Had a friend die today :(

Discussion in 'Lessons Learned' started by DesertNomad, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. DesertNomad

    DesertNomad Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,193
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DesertNomad
    Crash of an A36 Bonanza on short final in Reno... got passed by a 757 and looks like wake turbulence rolled him into the ground. The guy has thousands of hours, is a CFII and owns a local flight school.

    :(

    RIP. Be careful out there.
     
  2. timwinters

    timwinters Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,956
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    X
    That Sucks. Condolences.
     
  3. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    40,149
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Crap. Condolences.
     
  4. rk911

    rk911 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    356
    Location:
    Wheaton IL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    rk911
    i'll keep a good thought for him and his family.
     
  5. pigpenracing

    pigpenracing Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,550
    Location:
    Brenham Tx
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    pigpen
     
  6. DesertNomad

    DesertNomad Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,193
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DesertNomad
    The tower on live ATC has my friend on a 4mi left base for 16L and the 757 (FedEx) on a 9mi final for 16R. My friend reported that he saw the 757. 16R has a displaced threshold so the 757 would have been aiming for maybe 2500' or so further south than the start of 16L. No word yet on a cause but it looks like they ended up parallel to each other.
     
  7. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    11,366
    Location:
    Port Aransas, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jay Honeck
    Condolences. That really sucks.

    Wake turbulence is not to be trifled with. It almost got me on final approach to Albuquerque, back in '04.
     
  8. rtk11

    rtk11 Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    648
    Location:
    Southern California
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    rtk
    Sincerest condolences to you and you friend's family. That's horrible news. Rest in peace.
     
  9. N659HB

    N659HB Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,157
    Location:
    SC sandhills
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    No. 1 son
    That really sucks. Sorry for your loss and condolences to his family.
     
  10. korben88

    korben88 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2015
    Messages:
    568
    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Troy
    Condolences mate.
     
  11. mscard88

    mscard88 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    11,035
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Condolences. Sorry for your loss.
     
  12. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    6,573
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
  13. Mike Smith

    Mike Smith Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,970
    Location:
    Prattville, Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fresh Prince of PrattVegas
  14. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,774
    Location:
    East Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    So sorry to hear buddy.
     
  15. SmashTime

    SmashTime Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    468
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SmashTime
    Very sad news my friend. May he rest in peace.
     
  16. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,207
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Stingray Don
    Very sorry to hear that. Prayers for the family.
     
  17. B Johnson

    B Johnson Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    BJ
    I'm so sorry for your loss.
     
  18. Badger

    Badger Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,757
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Badger
    Sorry for his passing.
     
  19. azure

    azure Final Approach

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,468
    Location:
    Vermont
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    azure
    Sorry to hear this... condolences. :(
     
  20. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Messages:
    12,517
    Location:
    kojc, kixd, k34
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Matthew
    I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.
     
  21. neilw2

    neilw2 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    438
    Location:
    MA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Neil W
    Terrible...sorry for your loss
     
  22. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    949
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    WI Flyer
    Very sorry to hear. A parallel runway setup with the winds blowing the wake into the final of the light aircraft can be a sneaky setup. Depending on distances, timing and winds, one may need a good margin to avoid. It sounds like he may of flown into Reno a lot, or was based there?

    Just another thing to be on 'red alert' about for many when we occasionally venture towards the 'Class C' or busier airports. It sounds like this was a very experienced pilot too.

    Again, tragic, condolences to family & friends.
     
  23. N3368K

    N3368K Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    652
    Location:
    Collierville, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JimR
    My condolences. Wake turbulence is no joke. I've experienced it and low level and it is scary.
     
  24. DesertNomad

    DesertNomad Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,193
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DesertNomad
    He was based here and ran a flight school. I have about 14 hours logged with him (he was a CFII) and two years ago I flew the plane that crashed yesterday.
     
  25. Pilawt

    Pilawt En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,821
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilawt
    It's even sneakier than that at Reno. The airport layout is conducive to light airplanes being well below the approach path of the airliners on the parallel runway.

    The centerlines of the two runways are 800' apart. The north ends of the runways are even with each other, and while 16L (the general aviation runway) has no displaced threshhold, the threshhold of 16R (the air carrier runway) is displaced 1,000'. And there is frequently a crosswind from the west, which would tend to drift the airliners' wake turbulence toward 16L.

    You need to stay above the approach path of the heavy, at least until it touches down. 16L is 9,000' long, which gives you a lot of room, even in the high D.A. environment. But when the heavy is overtaking you from behind, it can be difficult to to gauge the relative approach paths.

    KRNO.jpg
     
  26. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4,122
    Location:
    TX - the friendliest state
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lou
    Dang, sorry to hear about your friend, my condolences.

    I cannot agree more with the sentiment here, wake turbulence is dangerous, especially since it cannot be seen, only predicted and guessed. Thus not easy to avoid 100%.
    Stay vigilant and don't let it get you!
     
