sits on the floor (resistance wire or a loop with antifreeze and a cheap waterheater and pump to drive it). Those infrared tubes are another option, they still leave you with a ridge of ice right outside the hangar, even if you can get the ice-dam to melt enough inside to get the door open. Oh, and if you get the door open, you wont get it closed once a couple of inches of ice have built up at the threshold (as it wont 'knuckle' snug against the building). South facing hangars dont have that issue as the reflected heat from the door is enough to keep the ice-dam minimal.

But then, you could also listen to my wife: Nobody should live in a place that cold anyway.

All valid points..

In a perfect world, and new construction you would install radiant heat in the concrete apron. In this site the door faces West and the prevailing winds blow out of the SW so that helps keep the area partially blown clean. I did hit the local Ace hardware and buy them a 3 gallon weed sprayer and 5 gallons of RV antifreeze... I instructed them to spray the stuff on the bottom rubber seal to keep it from freezing to the ground... So far that idea has worked perfectly and buying the RV antifreeze @ 3 bucks a gallon makes it VERY cost effective.. They do want to to jackhammer the apron apart and install PEX tubing to heat the first 5 feet that extends outside the hangar.. It is nice to work with customers who are pro-active and intelligent...

 

[weilke]

They do want to to jackhammer the apron apart and install PEX tubing to heat the first 5 feet that extends outside the hangar.. It is nice to work with customers who are pro-active and intelligent...

There is a little pitfall with the heated apron. Unless you run the apron heat long enough to dry it off completely, you will turn those 5ft into a skating rink underneath the fresh layer of snow. This may lead to the county snowplow visiting your plane right on the inside of the hangar door .

 

[flyingron]

Where in NC are you? Love looking at the flying communities and my company has a large presence there. Always eyeing spots for future homesteads .

Long Island Airpark (NC26). It's on Lake Norman (north of Charlotte). Find the SVH airport and look 5 miles due south.

 

[N801BH]

There is a little pitfall with the heated apron. Unless you run the apron heat long enough to dry it off completely, you will turn those 5ft into a skating rink underneath the fresh layer of snow. This may lead to the county snowplow visiting your plane right on the inside of the hangar door .

Yes sir..... (Most) of us living in cold country know the finer points of heated aprons and how to properly operate them.. This hangar is on private property so they don't have to worry about "county" workers, and their "less then common sense" approach to things..

 

[N801BH]

I'm going to have to start spray foaming the doors here also. No matter how carefully we put up the vinyl reinforced batts, they eventually tear in the wind.

Got the door foamed last week.... The company bid 550 dollars per inch of closed cell , Soy based R7.2 an inch foam...... Picked a day where it was 34f outside and the guy did a great job... Got the foam sprayed ALOT smoother then I even could... They bid 2200 for the entire job and we got a killer deal. Ended up with 5.5" of foam... Now the door has a 25 % greater insulation value then the rest of the building..... Overall I am IMPRESSED..

 

[Alexb2000]

Got the door foamed last week.... The company bid 550 dollars pre inch od closed cell , Soy based R7.2 an inch foam...... Picked a day where it was 34f outside and the guy did a great job... Got the foam sprayed ALOT smoother then I even could... They bid 2200 for the entire job and we got a killer deal. Ended up with 5.5" of foam... Now the door has 25 % greater insulation value then the rest of the building..... Overall I am IMPRESSED..

Wow that is a smooth spray job. I was thinking of just using liner panel on the inside to cover the foam, but that adds a lot of cost also.

NICE!

 

[JOhnH]

I have a Schweiss Bi-Fold 45' door on my hangar. Not a spec of problems with it. I have the auto locking. I also have rather heavy wood skins on the door. No problem. 2" rigid foam insulation on the inside keeps things nice and warm in the hangar. Don't have any handy pictures of the door itself but you can see it here:

Except for the snow, that is absolutely gorgeous. But I prefer palm trees.
I suggest a fly-in at your place! (in the Spring).

 

[flyingron]

That was a freak snowstorm (Inauguration Day 2008) and just enough to cover up the fact that my lawn was primarily dirt right then. I don't think we've gotten measurable snow but once since then and it was gone by afternoon.

 

[HangarSphere]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for all the constructive posts. I'm blown away by the level of participation. Keep it coming. It is greatly appreciated.

Lars Jensen