Hacker Briefly Flies Plane Sideways After Accessing Engine Systems, FBI Says

"The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."
- Montgomery Scott
 
I do not see how this could be possible. Was the hacker on the plane?
 
The affidavit says the he claimed to have done so. I have not seen anyone else say he did so (investigators, airline).
 
RotorAndWing said:
And since these flights are recorded, it wouldn't be difficult to go back and see if the anomaly actually happened.
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I would hope the flight deck crew would have reported an uncommanded engine thrust change...

I call BS. Guy is just trying to get his 15 minutes.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
I would hope the flight deck crew would have reported an uncommanded engine thrust change...

I call BS. Guy is just trying to get his 15 minutes.
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Yup. And his response is going to be that they know about it but are covering it up...
 
Even more interesting is the information in the "application for a search warrant" made available in this Wired magazine story.

http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Chris-Roberts-Application-for-Search-Warrant.pdf

And I wonder if this has anything to do with United airlines recent offer:

"United Airlines Will Reward Hackers With Up To A Million Frequent Flyer Miles"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/16/united-million-miles-hackers_n_7298292.html

I'm thinking that the aircraft designers dropped the ball on this one. At the very least you can hack a typical wide body jet and gain access to it's network. As to whether an individual could control the airplane from seat 3A, not too sure about that claim.

In this day and age, providing a somewhat easy access point in the passenger cabin certainly seems short-sighted.

Hard to believe.
 
Dunno what happened but if someone was successful we'll never hear the gory details. Too much $ to lose.
 
Total BS. If he were able to hack into anything it would be, at most, Airmap which rest assured, along with everything else in the onboard entertainment system, has absolutely no connectivity of any sort with flight management system.

As for the FBI, well yea, if you as a passenger are opening any sort of box or panel or something other than a stow bin and start hooking wires up to it I'm pretty sure they are gonna have a talk with you and hopefully lock your butt up or ban you from all commercial flight whatsoever for the rest of your life.
 
complete BS........he got his 15 minutes and now will fade into obscurity.......having been around Airbus and Boeing and Douglas for 38 years......the most amazing part of the story is two entertainment systems actually working on something.......LOL.......this clown claims to have increased thrust (overriding fadec) and induced yaw.......if you can control the bird through the entertainment system then the airlines are missing some extra cash. For all the wannabe airline pilots rent out a joystick and let all the folks in the back fly for 5 minutes only $500 on your Visa.........how cool would that be..........
 
Vf6cruiser said:
complete BS........he got his 15 minutes and now will fade into obscurity.......having been around Airbus and Boeing and Douglas for 38 years......the most amazing part of the story is two entertainment systems actually working on something.......LOL.......this clown claims to have increased thrust (overriding fadec) and induced yaw.......if you can control the bird through the entertainment system then the airlines are missing some extra cash. For all the wannabe airline pilots rent out a joystick and let all the folks in the back fly for 5 minutes only $500 on your Visa.........how cool would that be..........
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Don't be too smug.

I have no idea of the validity of this guy's claim, but we have done enough cyber security testing in the DoD that his claims are not out of the realm of possibility.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Don't be too smug.

I have no idea of the validity of this guy's claim, but we have done enough cyber security testing in the DoD that his claims are not out of the realm of possibility.
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Yes they are - completely out of the realm of possibility. I can tell you this with complete confidence and not a trace of smugness.
 
Silvaire said:
Yes they are - completely out of the realm of possibility. I can tell you this with complete confidence and not a trace of smugness.
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Well then, you would be wrong....because we've done it. Not with an airliner, but something close enough that I believe this is not out of the realm of possibility.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Well then, you would be wrong....because we've done it. Not with an airliner, but something close enough that I believe this is not out of the realm of possibility.
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What is not an airliner, but close enough and has a hackable entertainment system?
 