  27. midcap

    midcap Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,263
    Location:
    South Louisiana
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    midcap
    wow. it's like a perfect storm for wake turbulence.
     
  28. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    25,296
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Really sorry for your loss, but as you age more and more of your friends will pass. it's some thing you never get used to.
     
  29. PilotRPI

    PilotRPI Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    409
    Location:
    MA - 1B9
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PilotRPI
    Get up and go flying asap. It somehow makes it easier. We lost a good buddy to flying, and we all went up as soon as possible as we know that's what he would have wanted us to to.

    While it wasn't wake turbulence, I got nailed right before touchdown by turbulence from a giant taxiing helicopter. Make things very interesting. Can't imagine a 7X7.
     
  30. colojo

    colojo Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    614
    Location:
    Denver (KAPA)
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Colojo
    Man, I feel terrible for your friend and his family and friends. My condolences.

    I've read that wake turbulence from a 757 is the worst of any airliner due to the efficiency of its wing. My CFII and I were almost taken down by one back in 1994. It was truly terrifying and we were lucky to recover. I'll tell you, if you've ever survived a wake turbulence encounter you definitely never want to experience it again.

    I fly into KSNA a lot and nothing bothers me more about it than the very real possibility of WT encounters. The commercial and GA runways are only 500' apart, and you're almost always landing in parallel with a 737. I did just the other day. I fly very high, steep approaches there and have been lucky so far.
     
  31. FlyingElvii

    FlyingElvii Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2016
    Messages:
    333
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    flyingElvii
    "Sanford Friedlander witnessed the whole ordeal from the Reno-Tahoe International Airport, where officials say the plane was inbound to land.

    "It looked like it was flying normally for a moment, then it sort of just flipped vertically and went straight into the ground. Then a big fireball. And a big cloud of black smoke," said Friedlander."
    http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2016/08/accident-occurred-august-30-2016-in.html
     
  32. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    5,475
    Location:
    NM or AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    I can slightly imagine how that was like.

    Years ago in Alaska, a CH-46 crossed the runway in front of me (unannounced) while I was on very short final in a C-207. I was about 50 to 60 feet off the ground as the 46 crossed about 200 feet in front of me, right to left. I made a right turn to miss the 46 when all hell broke loose.

    For about 30 seconds, or years, I don't know which, I was watching the ground to see where we were going to hit. The ride was wild, beyond anything I had ever experienced in a plane before or since. I had absolutely no control of the plane. Later one of the FSS guys told me he had his hand on the crash alarm as he watched everything unfold. He could not believe I did not crash.

    I finally regained control, about 30 feet off the ground, about 60 degrees off runway centerline and heading towards some airport buildings. I made a tight circle back to land. I landed, taxied right up to the CH-46, jumped out, targeted the A/C commander and proceeded to show him how I felt about the situation. Enlisted personnel pulled him away from me, and blocked me from getting back to him. I still have one of his light colonel leafs that came off in my hand.

    I raced sprint cars many years ago. I had a crash where I flipped end over end, into and over the catch fence and out into the parking lot. That was nothing compared to the ride I took in the 207 that day.

    Wake turbulence is real, and strong. I never waive the waiting period to take off behind a larger A/C, and I do pay very close attention to where a landing plane touches down, and the wind speed and direction.
     
    LDJones and denverpilot like this.
  33. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Messages:
    12,517
    Location:
    kojc, kixd, k34
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Matthew
    We have CH-47s at my airport. They will sometimes hover-taxi across the rwy for various reasons. I make sure to keep an eye out for that.
     
  34. FlyingElvii

    FlyingElvii Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2016
    Messages:
    333
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    flyingElvii
    A local airport close to me has a Nat Guard helicopter base next to it, and they often use the runway. Same deal, be careful and just wait it out.
     
  35. colojo

    colojo Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    614
    Location:
    Denver (KAPA)
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Colojo
    I know this has been posted before but it comes to mind:

     
    LDJones likes this.
  36. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    13,409
    Location:
    California central coast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MAKG
    Is it worth asking to land upwind of the parallel traffic? It seems it might be worth the delay.
     
  37. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,774
    Location:
    East Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Yikes!! It's amazing how long that wake lasted for, especially from a blackhawk. I can't imagine if that was a heavy airliner. :hairraise:
     
  38. Pilawt

    Pilawt En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,821
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilawt
    At SNA the parallel GA runway is less than 2900' long, so not many options other than going around. And there too, if there is a crosswind it's usually from the west, blowing the wakes toward the GA runway.

    Over the threshhold at SNA I've also experienced jet blast from airliners holding short between the runways. Startling, but it doesn't last long.
     
  39. Cpt_Kirk

    Cpt_Kirk En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,257
    Location:
    Georgia
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ted Striker
    Sorry to hear about your loss.
     
  40. asgcpa

    asgcpa En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Messages:
    2,553
    Location:
    Illinois
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CPA
    Condolences