Gusty landing tips..?

einepilotin

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einepilotin
Hello, I'm here today to seek for some precious advice on gusty landing.
I have landed many times in the gusty situation, but yesterday was the worst.
Yesterday I was landing @RWY 26 / twr advised me wind: 21014G20 + variable 6
With Cessna 172.

1. I was confused, can 210 at 14 and variable at 6 come together?!!

2. I was coming to final slightly high so I can dive down to the aiming point at short final keeping the high airspeed. Is this wise way to handle the airspeed?

3. Honestly I experienced very strong downdraft at short final, with nose dive down, my airspeed dropped to 62 -65 ... I almost added to 2100RPM, airspeed still dropping. what should I have done?

4. I touched down with landing gear, not nose gear but still was the bunny hop landing.

5. I did go around after 2 banging, but airspeed hardly builds up and the airplane hardly climbed up. I had to nose push down to builds up the airspeed just like soft field take off. I was really close to the rwy and airplane sinking into the ground a bit more and it started barely climb at some point.


How should I have done differently and better?
Any tips to share for newbie pilot ? Thank you in advance!!
 
1. I was confused, can 210 at 14 and variable at 6 come together?!!
NO idea what that means. perhaps you misheard. Or I am about to get some education.

2. I was coming to final slightly high so I can dive down to the aiming point at short final keeping the high airspeed. Is this wise way to handle the airspeed?
No, Sounds like a formula for a bunny hop landing

3. Honestly I experienced very strong downdraft at short final, with nose dive down, my airspeed dropped to 62 -65 ... I almost added to 2100RPM, airspeed still dropping. what should I have done?
Add power required to stay on the glideslope (IMO)

4. I touched down with landing gear, not nose gear but still was the bunny hop landing.
Too fast

5. I did go around after 2 banging, but airspeed hardly builds up and the airplane hardly climbed up. I had to nose push down to builds up the airspeed just like soft field take off. I was really close to the rwy and airplane sinking into the ground a bit more and it started barely climb at some point.
What was density altitude? What is your go around process (Did you forget to raise flaps), What are your engine compressions?

How should I have done differently and better?


You need to go out with your CFI in these conditions. Sounds like either a performance problem or just first time dealing with this stuff.
The first time you encounter things like this, they are a lot worse in your mind and seem more dramatic than they really are.

Now if DA was suuper high, you were suuper heavy, or have an engine issue, those are real issues.
I suspect practicing with another experienced pilot or CFI would
be the best decision.




Edit: Add 1/2 the gust factor and all that (your CFI should have explained that and it is in a lot of POHs) but staying high and diving at the runway is sort of like turning your body to fix a slice.
 
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Airspeed can be your friend if the runway is of sufficient length. A higher speed on final will give you more control authority to you can keep the airplane pointed the way you want. What you need to do is allow that airspeed to bleed off at you pass the numbers. Your Skyhawk will float in ground effect, but not for long. Those things are sufficiently draggy to loose lots of speed quickly. One you are in ground effect those winds won't have quite the effect they have higher up.
However, the one thing you don't want to do is force the aircraft onto the runway. Hold it off until it is ready to settle. Forcing an airplane into a landing when its not ready is a recipe for disaster.
 
A couple comments. 1) Faster on final is not better. Use 1.3 * Vso plus half the gust factor. 2) if I find a strong downdraft on final I'm going to max power and pitching for Vy. Also looking for softest thing to hit if I'm taken to the ground by the downdraft. I haven't hit the ground yet but have had 700 fpm down while full power and Vy in a 172.
 
I agree with Clark...good landings are slow landings, even in gusty conditions. Adding five knots for the wife and kiddies just increases the amount of kinetic energy that must be dissipated before the airplane will land. I also agree with Steingar, with the caveat that when you add airspeed you must consider that there will be a price to pay in terms of runway left behind.