Lindberg said:
What is not an airliner, but close enough and has a hackable entertainment system?
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FWIW, I don't buy the 'hacking through the entertainment system' part of the story, unless there is some interconnect or common link between the onboard wifi and the remote engine monitoring system.
 
We did a pretty good job hacking that journalists Mercedes. Or does that not count? Ooops we aren't supposed to think about that stuff...
 
Fearless Tower said:
Well then, you would be wrong....because we've done it...
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You've done what? Manipulated a TMC or FGC by hacking into a passenger entertainment system?

Never mind I'll answer for you.

Nope...
 
Fearless Tower said:
FWIW, I don't buy the 'hacking through the entertainment system' part of the story, unless there is some interconnect or common link between the onboard wifi and the remote engine monitoring system.
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I think Roberts has a very good imagination. But I'm not going to get wrapped around the axel by a guy who travels in pajamas and toe shoes.
 
The FBI isn't claiming he did it, they are claiming he is claiming he did it - of course he is now claiming he didn't claim he did it and that the FBI's took his statements 'out of context'. I suppose the thought of going to trial and spending decades in prison on a hijacking charge might do that.

This guy has been trying to make hay out of this so-called 'vulnerability' for about 5 years, and his original point was based on a total misunderstanding of a Special Condition in the TCDS for the 777-200 - literally talking like epic-level stupid misunderstanding of the TCDS and Special Condition system.

If he did actually do it, which I believe is not possible, then he is guilty of hijacking and endangering the lives of everyone on the plane as well as people on the ground underneath it - and should feel the full weight of the law.

I believe this latest episode will hopefully end the charade and prove the guy is a fraud since the only way out will be to show how there is no way he could have done what the FBI said he said he did before he said he didn't do it.

'Gimp
 
Silvaire said:
You've done what? Manipulated a TMC or FGC by hacking into a passenger entertainment system?

Never mind I'll answer for you.

Nope...
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Go back and read what I wrote. I am not saying that I believe this crackpot's story in particular. Just saying that with the current state of technology and hackers around the world, getting into the computer system of an aircraft and manipulating its engine controls is not out of the realm of possibility. We (DoD that is) have essentially done it....just not with a commercial airliner and it wasn't through an 'entertainment' system.

If you want to make some big money, invest in Cyber Security. That industry is about to blossom like you wouldn't believe.
 
I bet what he was able to do was rotate the little graphic that showed the airplane on the map 90*, so that on the map it looked like it was flying sideways to the direction of flight. That is if he actually did anything at all.

He sounds like someone just looking for attention. If he weren't a computer nerd he'd be confessing some other newsworthy crime.
 
Fearless Tower said:
...Just saying that with the current state of technology and hackers around the world, getting into the computer system of an aircraft and manipulating its engine controls is not out of the realm of possibility. We (DoD that is) have essentially done it...
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I can't comment on what you claim to have "essentially" done but I can tell you that a modern fly by wire airliner such as the B777 or A320 is just that - fly by wire. There are no remote or wireless components to any flight guidance or control system and there is absolutely no way to "hack" into the computers outside of using a knife to physically hack into a wire bundle and hook up some sort of external contraption or device.
 
Maxed-out said:
Even more interesting is the information in the "application for a search warrant" made available in this Wired magazine story.

http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Chris-Roberts-Application-for-Search-Warrant.pdf

And I wonder if this has anything to do with United airlines recent offer:

"United Airlines Will Reward Hackers With Up To A Million Frequent Flyer Miles"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/16/united-million-miles-hackers_n_7298292.html

I'm thinking that the aircraft designers dropped the ball on this one. At the very least you can hack a typical wide body jet and gain access to it's network. As to whether an individual could control the airplane from seat 3A, not too sure about that claim.

In this day and age, providing a somewhat easy access point in the passenger cabin certainly seems short-sighted.

Hard to believe.
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So as I sit here reading this thread. The TV starts blasting how wonderful it is to fly United with their in-flight internet service....:rofl:

Is this just the beginning????:yikes:
:popcorn:
 
Well based on the article the one good thing you can get concerning United is that this clown ain't gonna be on any of their flights.
 