Bob
 
Airspeed can be your friend if the runway is of sufficient length. A higher speed on final will give you more control authority to you can keep the airplane pointed the way you want. What you need to do is allow that airspeed to bleed off at you pass the numbers. Your Skyhawk will float in ground effect, but not for long. Those things are sufficiently draggy to loose lots of speed quickly. One you are in ground effect those winds won't have quite the effect they have higher up.
However, the one thing you don't want to do is force the aircraft onto the runway. Hold it off until it is ready to settle. Forcing an airplane into a landing when its not ready is a recipe for disaster.


thank you! Your tips are really helping me to get the right idea! :)
So basically I should consider gusty landing not that different from the normal landing?
What should I have done for the part of my airspeed kept dropped by 10 kts even when I had nose down with higher power setting?
I really had no other idea what else to do when I couldn't keep the higher airspeed with all that nose down and high pwr ...

And you wrote about holding until setteling.. so even with strong gusty wind, i just should keep the airplane coming down, descend enough like normal landing, straight and stable, only with a bit higher airspeed? And expect longer landing roll?

Thank you!!
 
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Well if you are slowing down too much, add power, but dont land with partial power except brief small amount of power for a small amount of time. Thats how you do bad wheelbarrows. Just lean into the wind with the ailerons and keep it straight with the rudder and adjust to what the gusts do to you. Once you are close to landing, ignore the airspeed. Just look outside and use your feet and hands. And keep it straight. If all else fails, go around!
 
thank you! :)
So basically I should consider gusty landing not that different from the normal landing?
I wouldn't go so far to say that. I do think some extra speed is a useful thing, so long as you have enough runway to bleed that off in ground effect. I used this approach once in gusty conditions at a POA get together in West Virginia. This was after a go-around at a 3K foot strip. I told Mrs. Steingar that if this didn't work we were landing elsewhere (i.e. unless you're out of gas there is no landing you HAVE to make. You can go elsewhere where the runways are better aligned with the winds are where conditions are less gusty). I used my approach. I did a successful landing, though I have to admit had the runway been 2900 feet I'd have had an excursion.

What should I have done for the part of my airspeed kept dropped by 10 kts even when I had nose down with higher power setting?
I really had no other idea what else to do when I couldn't keep the higher airspeed with all that nose down and high pwr ...
If the aircraft starts slowing and sinking pitch and power. Pitch down for airspeed and power up as much as is needed. Firewall the damn thing if that's what it takes. And like I said, if things are that bad perhaps its time to go elsewhere and let things settle down a bit.
 
Well if you are slowing down too much, add power, but dont land with partial power except brief small amount of power for a small amount of time. Thats how you do bad wheelbarrows. Just lean into the wind with the ailerons and keep it straight with the rudder and adjust to what the gusts do to you. Once you are close to landing, ignore the airspeed. Just look outside and use your feet and hands. And keep it straight. If all else fails, go around!


Thank you!!
So what I understand from your comment, Do all the power adjustment and airspeed management matter for keeping the airplane straightly descend down enough to the runway?
And when I am low enough, should I stick to visual and touch down without caring for airspeed anymore? I was actually more worried what if the gust push me down on the runway.. when I am about to flare.

:)
 
It sounds like you're flying the final leg too flat. Into a wind your ground speed is reduced. I either make my base to final turn in closer or maintain more altitude when turning final. Steepen the approach and trade altitude for airspeed when the gusts dictate. If you lowered the nose but couldn't gain speed? You didn't lower the nose enough. Probably couldn't if you didn't have altitude to trade.
 
Not sure how a gust could push you onto the runway, as winds are usually lateral at the surface. A microburst on the other hand, or wind shear... different story. When landing my Luscombe in gusty winds, I usually balloon when there is a gust. (But flying the Luscombe is a lot like flying a kite(!), and I don't fly when there are strong gusts). When you are in the round out phase don't worry about watching the airspeed. Keep your eyes on the far end of the runway, and move your feet to keep it straight!

Regarding the "variable" wind question, ATIS will often indicate when the wind is variable in terms of direction. Direction and speed are given first, then "winds variable 170-220", for example. Lately the winds at my airport have been quite variable.
 