You wouldn't think it possible but I'm not too sure. There are geeks out there that have demonstrated security flaws in the software in your automobile. They've been able to do things like apply the brakes or turn off the ignition by hacking into the car's computer. Airliners have maintenance software that I could easily imagine getting hacked and allowing some nefarious person limited control. If this guy actually did what he claims, he's beyond irresponsible no matter what his intentions might be.
 
If it looks like bull**** and it smells like bull**** ...... guess what it most likely is ? For some reason there are lots of techie IT types out there with small man syndrome. This guy sure sounds like one of them. Wonder why he hasn't just applied to law school ?
 
Chris Roberts has been banned from flying with United, so they at least think there must be some kind of truth to his claim that there are vulnerable systems.

His tweet claimed to have had access to send EICAS messages on the 737-700, which could be used to send false information to the flight crew. Google tells me EICAS is the Engine Indicating and Crew Alerting System. That would mean he didn't have direct access to the flight controls, but he did have some ability to introduce bogus messages.
 
bflynn said:
Chris Roberts has been banned from flying with United, so they at least think there must be some kind of truth to his claim that there are vulnerable systems.

His tweet claimed to have had access to send EICAS messages on the 737-700, which could be used to send false information to the flight crew. Google tells me EICAS is the Engine Indicating and Crew Alerting System. That would mean he didn't have direct access to the flight controls, but he did have some ability to introduce bogus messages.
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No he didn't and no he can't. United banned him because he's a s hit stirrer and troublemaker, not because he has any capability of commandeering command or control of flight control systems. Believe me, for the umpteenth time, it's not possible. The Flight Guidance, Flight Management, Flight Warning and Thrust Management Computers are not connected in any manner to the internet or any cabin entertainment system whatsoever. This is complete BS and is simply not possible except in Hollywood.
 
Fearless Tower said:
If you want to make some big money, invest in Cyber Security. That industry is about to blossom like you wouldn't believe.
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Cyber security is an ancillary duty on all our federal contracts. My customer base is the DoD and there not a contract that I have where information assurance isn't a part of it.

Oh and I call bs on this guys story.
 
Read the following article from InfoWorld and then come back and post on this forum how this guy absolutely did not hack the aircraft's network and systems. Personally, I think it's already been done and the industry is trying to catch up, like everyone else. The comment and link provided in the article about the Boeing 737 MAX Advanced Onboard Network System was particularly interesting.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2912372/security/can-you-hack-an-airplane.html
 
I can't really speak to what's possible, without knowing the design of the various systems on each commercial jet. I know the information security field very well and how security breaches occur and I wouldn't for a second say it's impossible.

Some of what I read imply that seperation between the wifi system and other networked systems is happening via firewalls or vlans. If that's the case, someone probably assured someone somewhere it can't be "hacked" but they're fools and you're damn right it can be.

To sum this up, he's obviously a fool for how he has been broadcasting what he's done, and as a result he loses some credibility in my book. I can tell you I wouldn't bet a marginal amount of my net-worth (no matter the return multiplier) on the bet that there isn't an airliner flying with a vulnerability exposing a system of importance.

Our country is FULL of critical infrastructure that is easily hacked, much of which already has been hacked, and it wouldn't surprise me whatsoever if some airliners are part of that list already.

It's no secret that foreign powers have already "hacked" a substantial amount of our country's infrastructure including our power and water grids. They aren't executing on these vulnerabilities, instead, mostly keeping them as a weapon should they need it. It's not that they're TRYING to do it, it's that they've already done it, and could put our country in quite a mess if they so chose. This is the kind of stuff that keeps security people up at night...

There is a reason there is explosive growth in cyber security right now in both the private industry and the military itself. The reason isn't because we're trying to stay ahead of the curve, the reason is because we've already fallen behind and the powers that be are finally understanding the dire state some things are in.
 
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