Not sure how a gust could push you onto the runway, as winds are usually lateral at the surface. A microburst on the other hand, or wind shear... different story. When landing my Luscombe in gusty winds, I usually balloon when there is a gust. (But flying the Luscombe is a lot like flying a kite(!), and I don't fly when there are strong gusts). When you are in the round out phase don't worry about watching the airspeed. Keep your eyes on the far end of the runway, and move your feet to keep it straight!

Regarding the "variable" wind question, ATIS will often indicate when the wind is variable in terms of direction. Direction and speed are given first, then "winds variable 170-220", for example. Lately the winds at my airport have been quite variable.
If there is some topography (ridge-line, hills, or body of water) the gusts can have a vertical component.
 
If there is some topography (ridge-line, hills, or body of water) the gusts can have a vertical component.

True. We have a berm a few hundred feet from the end of Rwy 22 that gives quite an updraft when the winds are aligned with the runway heading. I suppose you could have a downdraft from a treeline really close to the runway.
 
It sounds like you're flying the final leg too flat. Into a wind your ground speed is reduced. I either make my base to final turn in closer or maintain more altitude when turning final. Steepen the approach and trade altitude for airspeed when the gusts dictate. If you lowered the nose but couldn't gain speed? You didn't lower the nose enough. Probably couldn't if you didn't have altitude to trade.

Thanks!! Yes! :) I always try to steepen the descent angle down to runway when x-wind or gusty situation so I can stop myself blew off from the centerline.
I think it is pretty smart but everyone of my instructors telling me don't do that, they say it's unnecessarily dramatic. So... You are the first person who thinks that makes sense..! It works fine, right?!!!!
I am so curious when do you level off to start flare after that steep approach?
And actually I do it to keep the higher airspeed.
But I read some of your other comments, that you do for greater descent rate rather than faster airspeed? :)
Don't you also pick up a lot of airspeed by that?

Thank you again!
 
I wouldn't go so far to say that. I do think some extra speed is a useful thing, so long as you have enough runway to bleed that off in ground effect. I used this approach once in gusty conditions at a POA get together in West Virginia. This was after a go-around at a 3K foot strip. I told Mrs. Steingar that if this didn't work we were landing elsewhere (i.e. unless you're out of gas there is no landing you HAVE to make. You can go elsewhere where the runways are better aligned with the winds are where conditions are less gusty). I used my approach. I did a successful landing, though I have to admit had the runway been 2900 feet I'd have had an excursion.


If the aircraft starts slowing and sinking pitch and power. Pitch down for airspeed and power up as much as is needed. Firewall the damn thing if that's what it takes. And like I said, if things are that bad perhaps its time to go elsewhere and let things settle down a bit.
Unless you're going to force her on the ground, you're only faster while you're not on the ground. In the end, you're going to touch around the same airspeed, meaning you'll wind up in the same place as if you didn't carry it in the first place, right? The extra speed, in my opinion, just leaves you vulnerable in that almost-flying-almost-landed state for longer.

That being said, I tend to come down fast because when I throw 40 degrees of flaps out, I know I'm going to be at the correct speed a second or two later :) But if it's that windy, I won't toss all 40 out and have to remember to be a little more careful about slowing up early.
 
The best way to make an airplane go down is to pull up.

No increase in airspeed to speak of. The steeper angle allows a safety margin when using normal airspeeds. To maintain the steep descent and slow speed the attitude doesn't require much flare. Landing a little long is okay because your ground speed should be slower than normal. Touching a little long is usually better than a little short.
 
So basically I should consider gusty landing not that different from the normal landing?

No. It is different but airspeeds for landing don't change. Adding 1/2 the gust speed is "enough" safety margin for MOST conditions.

How my brain thinks of gusty conditions is that my motor responses need to be FASTER and MORE ACCURATE and require much more concentration than a smooth wind day. I am also mentally prepped for a go around at ANY MOMENT which is how every landing SHOULD be, but frankly it's just far more likely in gusts.

What should I have done for the part of my airspeed kept dropped by 10 kts even when I had nose down with higher power setting?
I really had no other idea what else to do when I couldn't keep the higher airspeed with all that nose down and high pwr ...

If the landing outcome is in doubt, go around. Others have covered this but I'll add my story to it to describe a unique trait of single engine propellor driven airplanes like a Skyhawk for a little more info.

I've been microbursted to the runway in a Skyhawk twice. Both times the touchdown rate of descent was 1000' per minute at full power and here's the important part -- PITCHED to what SHOULD have produced Vy.

This is an advanced topic so hang in there with me for a sec. I had to learn this one the hard way twice and I like to share because it can be a lifesaver.

Before I explain though -- if you can pitch down without contacting the runway nose wheel first and the airplane is ACCELERATING, you MUST do so. You're too high for this next phase. Go around, pitch down and increase airspeed and FLY AWAY.

The scenario that happens next when THAT doesn't work is this. If the aircraft is going to contact the runway anyway and is NOT accelerating and losing airspeed, at some point you MUST flare. At least to a level three point attitude in a tricycle gear airplane so you do NOT touch down nosewheel first. This is last ditch effort and nearly an emergency procedure.

You're at full power, the runway is getting closer, and there's three feet left and the airspeed indicator is dropping. This is the scenario an instructor and I were in. The shifting wind from a headwind to a downdraft to a tailwind was happening faster than the airplane could physically accelerate at full power. This CAN happen. It's rare. But it can happen.

The last ditch effort is to PITCH the nose up at full power to something between level and what a normal pitch attitude for a Vy climb would be. For a Skyhawk this is usually "put the cowl on the horizon" for the last few feet of sink. You want the main gear to hit first and absorb the descent energy. And Skyhawk gear will absorb a LOT more than you think it will.

It's essentially a controlled crash. Keep the airplane dead straight with as much rudder as needed (more rudder required with slow airspeed) and hold the pitch attitude. The airflow over the middle of the wing from the prop will provide SOME lift and lots of elevator and rudder authority for control but the wing is partially stalled. The stall horn will likely be on solidly.

Like I said, this is "last second prep" for a controlled but very hard arrival. If the airplane will go around, even if it touches down during the go around, do that. Go around.

But if it won't (and you usually find this out by ATTEMPTING the go around and the airplane continues to settle and airspeed keeps falling, pitch down until almost in contact with the runway surface and then pitch up slightly and hold. And brace yourself because it's going to be a slam.

Hardest arrivals I've ever had in an airplane. If the nose gear had hit first we likely would have lost directional control and/or damaged the firewall and anything attached to the nose gear. The mains can take more abuse.

Now back to normal operations and your questions.

And you wrote about holding until setteling.. so even with strong gusty wind, i just should keep the airplane coming down, descend enough like normal landing, straight and stable, only with a bit higher airspeed? And expect longer landing roll?

Thank you!!

Multiple statements here...

Keep the airplane coming down... yes. You're landing. Down is required without power. If the aircraft is settling too fast power is absolutely required. Sometimes quickly. Same with gusts that change the pitch or bank angle. Respond quickly and smoothly to keep the airplane aligned with the runway, and on a reasonably normal glidepath. If any parameter gets too far out of normal, go around.

Bit higher airspeed... yes. The rule of thumb is 1/2 of the gust portion of the wind report. Adding lots of airspeed makes the airplane not want to land. Too slow leaves you too close to a stall in the low speed portion of the gust. Just a LITTLE faster. Any excess speed has to be dissipated in the flare in order to land with weight on the gear. Remember even below stall speed on roll out the wing is still producing some lift. Any lift means less pressure to the tires and less friction for stopping.

Longer landing roll... not necessarily. You still need to slow down in the flare until the airplane doesn't want to fly anymore. You're leveling off a foot above the runway and waiting for the airplane to land while adding more up elevator back pressure as it slows down. If you time the landing well you can still touch down at normal landing speeds. If you touch down before slowing a gust is likely to add enough lift to raise the airplane back into the air momentarily. You are never finished flying until the airplane is shut off and tied down. If a gust pops you back into the air, you land again. You may also find the airplane has slowed enough that it's going to settle back down too fast. Might need a touch of power. Might get bounced high enough that full power and a go-around is required. The bumpy ride isn't over just because the wheels touched down.

Now... all of the above assumes a certain level of experience. How many hours do you currently have and was this your first gusty wind experience? Some of the things above are best experienced with a CFI on board who can help keep you safe while you learn how fast and how far to manipulate he controls in gusty conditions. At the absolute worst extreme, you might need full control deflection of aileron or rudder and hopefully not elevator, but whatever it takes. At that extreme, you're already past the point where you knew the landing wasn't assured and needed to go around. Or maybe even go to another airport where the winds aren't quite so crazy.

Main rule summarized: Move the controls quickly but accurately and put the airplane exactly where you want it to be. Nose aligned with the centerline, center of the runway, and a reasonable glidepath and decent rate.

If it won't go there, or you can't make it go there, go around. If it will go where you want it do NOT relax at touchdown. Keep flying. Aileron into the wind, elevator neutral, rudder to maintain centerline or get on centerline. The next gust may create movement you need to deal with as quickly on the ground as in the air.
 
I've been microbursted to the runway in a Skyhawk twice. Both times the touchdown rate of descent was 1000' per minute at full power and here's the important part -- PITCHED to what SHOULD have produced Vy.

It was not 1000ft/minute at touchdown. Cool story, but needs a reality check. VSI has lag and you're forgetting that the touchdown was smoothed by ground effect. That would be just under 17ft/second, which will bend a Cessna into a banana. It's the same as crashing to a solid wall at 20mph.
 
It was not 1000ft/minute at touchdown. Cool story, but needs a reality check. VSI has lag and you're forgetting that the touchdown was smoothed by ground effect. That would be just under 17ft/second, which will bend a Cessna into a banana. It's the same as crashing to a solid wall at 20mph.

Well I never did the physics math (thanks by the way), but I can only go on what the instrument read just prior to slamming into the pavement. You are correct of course.

Plus the airplane was trying to accelerate. It just couldn't much. "Hanging on the prop..." is a real thing in Cessna singles. Technically below stall speed but not fully stalled across the entire wing. Full power. And going down. Microbursts SUCK.

My old instructor and I rehash this and have rehashed it for years and worked out all the details and neither one of us ever wants to ever ever do it again. And he's got thousands and thousands of hours teaching and flies airliners for a living now for 30 years. He's never seen anything like it before or since.

What amazes both of us and gives us both pause is that we knew what had just happened, we both somehow convinced ourselves that the localized weather phenomena was over with, and proceeded to go do it again. It happened only 100' further down that runway the second time and could have just as easily have been 100' before the runway with devastating results.

Looking back we both do not like either of us not saying "Nope, we are done." that day and it is a good example of group think from two people in a cockpit who wanted to get other things done that day.

Appreciate the math check though. Correct. The VSI read 1000' down just prior to impact and I learned what "spring steel" landing gear meant that day. Never seen a Skyhawk squish that far down on touchdown since, and hope never to see it again. It TRIED to bounce us back into the air, like most botched Cessna singles try to do, but the wind shift to a tailwind and lack of time to accelerate meant the airspeed was too low. It rebounded and we were rolling and accelerating at full power on all the gear.

NOT a normal day and I only share it as a story to help folks realize you have to keep flying it, even if it's just going to hit the ground hard. Flight controls at that point are for the safest attitude. Main gear first. Under as much control as possible. Straight. And hang on.

By the way. We DID ask maintenance to look over the aircraft after that and they did. No damage. But it was hard enough it wasn't an option not to check gear attach points and gear and all components. We wrote it up and told the owner and then he handled the phone call for more details and questions from the mechanic.

Strangely... but not. The best flight lesson I ever paid for. But I'd never ask to do it again willingly.
 
We get virga up here all the time, and microbursts can be downright scary at times. Two days ago, we took off for a 30min ride, it was variable at 4 with clear skies. When we approached the pattern, it was 21G35, with virga everywhere (a cell appeared out of nowhere 2 miles south of the field). I joined downwind for the runway winds were favoring at that time, and while turning base it was obvious it wasn't going to work - wind had shifted 60 degrees during my downwind. I hit a 1500fpm downdraft at my go-around (which on a lightly loaded turbo 207 is A LOT!!), went around, and landed on the other side. We knew where to expect the downdrafts so we had plenty of altitude and airspeed, I'm glad no-one with no experience at these conditions was attempting to land normally when that was going on...
Whatever the numbers are - downdrafts and microbursts should not be played with. When a lightly loaded 207, at full power VY, still falls down 1500fpm, you know sh*ts serious there.
 
Whatever the numbers are - downdrafts and microbursts should not be played with. When a lightly loaded 207, at full power VY, still falls down 1500fpm, you know sh*ts serious there.

Yup. And we had signs too. No virga close by, but not that many miles away there was a line of it and dust devils showing circles in farmlands on the other side of the airport from the virga, all from thunderstorms right at that "magic" 20 mile distance we are all taught about behind the virga.

Light aircraft just do not have the excess horsepower needed to tackle the downdrafts that even a bog standard thunderstorm can dish out miles from the storm. Precip that is evaporating as it falls is also accelerated by cooling. Insidious. It looks like decent weather and instead it's a sign of overpowering downward winds.

Where we were was sunny and clear geographically in-between two known signs of massive downdrafts.

In hindsight and for years now, we both know it wasn't out brightest day mentally.

Anyway to get back to the OP... if the gusts are being caused by thunderstorms within 20 miles that have visible moisture falling, even if it's not hitting the surface in dry air below the storm, beware. These are weather phenomena that exceed the capabilities of most light aircraft to climb in.

And that's probably a good question. Do you know what weather circumstances triggered your gusty winds?
 
Listen to the CFIs here. Good advice on keeping it slow.

All I can add is that you get used to it. The grass strip I hangar at has trees on the east side near the runway. Approach with an easterly win can be fun with the rolling moment produced by the trees. Then there is no wind below the trees.

Any anywhere in Oklahoma and Kansas can be fun. Still the same: 1.3 vso, and the rest of the technique.

But like I said- you get used to it.
 
Hello, I'm here today to seek for some precious advice on gusty landing.
I have landed many times in the gusty situation, but yesterday was the worst.
Yesterday I was landing @RWY 26 / twr advised me wind: 21014G20 + variable 6
With Cessna 172.

1. I was confused, can 210 at 14 and variable at 6 come together?!!

2. I was coming to final slightly high so I can dive down to the aiming point at short final keeping the high airspeed. Is this wise way to handle the airspeed?

3. Honestly I experienced very strong downdraft at short final, with nose dive down, my airspeed dropped to 62 -65 ... I almost added to 2100RPM, airspeed still dropping. what should I have done?

4. I touched down with landing gear, not nose gear but still was the bunny hop landing.

5. I did go around after 2 banging, but airspeed hardly builds up and the airplane hardly climbed up. I had to nose push down to builds up the airspeed just like soft field take off. I was really close to the rwy and airplane sinking into the ground a bit more and it started barely climb at some point.


How should I have done differently and better?
Any tips to share for newbie pilot ? Thank you in advance!!
Good thread. I've gotten a lot of good techniques from it. Variable is the direction of the wind. I've never heard it said quite like that. Did he literally say it just like that, "plus variable six?" I'm pretty sure in METARS variable wind direction is only reported if it exceeds 60 degrees. Tower is not supposed to be quoting the latest METAR when giving a wind check. They have the real time wind right there in front of them. Verbally it should sound something like "wind, 160 variable 250, 14 gusting 20."
 
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thank you! Your tips are really helping me to get the right idea! :)
So basically I should consider gusty landing not that different from the normal landing?
What should I have done for the part of my airspeed kept dropped by 10 kts even when I had nose down with higher power setting?
I really had no other idea what else to do when I couldn't keep the higher airspeed with all that nose down and high pwr ...

And you wrote about holding until setteling.. so even with strong gusty wind, i just should keep the airplane coming down, descend enough like normal landing, straight and stable, only with a bit higher airspeed? And expect longer landing roll?

Thank you!!

IMHO you should not even be looking at the airspeed indicator; the Wright brothers did just fine without one. Back in the day, I had students fly at least one pattern with the airspeed indicator covered...as a VFR pilot you should be using visual cues.

Bob
 
...as a VFR pilot you should be using visual cues
What are the visual cues for airspeed when flying VFR? I am assuming you mean something other than other instruments.
 
Isn't the rule-of-thumb to add 1/2 the gust factor to stall s
What are the visual cues for airspeed when flying VFR? I am assuming you mean something other than other instruments.

I think he means during the round-out and flare. My last peek at the ASI is when I'm over the numbers.
 
In my humble opinion, I understand there are many different approach to this topic, but they all share a lot in common. In the end you are going to be doing what works best for you but it is always wise to build your technique based on the standard and taking into account all the safety and procedures recommendation before adjusting them for you. Definitely a great idea to fly one or two times with different CFIs or pilots, that will help you to open your mind, hear different ways to get the same result, a safe landing that will be done the same way over and over regardless of the conditions as those values change you adjust your technique.

To answer your questions (With my opinion, not necessarily the only way or the right way per say):

#1 Confused me as well, as you usually should get the wind direction including variable if it is, and then the speed with gusting if there is, maybe you were focused on the landing workload and did not got it in the order or got confused after that, or maybe the ATC just did a mistake, after all we are all humans and they do mistakes as well. We could all be missing something in this one, and maybe someone else will be able to help with that!

#2 I don't think diving into the runway is a wise thing to do, specially if you are not even confident about your landing technique, can it be done yes, can it be done and end in a good way - again yes, but it will require a lot of experience and it is not necessarily at all, there is not need to save a landing or an approach for that matter. You are not doing a mission and it is not your mission to save a landing.

#3 Kind of the same as in number 2 here. You don't save a landing! You are not doing an emergency landing and have not other issues that will indicate that going around would not be better than saving your landing. I was once told the best way to save or fix you landing is going around, and a great landing begins with a great approach/patter. Speed is important and it is set for a reason, there are time where you can bring an extra knot but there is always a trade for that, the important thing in that case is how used to that are you? and to make sure you can deal with that trade, for example runway length or so. I will advise to make sure you can maintain the speed as close to the recommended as possible, you don't need to be high for wind conditions so make sure you use the proper altitude base on your position for both straight approach and traffic patterns, and then adjust power as required to maintain your speed and altitude, if you get such a big downdraft full throttle and around you go, come back and try it again, and extra 10 mins/20 mins of flight time is not worth compared to your safety or other people safety or even just hitting the ground OK but breaking the aircraft, I would pay the extra dollars for those 10 mins of my go around!

#4 There are many ways instructors help students to get smooth landings, although you can always have a bad day, that should not be the rule, just an one time thing right? I would recommend to try one thing I learned once: Set up for a good approach, get your final right and make sure you are stabilized (no steep turns on final and no big changes on pitch or vertical speed) once you get close to the runway or as you are getting closer, trim the aircraft for another 2 o 3 degrees of nose up (this is not exactly something you will measure, but you will learn to fill with time) and bring the yoke back a little bit, let the aircraft transition into ground effect, it will stop dropping for a few seconds if you trim properly and hold the pressure on your yoke, as you fill that it will start now dropping again (as you bleed your speed and loose the energy) it will try to drop and you will bring the yoke a little bit more to the back and keep that additional pressure on it, this is done incrementally and by stages, every time it tends to drop you bring the yoke back further, always one hand on the gas in case you need to go around (you never know when you will need it) remember you have to fly the aircraft all the way to a full stop. Again, this is not maybe the best way, definitely not the only way, but it does works for me and I got instructed to do it this way and other ways, I liked this one.
I had one instructor who always had me coming high until turning base to final, and then set throttle to idle and full flap with a big nose down attitude, I won't recommend that as a regular practice!!

#5 I do believe you should go and practice a couple landings and go around with your instructor and if possible at least another one that you don't usually fly with, he can see something different on you, and also that different communication will help you a lot! But for your go around you were set wrong from the moment you started bouncing, you have to realize that the aircraft is reacting but still with some lag, remember it takes a little bit for your inputs to make a change, if you fight the aircraft you will do a go around moving it all over the place, set your take off power and do small adjustments as necessary to keep a small angle climb, provided you have started your go around procedure early enough (hence the importance of not trying to save a bad landing) you should have good remaining runway, just make sure that you stabilize the jumps by adding power and setting the right pressure on the yoke, first to stop the bouncing effect and the to establish a slow climb, this will help to eliminate the abrupt movements and set you up on a climb, once you confirm a positive rate of climb make sure that you start trading your speed with you rate by gradually changing to a bit more nose up attitude until establish on your proper climb procedure per yous POH (Speed Vy or Vx based on you POH+aircraft and actual conditions, runway obstacle and so on)

Again, my answer is not the best nor the only way, but this works for me and should keep you safe if you first go try it with a CFI.
I hope you fine you way with practice and time.
 
Agree with an earlier post that said work the controls as much as needed to maintain positive control, and always be prepared for a go around.
 
Nope. Diving adds airspeed which is something you don't want on a short field. Slip it in. Big honkin' slip if needed even though it freaks Bob out and he says use some "throttle".:)
Well, I kinda thought we'd all assume that the dive wouldn't be just pushing the nose over.
 
Hello, I'm here today to seek for some precious advice on gusty landing.
I have landed many times in the gusty situation, but yesterday was the worst.
Yesterday I was landing @RWY 26 / twr advised me wind: 21014G20 + variable 6
With Cessna 172.

1. I was confused, can 210 at 14 and variable at 6 come together?!!

2. I was coming to final slightly high so I can dive down to the aiming point at short final keeping the high airspeed. Is this wise way to handle the airspeed?

3. Honestly I experienced very strong downdraft at short final, with nose dive down, my airspeed dropped to 62 -65 ... I almost added to 2100RPM, airspeed still dropping. what should I have done?

4. I touched down with landing gear, not nose gear but still was the bunny hop landing.

5. I did go around after 2 banging, but airspeed hardly builds up and the airplane hardly climbed up. I had to nose push down to builds up the airspeed just like soft field take off. I was really close to the rwy and airplane sinking into the ground a bit more and it started barely climb at some point.


How should I have done differently and better?
Any tips to share for newbie pilot ? Thank you in advance!!

First, you had a crosswind component of 11-15 knots. So during a gust you were approaching the max demonstrated cross wind for a 172. Not a good plan for a newbie.


1. Flaps 20
2. A higher than normal side slipping power on approach.
3. An aiming point 500 ft farther down the runway.
4. 5 KIAS gust factor added to your approach speed.
5. Plan to use 50% more runway than you normally do.
6. Control wheel full into the wind and full rear as soon as the plane is stable.
 
Well, I kinda thought we'd all assume that the dive wouldn't be just pushing the nose over.
You know what assume does? ass/u/me. The OP said dive, not slip. You said dive, not slip. Signal all turns, contents may settle during shipping, objects in the mirror are dirtier than they appear, YMWV, HTH, and HAND.
 
You know what assume does? ass/u/me. The OP said dive, not slip. You said dive, not slip. Signal all turns, contents may settle during shipping, objects in the mirror are dirtier than they appear, YMWV, HTH, and HAND.
True, I just generally hope common sense applies, especially when you're trying to keep your energy state low. Granted, you could dive without picking up airspeed if you still had throttle to pull out or drag to toss out.
 
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